Anyone know why rap seems more popular than metal?

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ehh, I think Rap is actually closer to country than metal. Metal seems more like its about frustration over certain things in life. Rap seems more like frustration over the situation of life, like country. Keep in mind though, I'm not huge on any kind of music I just mentioned. The only metal I like is Dethklok, the only rap I like is Ludicrous and the only country I like is from the movie The Best Little Whore House in TX.

Ha, I actually kinda compare Rap and Country in the sense that they are musically rather simplistic. Rap is usually "talking" over a constant beat (and often sampled) and Country is simple chords. There isn't enough musical variety in the songs to keep me interested outside a few exceptions like the Beastie Boys; just compare the variety of what you hear in a Beastie Boys' song to whatever the current hit rap song is and it's night and day difference. Metal isn't very appealing to me just due to how it sounds, especially the vocals. And, Metal has changed greatly, Led Zeppelin was considered heavy metal back in the 70s. Even Metallica's harder stuff from before the Black ablum is completely different than modern metal.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Oh is it time for another rap is crap thread?

I thought we moved past this, there's plenty of good rap out there.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Because it's easier to make into club remixes and easier to dance to? Because it's easier to listen to due to its inherently repetitive structure, softer sound and lack of instrumentation? Because it's often less complex? Because it's about wealth or power fantasies more often than metal and can thus appeal to a lower common denominator? Because it's easier to find on the charts? Because it's much more widely spread due to the ease of its production (basically all you need is a guy who can beatbox, and another guy to say the lyrics)?

Honestly, how is this even a question? I much prefer metal over rap music overall, but I have no difficulty identifying why rap is mainstream globally and metal is not. And I live in Finland, the country with the most metal bands per capita in the world.

So what your saying is Rap is music dumbed down?

 

[Blitsie]

Easier genre to get into I guess? I mean, metal is pretty rough especially to the untrained ear compared to rap music.

....and that's all I've got, I mean, what else can I say? Breakdowns are niche? Errr

 

[Worgen]

Ehh, I think Rap is actually closer to country than metal. Metal seems more like its about frustration over certain things in life. Rap seems more like frustration over the situation of life, like country. Keep in mind though, I'm not huge on any kind of music I just mentioned. The only metal I like is Dethklok, the only rap I like is Ludicrous and the only country I like is from the movie The Best Little Whore House in TX.

Ha, I actually kinda compare Rap and Country in the sense that they are musically rather simplistic. Rap is usually "talking" over a constant beat (and often sampled) and Country is simple chords. There isn't enough musical variety in the songs to keep me interested outside a few exceptions like the Beastie Boys; just compare the variety of what you hear in a Beastie Boys' song to whatever the current hit rap song is and it's night and day difference. Metal isn't very appealing to me just due to how it sounds, especially the vocals. And, Metal has changed greatly, Led Zeppelin was considered heavy metal back in the 70s. Even Metallica's harder stuff from before the Black ablum is completely different than modern metal.

I suppose your not right, but I compare rap and country because they tend to be about the same subjects, just with a difference in location. Rap is city and country is... well obvious. But then both seem to be about similar subjects.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Probably because it is.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

im sure metal would have slurs in it, if you could understand what theyre screaming

Who said it doesn't or never did?

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Rap as a genre (and in this case, there are actually a lot of exceptions to the rule) consists of a bunch of people of different ethnicities and backgrounds, but in my experience what unites a lot of them is that many never had the luxury of being able to distance themselves from mainstream culture. They are people for whom fitting in is a matter of emotional or physical survival. It speaks, not just to the black urban audience it was originally designed for, but to anyone who feels betrayed or disadvantaged by the modern world, a world which constantly tells you that material possessions and hedonistic excess is the path to happiness, but who doesn't have the security to simply detach from that world into a nice, safe fantasy. In that sense, rap is more brutal than metal will ever be. Even when some dickhead is just talking about how much money he made selling crack and how he's going to buy loads of nice cars and have sex with your girlfriend (specifically your girlfriend, for some reason) he's still ultimately talking about a world in which that constitutes the only means of winning, and that world is harsh because it is in some ways the one we live in.

Then why isn't punk considered more hardcore considering it has similar roots (albeit more from social class than race)

Also, fuck you, I'll listen to even the shitty one-album thrash metal I grew up with before I'll entertain giving Jay-Zee or 50 Cent on my playlist.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Nah, what you need is rap-metal. A wonderful fusion of funky riffs and ire directed at political failures of the western world. Not mentioning any names as it may be obvious to those those in the know, but anyone who seeks to play the guitar or drums or bass will only benefit from trying out certain unmentioned artists.

Body Count, in other words?

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Marketing. Its not necessarily more popular, its marketed to be popular. But its not to say that metal isn't popular, as plenty of metal concerts are usually packed with fans. Metal doesn't necessarily need marketing, nor are most metal fans installing major sound systems in their cars to rattle the windows of the neighborhood.
I think there's a difference of class in that, not to say that I don't enjoy some rap though my tastes stop at a certain point in the 90s.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

So what your saying is Rap is music dumbed down?

No. That would imply there being some sort of starting level of "intelligence" for all music, and it being dumbed down from there. Rap is simply different in ways that make it easier to get into for mainstream audiences.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Then why isn't punk considered more hardcore considering it has similar roots (albeit more from social class than race)

Also, fuck you, I'll listen to even the shitty one-album thrash metal I grew up with before I'll entertain giving Jay-Zee or 50 Cent on my playlist.

Punk is probably the single most influential music genre of the last 50 years. It was absolutely huge in the 70s and 80s. Like, astronomically huge. Virtually every music genre to come after punk has been influenced by punk in one way or another. I guess you could say punk and hip hop are probably kind of stuck in the same cycle right now in that they've both got too popular, so punk is full of skinny white kids with too much hair gel whining about how their girlfriend broke up with them and hip hop is full of twats just repeating the same phrase for 3 minutes while claiming to be lyrical geniuses. Punk is just further along I guess.

I dunno though, punk was never that dark. When you've got some guy getting up on stage and talking about being an anarchist, that's still a recognizable political statement, you know. It hints at a way the world might get better if we just get rid of all the bad authoritarian stuff in it. With the exception of conscious rappers, rap for the most part seems to be kind of past that point already.

And yeah, for the most part I can't stand American hip hop either. Fortunately, I live in the UK.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Because metal is pretty lame.

Now, there's nothing wrong with being lame, I've spent several decades now doing that and it's working out pretty well, but you've got to own your own lameness instead of pretending everyone else is just too lame to realize how cool the lame stuff you like is.

Okay, now I've alienated half the forum, why have I done that?

Essentially, metal as a genre (and I know there are exceptions to every rule, especially in a genre which is genuinely international and as diverse as metal) consists of a bunch of people, overwhelmingly white (at least in Europe and the USA) and disproportionately middle class, who, for some reason, deliberately set out to distinguish themselves from mainstream culture, who affected a style of dress, music and even aesthetics which emphasised rebellion against tradition and conformity.

Rap as a genre (and in this case, there are actually a lot of exceptions to the rule) consists of a bunch of people of different ethnicities and backgrounds, but in my experience what unites a lot of them is that many never had the luxury of being able to distance themselves from mainstream culture. They are people for whom fitting in is a matter of emotional or physical survival. It speaks, not just to the black urban audience it was originally designed for, but to anyone who feels betrayed or disadvantaged by the modern world, a world which constantly tells you that material possessions and hedonistic excess is the path to happiness, but who doesn't have the security to simply detach from that world into a nice, safe fantasy. In that sense, rap is more brutal than metal will ever be. Even when some dickhead is just talking about how much money he made selling crack and how he's going to buy loads of nice cars and have sex with your girlfriend (specifically your girlfriend, for some reason) he's still ultimately talking about a world in which that constitutes the only means of winning, and that world is harsh because it is in some ways the one we live in.

I mean, by "we" I mean not me specifically, I'm white and have a trust fund so of course I listened to metal, and you bet I thought I was better and deeper and more thoughtful than everyone else because I did. But then, I had the luxury of being allowed to think like that. I chose to be an outsider to mainstream culture, and I did that because it's actually a lot easier than trying to live within it and failing.

See, I like metal because of its energy, it infuses me with a positive go get things done epicly attitude. Rap I like when there's smart rhymes and other linguistic tricks but from a musicianship level while a lot of metal has basis in classical music rap seems to be not nearly as focused on instrumental performance. Having studied piano for years, it feels kinda unfair to metal to even compare it with rap due to how much more work it takes to play all those instruments that well.


With regards to subject matter, I just innately reject that view of winning so to me the kind of american rap you reference is just idiot braggarts talking about mundane crap. Just completely uninteresting. Power metal like stuff from Galneryuus for example is more like an epic of Homer with tales of battles and angels and dragons and all those cool things that are interesting. Money is the least romantic thing to sing about, I want an emerald sword, it has monetary value too cause emeralds are a gem but you don't focus only on that. I guess the point I'm making is that it is more interesting to use metaphorical references to your strugglles than just literally spell them out and be done with it.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Nah, what you need is rap-metal. A wonderful fusion of funky riffs and ire directed at political failures of the western world. Not mentioning any names as it may be obvious to those those in the know, but anyone who seeks to play the guitar or drums or bass will only benefit from trying out certain unmentioned artists.

Body Count, in other words?

Not what I was thinking, but if I do say it, it might ruin future references from others to look into. It seems the genre has a lot of questionable attempts that don't hit the mark, or understand the mark (my idealistic subjective view of the mark at least), which is frustrating to sift through.

 

[Catnip1024]

Could the fact that you hear more rap be more to do with the sort of person who drives around listening to music very loud with the windows down, rather than the nation as a whole?

But other than that - it's an image thing. Metal bands tend not to look attractive enough to be marketable, whereas rappers get away with that "Bad boi" look.

 

[KissingSunlight]

Right now, mainstream music is more of a producers' medium than an artists' medium. Rap is more popular, because mainstream audience like to listen to a song with a catchy hook and a good beat. Which is what hip-hop provides. Not a lot of people listen to rap for the lyrics in the verses. I know I was surprised to find one popular rap song had a verse about how to dress like a gang member.

From "Drop It Like It's Hot": I keep a blue flag hanging out my backside
But only on the left side, yeah that's the Crip side

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Right now, mainstream music is more of a producers' medium than an artists' medium.

I think that's always been the case, though. I look back at all the eras of popular music and wonder if the markets were flooded to oblivion and back the way it is right now with rap and hip hop. We have a lot of notable bands today from those years, so you have to figure there were several metric shittonnes more who weren't successful.

OT
Rap is the new popular music and is the genre that modern over-produced pop music borrows heavily from (that and rock). The reason is that it exploded fairly recently in the last few decades. Now it's popular to the point that my pasty-white upper-class mother listens to 50 Cent and Eminem. It is currently in the phase where mass-appeal and relative novelty have combined to push it to the top and may turn out to be as popular as rock in the long-run. I can see a lot of parallels in how rock started as well. It all brings to mind Elvis' career as a kind of microcosm in how a lot of music created largely by the black community came to the (white) mainstream and how it progressed from there.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

*Reads thread*

Shit, Rap is urban Country. Why haven't I made that connection before? It's even got the same three songs:

This Is How It Is In The City/Country
Let's Get Hammered And Do Something Stupid And/Or Crazy
Oh God, I've Fucked My Life Up Doing Something Stupid And/Or Crazy

These songs are inexplicably popular.

 

[Terminal Blue]

See, I like metal because of its energy, it infuses me with a positive go get things done epicly attitude. Rap I like when there's smart rhymes and other linguistic tricks but from a musicianship level while a lot of metal has basis in classical music rap seems to be not nearly as focused on instrumental performance. Having studied piano for years, it feels kinda unfair to metal to even compare it with rap due to how much more work it takes to play all those instruments that well.

Well, that very much depends. Some metal genres are incredibly easy to play, just stick a bunch of power chords together and have a vocalist who doesn't mind not being able to speak in ten years. Heck, the kind of things which a lot of metal fans tend to interpret as denoting musical "skill" (particularly guitar solos) are actually not too difficult to acquire. If you pick up a guitar and only practice guitar solos, you'll get good at it quite quickly, but you won't be a good guitarist in general.

While you're right in a sense about musicianship, in that rap (as the name suggestS) comes from spoken word poetry and wasn't originally a musical genre at all. I think you're straying a bit close to some commonly held beliefs about electronic music which I intensely disagree with. A lot of people who either play instruments or prefer instrumental music seem to have this idea that making electronic music is incredibly easy or requires no skill, like you just press a button and the computer generates a song for you. I mean, I loathe the whole "cult of the DJ" mentality in electronic music whereby "celebrity" DJs are held up as irreplaceable geniuses or treated like rock stars because on a basic level electronic and instrumental music are different (and also because it's a cancerous relic of the Ibiza club scene, which prejudiced me against electronic music for a long time) but making electronic music still requires technical skill, and while American hip hop may quite often treat music as immaterial that isn't true in all rap genres (it's occuring to me at this point that the word rap is really archaic - it's not uniquely American and in many cases it's not rhythmic or poetry).

But yeah, it took me a very long time to appreciate rap mostly because I grew up surrounded by suburban white kids listening to American hip hop (I suspect that doesn't really happen any more, thank god). I was living in London when grime got really popular, and it was more acceptable to me because of the stronger emphasis on rhythm, because it sounds more like other electronic music and also I guess because I was using to hearing MLE at that point so the lyrical content was more accessible.

On the subject of lyrica content, sure, flexing about money or glorifying violence may not be particularly polite but on a level it's not supposed to be. That's what I'm semi-seriously calling the "brutality", that in rap these things aren't heroic or mythic battles between good and evil, they're stripped of any kind of deeper metaphysical meaning altogether. To put it bluntly, money is "mundane crap" when you have it. Poverty or violence are uninteresting when you've never experienced them. Not implying I have in any real sense, but the older I get the less time I have for escapism in this sense.

 

[Nickolai77]

OT
Rap is the new popular music and is the genre that modern over-produced pop music borrows heavily from (that and rock). The reason is that it exploded fairly recently in the last few decades. Now it's popular to the point that my pasty-white upper-class mother listens to 50 Cent and Eminem. It is currently in the phase where mass-appeal and relative novelty have combined to push it to the top and may turn out to be as popular as rock in the long-run. I can see a lot of parallels in how rock started as well. It all brings to mind Elvis' career as a kind of microcosm in how a lot of music created largely by the black community came to the (white) mainstream and how it progressed from there.

That's the thing, for many music stops being 'cool' if your parents listen to it, so when the current crop of rap fans gets old enough to raise children to become teenagers who start self-identifying with music, rap's going to be seen as old and 'uncool' because mum and dad like it. They'll be some new genre out there to entertain the generation to come, because every genre has its generation.


And as has been said: Metal music is predominantly a genre that mostly appeals to middle class adolescences who don't conform to the mainstream and get a mental kick out of the empowerment feeling you get out of music as well as the escapism element too. Rap probably has a wider base because it has a larger demographic to reach out to than metal does. After all, most metal genres do not aspire to reach the social mainstream anyway, so almost by definition metal can only be a niche genre. That's not a bad thing- it's admirable when musicians make music the way they want to even if they could make far more money by composing songs to reach a broader audience.