Are Humans Inherently Selfish?

[Duskwaith]

I know a psychiatrist who strongly argues that everything we do, even helping people, is selfish. Said example is because of the feel good factor of helping someone.

Survival instinct one could argue

yeah, pretty much. As mentioned in other posts though, is an act still selfish if the predominant reason for committing that act is NOT this 'feel good' factor?

On a sub-conscience level it could be likened to the reason why we know that a flame will burn us. so one could argue that if there is a strong enough connection into i think it is the pre-frontal cortex for morals and descisions, that people could intend to do it just to help someone but also at the same time the main trigger for it would be the serotinin and dopamine surge that would follow doing a good deed. Thefore makeing there descisions selfish just on a deeper level.

Kind of like how we love someone such as a wife or girlfriend. The basic reason would be to procreate with them, which on a animalistic level is selfish as we would do anything for someone we love and alot of the time men in particular, would be on a sub-concscience level, be aiming to have sex and pass there genetic material on.

 

[StuckInThe80s]

Selfish and selfless are one in the same. Your example of the soldier who jumps on the grenade is a prime example. I don't think the soldier couldn't live without his friends, but rather, he wants to focus the negative event that is about to transpire on himself.

So yes, humans naturally focus on themselves first, but as mentioned above, it has helped keep our species alive.

My favorite "selfish" act is when people emphasize, "I feel so bad for so-and-so." When people say that, they are actually trying to draw attention to themselves.

 

[Ameatypie]

Not necessarily, as there are humans, who, like other members of certain other species(especially if they are mammalian or insectoid), have an almost complete and utter lack of a concept of or concern for the self. Then again, the whole to which they belong to, let's call it a Corporation, counts as a Person and that person is indeed selfish.

Another way to look at a selfless individual's worldview is this: "I am the world or rather one with it, therefore whatever I do for anyone else in the world benefits me directly or indirectly, even if just to enjoy seeing the reaction of whoever was helped and what ever I do to them harms me directly or indirectly, maybe even by not having bullets left over to defend myself becuase I wasted them on someone who wasn't a threat to me."

That is a good way to think of things... It does provide yet another way to justify things as selfish as well. I am one with the universe, and I do things for the good of the universe, and therefore I am selfish......... lol

Don't get me wrong here, I am not trying to shoot you down - what you say is probably correct...

 

[Ameatypie]

Well to me, it would only be selfish if the person did those things with the intent to gain something. Being selfless would be to do the same deed with no expectation of nor any desire of the possible rewards of self-gratification or recognition. To me, selfishness comes from a conscious choice. Otherwise I would label it as instinct, not selfishness.

To you is what counts here, because knowledge is personal. Plato (a great philosipher) defined knowledge as a "justified true belief". People KNEW the world was flat back in the day. That was their knowledge. This is yours.
Instinct to be selfish?

Page 3 thoughts. "phew!" really getting into this now. My religious studies teacher, who firmly believes that humans are inherantly selfish, is going to be thrilled when I slam down half a fricken ream of paper on his desk and say "here. some light reading for you on your thoughts".

A selfless act is impossible to anyone bar a sociopathic individual. As any act that helps otheres triggers a reward for doing so.

Is that reward the main incentive for doing as you do though? If not, is that selfish?


/snip

Yes studies recently revealed the precursor activity in the brain begins to power up in anticipation of the decision to help. Again New Scientist

The fact your brain is predicting reward long before you make a decision means it is inherently biased.

Oho. It is a fairly major incentive, yes. From this, I am looking to further my own knowledge so I can have a competent and coherant discussion with my RS teacher about this and enjoy myself well doing so. I also want to be able to say that I started this to further knowledge of other people in the escapist community as well, which is a reasonable claim, but not even I know how accurate that is

Is everything we do, in one way or another, to benifit ourselves?

Probably.

In fact there is something to that, I've found myself questioning whether some of the things I do to be nice to people purely because it'll elevate me in their eyes.

As far as I knew I'm the only person who thinks about myself in that way, but it's an interesting theory pie [sub]can I call you pie?[/sub]. I suppose it might be our classic nature, although anyone who does something really kind but anonymous, well I dunno if you can call that selfish (since nobody will know about it) - However, if they do it for the sense of self-satisfaction is that selfish? Hmmm......

you ain't the only person who thinks like that mate, not by a long way.... Although sometimes I wonder if I, too, am the only person who thinks in a particular way.

PS: yes, you can call me pie

Yeahh I know I'm not, but I've never heard anyone else hypothesis this (aside from you )
So pie,[sub]heh[/sub] you reckon that everyone thinks a certain way at some point in their life? Or do some people never think of themselves and others like this?

Oh dear god... this is another discussion altogether! Actually, I will start a thread on that also and see what other people think as soon as I have finished here and worked out how to phrase what I want to say... To answer your question, in short - no. Not everyone thinks from that very philosophical perspective, perhaps because they don't live long enough or they just don't have reason to. However, I would like to think that 99% of the people around me are intellegent enough to think like that, look at their own thoughts, actions, feelings, even exsistence and examine critically why they do things. And thats in short

Selfish and selfless are one in the same. Your example of the soldier who jumps on the grenade is a prime example. I don't think the soldier couldn't live without his friends, but rather, he wants to focus the negative event that is about to transpire on himself.

So yes, humans naturally focus on themselves first, but as mentioned above, it has helped keep our species alive.

My favorite "selfish" act is when people emphasize, "I feel so bad for so-and-so." When people say that, they are actually trying to draw attention to themselves.

I don't quite understand... could you please explain more clearly how selfish and selfless are one and the same?

 

[Brandon237]

Are humans inherently selfish?

We are selfish, in order to survive naturally we must be. However I think technology *warning controversial statement* has the potential to ultimately make humans unselfish. As we no longer need our selfish instincts to survive, we will naturally evolve out of them, as they are redundant.

So yes, at current all humans are selfish on a subconscious level, however this may not last forever, and in an increasingly materialistic world, may may finally find those who are truly unselfish.

 

[SnipErlite]

Yeahh I know I'm not, but I've never heard anyone else hypothesis this (aside from you )
So pie,[sub]heh[/sub] you reckon that everyone thinks a certain way at some point in their life? Or do some people never think of themselves and others like this?

Oh dear god... this is another discussion altogether! Actually, I will start a thread on that also and see what other people think as soon as I have finished here and worked out how to phrase what I want to say... To answer your question, in short - no. Not everyone thinks from that very philosophical perspective, perhaps because they don't live long enough or they just don't have reason to. However, I would like to think that 99% of the people around me are intellegent enough to think like that, look at their own thoughts, actions, feelings, even exsistence and examine critically why they do things. And thats in short

Did I really bold all that? Hm.

Hmm I'd like to debate this with you, you're cool, you're right though. I sure hope most people do, although I'm reasonably sure that everyone has these deep thought epiphanies occasionally.

Although I severely doubt they think about all this as much or as often as us lot [sub]We're the cool ones[/sub]

So how long's the long version?

 

[Boxmeister]

If you try hard enough you can twist anything to be self-serving - emotionally or otherwise... I think Phoebe and Joey from Friends tackled this one once. However even if an act is profitable in some way for a person, does that mean they're really doing it for themselves? I imagine a humble person being satisfied with a win-win instead of just a win for themselves, like a selfish person would think.

Also, we can't ignore those small things we do for people, holding a door open for someone, letting them know they dropped something while walking, getting your spouse a bottle of water, etc. The only upside to these things is recognition of doing something good, most of which is fleeting because you don't even know the person. I'll hold a door open for an elderly woman because it makes her life a little easier, I'll give her a smile, say you're welcome, and move on, and if she doesn't even look me in the eye, I doubt I'll care. I may feel good about doing a good deed, and while that may be considered selfish, all in all I really did it to help her out. So by and large it was a selfless act.

 

[Ameatypie]

Yeahh I know I'm not, but I've never heard anyone else hypothesis this (aside from you )
So pie,[sub]heh[/sub] you reckon that everyone thinks a certain way at some point in their life? Or do some people never think of themselves and others like this?

Oh dear god... this is another discussion altogether! Actually, I will start a thread on that also and see what other people think as soon as I have finished here and worked out how to phrase what I want to say... To answer your question, in short - no. Not everyone thinks from that very philosophical perspective, perhaps because they don't live long enough or they just don't have reason to. However, I would like to think that 99% of the people around me are intellegent enough to think like that, look at their own thoughts, actions, feelings, even exsistence and examine critically why they do things. And thats in short

Did I really bold all that? Hm.

Hmm I'd like to debate this with you, you're cool, you're right though. I sure hope most people do, although I'm reasonably sure that everyone has these deep thought epiphanies occasionally.

Although I severely doubt they think about all this as much or as often as us lot [sub]We're the cool ones[/sub]

So how long's the long version?

oh lolz - nah that bolding business was me. sorry Ima start another thread now on that kind of question - its going to be a little different though, more asking the question "how do we know?". about EVERYTHING. Im not sure how popular it would be[sub]only the "cool" people like us would want to look at it, hey? [/sub], but its worth starting and seeing what other people think. I will quote you again in a bit with a link for ya.

 

[Shockolate]

I know I am.

 

[Ameatypie]

I know I am.

You are very honest with yourself.

 

[SnipErlite]

oh lolz - nah that bolding business was me. sorry Ima start another thread now on that kind of question - its going to be a little different though, more asking the question "how do we know?". about EVERYTHING. Im not sure how popular it would be[sub]only the "cool" people like us would want to look at it, hey? [/sub], but its worth starting and seeing what other people think. I will quote you again in a bit with a link for ya.

Ah cool

Yeah that's another thing I wonder now and then, do we really know anything.........well, we don't. To half quote the Matrix all reality is is electrical signals interpreted by our brain.

Hey what's with the "" around cool? lol

Thanks I'll check it out when ya do

 

[Ameatypie]

oh lolz - nah that bolding business was me. sorry Ima start another thread now on that kind of question - its going to be a little different though, more asking the question "how do we know?". about EVERYTHING. Im not sure how popular it would be[sub]only the "cool" people like us would want to look at it, hey? [/sub], but its worth starting and seeing what other people think. I will quote you again in a bit with a link for ya.

Ah cool

Yeah that's another thing I wonder now and then, do we really know anything.........well, we don't. To half quote the Matrix all reality is is electrical signals interpreted by our brain.

Hey what's with the "" around cool? lol

Thanks I'll check it out when ya do

O 4 teh lolz I forgot to post back! lol, its quite interesting already, take a look: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.185416-Poll-but-I-KNOW-the-earth-is-flat

 

[SnipErlite]

O 4 teh lolz I forgot to post back! lol, its quite interesting already, take a look: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.185416-Poll-but-I-KNOW-the-earth-is-flat

Already posted my friend