Are we gamers our own worst enemy?

[Bellvedere]

Game developers are never going to impress every one. The bigger the audience, the more people that could hate the game. Even if people like a game they probably won't like everything. Dev's shouldn't be intimidated by the fact that someone won't like their game to the point of not even making something like they're an insecure high schooler.

It's no worse than any other industry. I think it just seems worse because gamers can attack and blame each other as well:

"X Fanboy! You're just trying to convince yourself you like it because you spent money on it and always talk about defending X"

"You wanted to dislike it before even seeing it!"

"I bet you don't even own X console"

"Thing I don't like! Everyone that doesn't boycott the game now is everything wrong with game consumers"

 

[Mcgeezaks]

It's Valves fault, not gamers. They ended HL2:EP2 with a cliffhanger and never bothered to finish the story of a VERY beloved series, even if they are stupid to think that releasing Half Life 3 would end in disappointment because of gamers expectations, they're the ones who created the expectations.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I thought that was just humanity in general.

I just want to know what happened to Eli.

Um, isn't he dead? Like, really dead? Like, his story ended thanks to be murdered in front of your very eyes dead?

Nah, they could always jerk the knife in further and have his mind literally absorbed into the space grub's collective mind and then used later to jerk Alex around on a hook.

 

[Erttheking]

What? The people who regularly lash out at developers, refuse to let their favorite games be criticized, regularly stereotype entire fandoms while getting upset if gamers as a whole get stereotyped, act as gatekeepers towards outside groups while still complaining about how they were ostracized as they were younger, and generally just being toxic and alienating?

...nah...why would you say that?

 

[Hawki]

Nah, they could always jerk the knife in further and have his mind literally absorbed into the space grub's collective mind and then used later to jerk Alex around on a hook.

Considering how effective the "Breencasts" were as a storytelling device in Half-Life 2, that's not a bad idea actually...

One idea that'll never come to fruition, because, well, y'know...

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Valve can rationalize it anyway they want it, but Half-Life 3 doesn't exist because they didn't make it.

In this case, this is the truth. The obvious reality is that Valve's (in)famous "flat" hierarchy is not an effective structure if you want to release games on a somewhat regular schedule. It is not Half-Life fans' fault that HL3 never materialized, it is the fault of Valve and their collective inability to actually make the game.

 

[Nazulu]

Don't blame people for having standards, blame Valve for being pussies. Half-Life 1 is one of the best damn games of all time, Half-Life 2 was a disappointment but revolutionary, it's a crying shame that they aren't making a third one

It would be like if the Beatles stopped making music after their second album and opened a record store

Exactly. As I said in that thread you linked OP, they should want to do it as artists. I'm sure they know full well now they are going to disappoint many no matter what they do, it's pointless to dwell on these facts, just try your best and that's the best you can do.

I love Half Life myself, and while HL2 and it's chapters didn't have the same impact on me, I'd like them to go for a 3rd as well. They should do it just for fun, otherwise don't do it.

 

[DoPo]

I wonder if gamers who claim to want HL3 have even stopped to think what they?d expect from one?

A conclusion to the story.

From the article:

The interview was actually conducted in 2015, but Game Informer's Andrew Reiner has spent quite a bit of time since trying to confirm the information he was given with another source. After being unable to do so, he shelved the interview until now, when it was published with a warning to take everything within with a grain of salt.

This shouldn't have been published. Unverifiable rumors aren't news. This is why nobody takes games journalism seriously. I still believe in Half-Life 3. Hype is a stupid reason not to make a game. I'll quote what I said in another thread.

I agree. It was an article that literally changes nothing about the state of the game as far as people who would be playing it are concerned. The article can more or less be summed up as "reminder: Half-Life 3 still doesn't exist". And suddenly it's some sort of big news that gets parroted by a bunch of sites and a bunch of people start discussing it, as if the discussions aren't going around in the same circles they've been going on for years.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I mean, yeah? This is a group of people that sent death threats to a guy who claimed games made you violent. And not just Jack Thompson.

Sure, #not all, but that certainly didn't help the situation.

 

[sanquin]

It doesn't help that Half Life 2 was a good story bolted onto the most generic shooter I've played in ages.

*gasps from the crowd*

No, really, I'm serious!

The gunplay was bog standard outside of some occasional gravity gun shenanigans, It was constantly interrupted by annoying physics puzzles where you're unable to proceed until you find all the bricks/barrels of air/refrigerators to make a ramp work, the boat chase segment and highway from hell segments went on for WAY too long and weren't all that fun, etc.

Yeah, Ravenholm was fun. Trying to maintain your ammo supplies by using traps and tons of gravity gun shenanigans was awesome, and the place had a lot of good ambiance.

But everything else just left me feeling "meh".

So I highly doubt that 3 would have turned out all that great. :s

That's because it's an almost 13 year old game... When it came out, it was awesome. These days it's a very standard fps, but what do you expect for such an old game? I'm sure they'll say the same about Titanfall 2 or Overwatch in 10 years.

 

[BrawlMan]

Valve can rationalize it anyway they want it, but Half-Life 3 doesn't exist because they didn't make it.

Exactly, it's sounds more like Valve's problem then any gamers at fault here. As for your question; in some ways, yes. With all the crap that goes on YouTube or places like Channel Awesome. With shitty personalities like Review Tech, Movie Bob, Angry Joe, and Nostalgia Critic (okay, the last one is not a gamer, but carries the selfish everyone should praise me for being an asshole attitude) I don't necessarily blame you.

I mean Rich from Review Tech harassed someone for wearing a Yoshi hat E3 2014 for Christ sake! This wasn't harmless either, his psychotic devoted fan-base attacked Yoshiller (the guy with the Yoshi hat) with death threats and harassment. The worse part was that fucking Bastard actually encouraged while still claiming that he was a good guy or some kind of saint.

I know gaming in general has its problems, but this whole attack each other and "outsiders"over petty shit has to stop. It's like ever since we got rid of Jack Thompson, gamers were at each others throats more now than ever without having a target punching bag in to the picture. That said, there are good people in the gaming world that care and don't act like assholes at all or all the time. Not mention being more inclusive. You are always going to have assholes no matter what media you are into, but just be excellent dudes to yourselves, and each other.

3rd is game media/journalism. People get too riled up and angry and lash out for no reason at meaningless bullshit, while clickbate writers laugh all the way to the Gaming expo to get free room/board and food and games and merch.

I've noticed this problem back then, even in 2006-2007. I remember when DMC, RE, and FF fans throwing a huge ***** fit when they found their favorite franchises weren't going to be Sony exclusives anymore.

 

[KaraFang]

It doesn't help that Half Life 2 was a good story bolted onto the most generic shooter I've played in ages.

*gasps from the crowd*

No, really, I'm serious!

The gunplay was bog standard outside of some occasional gravity gun shenanigans, It was constantly interrupted by annoying physics puzzles where you're unable to proceed until you find all the bricks/barrels of air/refrigerators to make a ramp work, the boat chase segment and highway from hell segments went on for WAY too long and weren't all that fun, etc.

Yeah, Ravenholm was fun. Trying to maintain your ammo supplies by using traps and tons of gravity gun shenanigans was awesome, and the place had a lot of good ambiance.

But everything else just left me feeling "meh".

So I highly doubt that 3 would have turned out all that great. :s

Can I ask, when did you play it? Was this when it 1st came out or a few years later... What date did you play HL2?

I only ask as most of the now called "Generic" shooter mechanics are FROM HL2's implementations. Hell, we hadn't had characters with emotional expression until the HL2 engine and HL2 showed how it could be done.

I'm just curious.

On topic, I don't see how gamers are our own worst enemy. Game creation and the selling of games (ie, the whole industry) runs on supply and demand. Ie, we ask for something and it is produced. That hasn't changed.

Now, like movies, there is specifically the games that are created due to an artistic vision. However, IMO: when a company/creator of said game (like Valve HAVE been doing for many years) starts pandering to the fans because they realise they have a popular "product" they do need to listen to the fans of said series and try to integrate what they want and provide what they want. The art and vision can remain, but they need to try and at least accommodate the fanbase.

on HalfLife = They never finished the story, the fanbase still exists and is massively popular (like FFantasy fans). Just do HL3 and finish the story. It may never meet peoples expectations, but in that case just make the game as best you can and try to put in what works from the fans. Tis all you can do.

They won't make it though, because Steam is making them all the money they could ever want, its practically (despite other services) the equivalent of Google for the game distribution world on PC, and now slowly consoles. Valve don't need to make games. It's got nothing to do with us at all as "gamers" and our "demands" or "expectations". They simply do not need the money HL3 would provide them.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

It doesn't help that Half Life 2 was a good story bolted onto the most generic shooter I've played in ages.

Can I ask, when did you play it? Was this when it 1st came out or a few years later... What date did you play HL2?

I only ask as most of the now called "Generic" shooter mechanics are FROM HL2's implementations. Hell, we hadn't had characters with emotional expression until the HL2 engine and HL2 showed how it could be done.

I'm just curious.

I honestly don't remember. I THINK it was a year or two after it came out, but I honestly can't remember.

It was good when I first played it, but I have no desire to revisit it. Heck I remember trying to play it again a few years after the first time and just gave up at the boat chase scene because it just kept dragging on and on.

Emotively, it was good, but I felt the original Deus Ex still had it beat, except for animation quality.

I think the reason I use the word "generic" is because none of the weapons felt "special" or "interesting" aside from the gravity gun, which was often limited in use outside of ravenholm. Well, ok, and the antlion gland. That was nifty.

 

[Asita]

I wonder if gamers who claim to want HL3 have even stopped to think what they?d expect from one? ?Where?s Half-Life 3? is basically autonomic phrase spewed from the mouth of any gamer 27 years old and up, but the relevance? I don?t think most have a clue what they want, and far be it from a developer to invest the millions upon MILLIONS it?d take to assume and deliver something that will ultimately be torn to shreds for everything it?s ?not? and ?was supposed to be after all this time.?

I kinda concluded that HL3 wasn't going to happen years ago, but since you asked:

I want to know why the Borealis was a gamechanger. I want to see the Resistance and humanity as a whole get its second wind in the wake of City 17 and the breeding screen's destruction[footnote]And get your dang head out of that gutter! I'm talking psychological ramifications, not titillation. With enforced sterility humanity had no future, and in the aftermath of Half-Life 2 they just had that future restored to them, giving them real hope for probably the first time in upwards of a decade. And hope is an incredible motivator which I see as potentially explosively growing the ranks of the Resistance[/footnote]. To see Gordon and Alyx avenge Eli's death. To see a strong push against the Combine and the Combine's eventual retaliation. To see Adrian Shepard mobilized either as a boon to the resistance or the Combine's response to Gordon Freeman. To see humanity take the fight to the Combine. To drive my enemies before me and hear the lamentations of their giant...psychic...grub...things. You get the idea. I want closure for the story.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It's Valves fault, not gamers. They ended HL2:EP2 with a cliffhanger and never bothered to finish the story of a VERY beloved series, even if they are stupid to think that releasing Half Life 3 would end in disappointment because of gamers expectations, they're the ones who created the expectations.

Can't say I disagree with that. They can do whatever they want, but it still doesn't dismiss the fact that they really, ultimately dropped the ball. A near-monopolistic digital distribution outfit doesn't exactly change that, no matter how good it is.

But then, maybe this heresay is all just a smokescreen and they're still making it, little by little like Ezekiel implied.

 

[Worgen]

HYPE

-No Man's Sky: How the fuck did anyone think this was going to be the most amazing game ever? I can understand space enthusists being all over it. It was basically a niche exploration game at best (even if it had delivered). How much of the gamer population really digs just exploring? Yeah, it's cool and all to come upon a planet with basically large dinosaurs (which isn't in the game I realize). But there's nothing really to actually do, and nothing in the gameplay videos were actually doing stuff. How long will that hold the average gamer's interest really? Those moments shown were great but there's only going to be so many of those moments and being a huge galaxy and randomly generated, how much uninteresting time and gameplay will be between each of those great moments? No Man's Sky always sorta felt like it would be an extremely stretched out version of Journey in space.

I can tell you exactly why there was so much hype for No mans sky. Cause for some reasons those open world survival games are almost a free ride to print money. They are stupidly popular. No Man's Sky did something no other one at the time had really done. Instead of taking place on one planet, it took place on many planets. People really want to experience something like that. The trailers for it looked really good, too bad they were full of lies.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Yes, mostly in the sense that gamers these days have unreasonable expectations and standards from what they want from games.

I also don't like the Gaming Community's increadibly negative outlook on the AAA scene. Its almost like every single known AAA developer and thier games are on everyone's shitlist.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

And I also blame people like Yatzhee and Jim Sterling for ruining gaming and fostering this utter negative outlook in gaming.

Appearently playing Halo or a Nintendo game is not good anymore because the companies they belong to are the devil

 

[BrawlMan]

And I also blame people like Yatzhee and Jim Sterling for ruining gaming and fostering this utter negative outlook in gaming.

Apparently playing Halo or a Nintendo game is not good anymore because the companies they belong to are the devil

I wouldn't blame Sterling, at least he admits his faults and is usually open minded. With Yahtzee, I can see where you're coming from. I was never a Halo fan, but I never shat on people for liking the series. But that was less Yahtzee, and more everyone else jumping on the "hate it, because it's popular bandwagon". Yahtzee just "officially" validated his opinion with other like minded individuals. Ironically, I remember when people were excited for COD4, because it was something different. Now that the COD series is still popular, it is now that is "everything" wrong with gaming and the new hate target.


Yahtzee is a hyprocrite. He seems to rag on Nintendo even when they do something right or not. For example his E3 2014 video. I'll take a quote right out of his dethroning moment of suck page.

Yahtzee's handling of E3 2014 was kind of lame in and of itself, but his vitriol against (surprise, surprise) Nintendo shows that his hay parachute has fallen apart, and he's grasping at individual straws just to save face. His primary constituents are that Nintendo wanks the Mario and Zelda franchises relentlessly, whilst the majority of the show was taken by stellar entries like Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., Splatoon, Yoshi's Woolly World, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and more, with only Splatoon getting a bare mention by him; he complains about the overload of cinematic cutscenes with nary a demo, whereas the latter was the entirety of Nintendo's performance, with every automated sequence being in-engine; and he omits the Treehouse completely, where the fans got to see more of these lovely games in action. Bad enough on its own, but when added to his history of anti-Nintendo sentiment, it paints a very ugly picture on how much of a hypocrite he's become. Ben Croshaw, do the world a favor and slice the "professional" out of your "professional troll" title if this is how you're going to be. ---Cerotech Omega

Thank you, Omega.

Yahtzee other worst moment with Nintendo was his Mad World review. It's obvious he barely played the game, and it was more of an opinion piece of how much motion controls sucks, and how Nintendo and the Wii suck for making them a fad. Now he did have some point about motion controls, Yahtzee just had to be an asshole about it. Plus, motion controls worked in Mad World for the most part, and even the wonky parts of it could be worked around. The review wasn't even a review. If it was called "Why I Don't like the Wii Nor Motion Controls", then I would be less a hard time about it.