Are Humans Inherently Selfish?
- Thread starter Ameatypie
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I'm saying all three exist:Kurokami said:
Selfless - Self-Interest - Selfish
My view is that all three exist and all humans, and most likely all living beings, start out with self-interest, but we can push ourselves to either end of the spectrum or work to remain in the middle. Where one sits on the spectrum depends on who one makes pay the majority of the price when making decisions.
Right. But if a person with superior genes uses his advantages to help those with inferior genes, it doesn't work out.ameatypie said:
That's understandable, it was a fairly horrible introduction to my thoughts.SnipErlite said:I thought that was a crack at me before I read your entire postKurokami said:
Yeah, people don't want to think of themselves badly. That's understandable though, nobody for example makes a choice they think isn't the right one (I mean in general, almost always they'll have some justification as to why it was the lesser of two evils).
I know I'm not the best guy ever, I have some hypotheses over my own behaviour which suggests I'm quite a nasty bastard. I find myself leaning towards superiority over others occasionally but I try and batter that down, I know I'm no better than most.
I agree.
I've always pictured myself as... well I suppose somewhat evil in nature, I've always coveted this reputation as it helps avoid dissapointing those around me and can be used as an excuse for any bad actions I take, but in retro spect I've actually committed more good acts than otherwise (although based solely on principles) which has fucked with my self image quite a bit, perhaps you too could find yourself in a similar situation.
In any case to go back on topic, it bothers me that people think that a selfish act cannot be good or that a good act cannot be selfish.
rofl yeah of course they are, there are many people who get over it for whatever reason but for the most part they are simply greedy selfish fools.
If I do something just to benifit myself then I'm being selfish. If I do something to benifit others for no reward and feel good about helping someone then I am being selfless. Just because you find joy in doing good and do more good because of it, that does not make you selfish. Receiving a reward or gaining a benifit doesn't make you selfish either (unless you did it purely for personal gain) This post definatly makes you think so good on you. Also I'm planning on going to IB how is it?
Well to me, it would only be selfish if the person did those things with the intent to gain something. Being selfless would be to do the same deed with no expectation of nor any desire of the possible rewards of self-gratification or recognition. To me, selfishness comes from a conscious choice. Otherwise I would label it as instinct, not selfishness.
Its a *****. A REAL *****. You will work harder than you ever have before in your life, be under constant pressure from your massive workload. Also, you will have to deal with CAS (creativity, Action, Service), which is the IB's attempt to turn LIFE into a big ol' homework assignment. You will have to take SL and HL (standard/higher level) subjects and choosing those is a *****. Physics HL is the biggest ***** of all, with chemistry coming a close second. IB makes life a *****.Blatherscythe said:
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Not to put you off or anything, its a great course and will set you up for the future and all the crap....
Close, but not quite. We help those in our community because helping them is perceived to be beneficial to our own survival and the survival of our genes. Like somebody else in this thread stated, humans are alone among all the species on the planet in that reciprocal altruism has allowed us to form a complex society. In this society, the rules of expected behavior have become so convoluted that the idea of altruism has transcended the rigid favor for a favor system and become an abstract. It has become a goal in of itself, overriding instinctual behaviors like self preservation. This is the reason that trench man can throw himself onto a grenade in good conscience; because the reward of helping the group is more powerful than the fear of hurting his bloodline's survival. Keep in mind that while on some level, the reason for reciprocal altruism is for personal benefit, but the -idea- of altruism has become the goal instead. Thus the logic of how to receive reciprocation from the group when they are dead is moot. It simply doesn't factor in to such high order decision making.Tharwen said:
Not necessarily, as there are humans, who, like other members of certain other species(especially if they are mammalian or insectoid), have an almost complete and utter lack of a concept of or concern for the self. Then again, the whole to which they belong to, let's call it a Corporation, counts as a Person and that person is indeed selfish.
Another way to look at a selfless individual's worldview is this: "I am the world or rather one with it, therefore whatever I do for anyone else in the world benefits me directly or indirectly, even if just to enjoy seeing the reaction of whoever was helped and what ever I do to them harms me directly or indirectly, maybe even by not having bullets left over to defend myself becuase I wasted them on someone who wasn't a threat to me."
Another way to look at a selfless individual's worldview is this: "I am the world or rather one with it, therefore whatever I do for anyone else in the world benefits me directly or indirectly, even if just to enjoy seeing the reaction of whoever was helped and what ever I do to them harms me directly or indirectly, maybe even by not having bullets left over to defend myself becuase I wasted them on someone who wasn't a threat to me."
I've never really liked Dawkins, although he is a very good biologist (or so I have been informed) I find him a little bit combative for my liking. He appears to use the same tactics that some of the more hard-line religious people do to try and sway people to their religion making his brand of atheism seem a bit too "religious" for my liking. Not saying that he is necessarily wrong, just that I am incredibly uncomfortable with his approach, to be honest he's probably one of the reasons that I'm agnostic rather than atheistic.Darwins_Folly said:
At the op: 1) isn't selfish. To get the warm and fuzzy feeling from making others warm and fuzzy is a reward, not a selfish act. I tell my mum I love her all the time, not to make me feel better. But to make her feel better
Humans are inherently selfish because we want the best for ourselves and for our offspring. That's why we fight for resources and throw money at problems.
Humans are inherently selfish because we want the best for ourselves and for our offspring. That's why we fight for resources and throw money at problems.
Yeahh I know I'm not, but I've never heard anyone else hypothesis this (aside from youAmeatypie said:you ain't the only person who thinks like that mate, not by a long way.... Although sometimes I wonder if I, too, am the only person who thinks in a particular way.SnipErlite said:
PS: yes, you can call me pie
)So pie,[sub]heh[/sub] you reckon that everyone thinks a certain way at some point in their life? Or do some people never think of themselves and others like this?
Nah it wasn't that bad dwKurokami said:
Well I wouldn't say you were evil in nature if you end up doing more good than bad. Perhaps you just see more truth than most people - but nonetheless don't think of yourself as evil, that ain't true.
But yeah that's true, they can overlap. But a lot of people see selfish as inherently bad, I suppose.