Apple Under Investigation for Antitrust Violation

Zig13

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Oct 24, 2008
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Dropping Flash was for a good reason (Adobe were taking too long to get flash working on the ipad)and is probably a good thing too. I'm not a fan of apple but I am even less of a fan of Adobe's monopoly over media presentation on the internet. Particularly as it is pretty inelegant and full of bugs and security vulnerabilities. If you're gonna watch a video on the internet, why can't yo watch a video? Sure flash is important (and ATM irreplaceable) for games, but there are other (possibly better) ways of viewing video online and if apple products lack support for flash then it's going to encourage these. One in particular is being used by the website AlbinoBlacksheep but as it is down ATM, I can't tell you what it is. I'm not baiting - this is what I believe.
 

jvsulliv

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Apr 26, 2010
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Richard Hannay said:
Hashime said:
Apple should not screw the company that made them dominant in the graphics business. Though apple computers are more expensive and completely propriety the industry uses more frequently. Adobe brought apple to glory.
This. Adobe may not necessarily be the hand that feeds Apple right now, but it sure as hell used to be, and I can't see how it benefits Apple to bite that hand now.

EDIT: But apparently there's a letter that'll spell it out for me. I don't suppose you have a link handy, Mr. Sullivan?
there's my handy link in the original posting by Austin MacKenzie, or if you don't feel lik scrolling to the top of the page; http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
 

Dottie

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May 6, 2009
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us Linux guys have dealt with Apple's bullshit forever you guys are lucky.
 

Robby Foxfur

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Sep 1, 2009
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hahaha yes, i don't like you apple, but my laughter has nothing to do with that, you see what happens when you try and be the only people that can make apps for your products?
 

zelda2fanboy

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Oct 6, 2009
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How does choosing for your products to not utilize the services of a monopoly somehow make you guilty of owning a monopoly? Apple has a ton of competitors in the smart phone market and they'll have a lot more in the tablet market in no time. If Apple was willing to utilize Flash, they'd be accused of forming a trust with Adobe. It's a no win situation and they're only being picked on because they're currently popular.
 

Joshic Shin

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Apr 4, 2009
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First, YES! I'm so happy Apple is getting taken down a peg. This is so incredibly great that someone is finally going up to Apple and saying, "No, you made the iPhone and the consumer bought it, you can't keep controlling what they can do with it past that point." This can only lead to good things people.

Second, Job's position on flash is bs. The .swf format is open sourced. Anyone can use it, anyone can play it, and it doesn't cost you anything to make your own compiler into it or out. Flash the program though is not...which suprises you all somehow? It's much like any programming langauge, some people have made tools that make it easier to program in it and they want to be paid for making these tools. You can do it on your own for free if you want though, no one will stop you. Can you do that for the iPhone? No, now you MUST use Apple's SDK. I understand that they want people to use their features sooner, but people can decide what they want, and I assure you that the coolest app will win out in the end. But most of Apple's complaints are silly.

Wanna know why Flash sucks on Mac? Because Apple won't let any program go anywhere near the kernel which would help Flash be more stable. Windows? Pfft, Microsoft doesn't give a crap what you do with their OS, it's not their problem anymore. Their only concern is that it keeps working correctly and that the next one is better. Apple seems to think you are merely renting their precious cargo. It's a very unfair business model they have set up and needs to be dismantled and rebuilt. If you don't believe me, replace Apple with Microsoft and tell me you wouldn't be turning five new shades of pissed off if they did this same stuff with your phone or computer.
 

Richard Hannay

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Nov 30, 2009
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Johnathan Sullivan said:
there's my handy link in the original posting by Austin MacKenzie, or if you don't feel lik scrolling to the top of the page; http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
Thanks. I don't think I buy all of those reasons, but I certainly can't argue with number three (Flash is a security nightmare).

The letter was written from a programmer's perspective I think, rather than from that of a user, which I suppose isn't surprising. (WARNING: Web developer analogy incoming!) Jobs seems as though he's trying to take down Flash the way most (if not all) web developers would like to take down Internet Explorer 6 if they had the power. It's understandable; both IE 6 and (arguably) Flash deserve to go down, but I think is that it's the developer's responsibility to cater to the user in this regard. Is it a pain that often results in functionality comprises? Yes. It's also a fact of life.
 

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
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why can't people who only have one cable and internet choice in their area get an anti-trust suit goin?
 

soapyshooter

That Guy
Jan 19, 2010
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Its fucking obvious, they ban flash because if you can play in browser games why the fuck would anyone buy a gaming app ever again? I mean there are the really cool ones the use the accelerometer/tilt function (Tilt to live, if you have a iSomething, GET IT) and people will still buy those but none the less app market, which makes most of the money off of games would take a huge hit.
 

RRilef

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Jan 5, 2009
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Johnathan Sullivan said:
You guys should really read the open letter Apple has some pretty solid reasons for not allowing Adobe Flash on their handhelds and for the most part I fully support the possition, having had a smartphone that ran on pocket PC which incorporates flash I know first hand the trouble it can cause. And exactly why is Apple being investigated for antitrust violations for this anyway, sure perhaps I can see it if every other phone and handheld had flash but only a few of them do, in addition their doesn't appear to be any plans to remove/ban flash from mac computers. It seems like apple is being picked on because their mobile device lineup is slightly ahead of its time.
I did, and yes some of the reasons were convincing but some of them are complete and utter BS.

1) Saying Flash is proprietary is slightly hypocritical considering the fact that anything on apple's hardware is proprietary as well.

2) Apple says Flash users can't have the full web, and they don't deny it, instead, you have to buy what you could have had for free.

4) Battery life, yes flash may be inefficient but all you need to counter that is a small popup or warning saying that flash sucks up battery.

5) Somethings in Flash are incompatible with the touch screen OS used in ipads and iphones. But some things are not, not to mention not every website would need to be re written, apple could incorporate some method of the hover over.

And about apple being "slightly ahead of its time," what good is ahead of our time. Right now, the basic creation of web content is in Flash because it has been for a long time the best thing to use. HTML 5 may be better but right now, people don't use it. It's not the fault of Flash for this happening, all they did was make a product that people became comfortable with.
 

Quadtrix

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Dec 17, 2008
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I don't really dislike Apple, but I can definitely say I'd run things differently if I controlled them. For starters, I'd make their operating system compatible with all computers, and not just Macs, while simultaneously adding support for AMD processors to accommodate the change. I'd also work with Adobe in hopes of creating a friendlier version of Flash for Apple's mobile devices, rather than blowing them off entirely. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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About time someone smashed Jobs grip on the ipod/phone/pad, his unreasonable control on the product was aggravating, they have a web browser but refuse flash because he's a controlling psychotic. I think he removed 1 or two google programs because they competed with apple apps. Which ..is the POINT.
 

mokes310

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Oct 13, 2008
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Oriana132 said:
And that's why I don't like Apple. I bought a cd off itunes one time...and I can't put it on my mp3 player because it's not an ipod and doesn't play Mpeg4 files. I can't convert it cause it's locked or protected or whatever and every time I try to burn it to an audio cd, itunes crashes.

F*** you and your overbearing control Apple.
Use Sonic Foundry/Sony Acid or Sound Forge to remove their copy protection. It takes a while, but once you learn how to do it, you'll never frett about their mindless DRM ever again.

Nurb said:
why can't people who only have one cable and internet choice in their area get an anti-trust suit goin?
Depending on where you live, you have more than one choice. There are many reasons that I could list, but in essence, the programming involved to offer two or more cable operators off of one franchise network wouldn't be feasable, therefore, it is considered a regulated monopoly.

OT: I own one Apple product, and thankfully, they haven't told me how to use it yet: My Apple t-shirt. When I first heard Palpatine's...I mean, Jobs' comments on Flash, I thought about a pot, a kettle and the color black. When I take a step back, what I really see is a company that is terrified of it's own success, i.e., that their entire business model will collapse if they were to relinquesh even the slightest bit of control. Long argument short: Apple's success is primarily driven by small devices and would faulter if they ever gained market parrity in devices that actually mattered.
 

SaintWaldo

Interzone Vagabond
Jun 10, 2008
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Guys, you really need to do the math on this. Adobe is just pissed that Apple is letting the world know that Flash was always the wrong way to do things, and is just pulling the plug a few years earlier than everyone else, like they did with the floppy. There is an ulterior motive here, and it's Adobe watching the mobile Flash dev tool market dry up because the iPhone eated it. That's not anti-trust; you have to have an acknowledged monopoly to make anti-competitive moves, and it's not proven that the iPad/iPod universe is one.

Apple has ZERO control over whether a given web page uses Flash. They can just decide to not implement the plug-in on their _mobile_ devices. Note that Safari still supports Flash, a hard exculpatory fact conveniently disappeared in all this hurrah. That the omission of Flash from Apple's mobile plan frightens Adobe says more about Adobe's business model than Apple's, imo.


Some fun facts:

HTML 5 is not proprietary.

Flash is.


Objective C is not proprietary.

Flash is.


Development in Objective C for iPhone/iPad is free if you own a Mac, or if you know how to use gcc.

Flash development in Flash is not free no matter what brand of computer you own.

BTW, development on any other mobile platform that _isn't_ Android is proprietary and not free.


Refusing to implement someone else's proprietary methods on your mostly open platform is NOT anti-trust worthy, especially if you can't prove the underlying monopoly. This will get laughed out of court, fast.
 

Lexodus

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Apr 14, 2009
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Have to ask why the fuck this would be illegal. So they didn't enable Flash? Somebody call the
No, seriously. Besides, you complain about Apple's monopoly and not about Adobe's? Double standards. And why does Apple have a monopoly anyway? Because people LIKE their products! Holy shit! No wai!

Upon reading the letter on why Apple has not enabled Flash, I think Adobe have even less of a case than I did before. Wait... surely you can't have less than no case whatsoever?
 

Magnalian

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Dec 10, 2009
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This reminds of an article on Cracked:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html
And I thought Microsoft had the monopoly on being an evil corporation.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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It wound me up every time Jobbs tried to sell his damn products in that open letter. Those reading will likely be well-informed enough to see straight through the crap, or will already be customers.

God.