"Any world that lets a dragon be CEO of a corporation, and in which a person can drive a car by thought alone is one I long for."
Seconded
Seconded
Are you sick of fantasy-based role-playing games?
- Thread starter Snaggly Pete
- Start date
The setting Fallout 1/2 (it was a re-make/sequel of Wasteland, yes, but who played that anyway) was a shining example of telling some RPG conventions to go.. do something bad to themselves, even though its game play still allowed the player to advance GAMBLING SKILL, by killing hundreds of Deathclaws.
In all honesty, fantasy setting is not that bad, if it's done well, makes sense, and has a cleverly written story set against it, but seriously, when was the last time that happened? Witcher could have done that (the books certainly did), but it turned out to be such a trite piece of garbage, I still feel bad about trying it out. Besides, nearly all RPG games have gameplay that either blatantly rips off Dungeons & Dragons (which in this escapist's opinion is The Evil), or Final Fantasy (also the Evil), unless it is ripping off Diablo, that is.
I really appreciated what Bioware attempted to do with Jade Empire, even though the execution was flawed (and I kept thinking "Avatar" the whole time), but I hardly see any other company trying to do anything in the same vein.
Partially, it's because the developers (or more properly, the executives who hire them) are lazy and don't want to take risks. "Hey milking Tolkien's corpse worked pretty well so far, so let's keep doing it!" Seriously, can we please get another author? Can someone please make a game in setting inspired by Roger Zelazny, or, god forbid, Frank Herbert? Instead of generic Medieval setting (none of which, by the by, are anything like ANY of the periods of real Middle Ages) put the player in, say Renaissance Italy (which is a period with more drama than HBO and Lifetime channels combined)?
And, of course, partially it's because of us, the RPG players. We are so starved for smart innovative games in our beloved genre, we jump at anything with a high enough budget to look shiny that has a character generation screen.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion got insanely positive reviews all over the net, sold millions of copies, etc, and it's, objectively a boring and repetitive game with 0% innovation and all quality replaced by quantity (ok, so the Dark Brotherhood quests were more or less good, but that's about the only part of the enormous game that I didn't want to flood with napalm).
With game budgets hanging around 30 million USD each, and market share for RPG titles being really small, compared to First Person Shooters, the publishers won't give money for a high-risk project, and innovation is ALWAYS high-risk. Unproven technology, unproven core mechanic, unproven setting, and even unproven story types (anything that isn't "save-the-world" or "avenge-your-father/brother/teacher/puppy/computer mouse") all get shot down, and the same games with minuscule variations get remade over and over again.
Coincidentally, that makes the problems with them more and more obvious, so, hopefully, one day the customers will rebel and the game companies get off their asses. Until then - fight your orcs, cast your spells, and grind til your arms fall of, cause there isn't much besides this out there.
In all honesty, fantasy setting is not that bad, if it's done well, makes sense, and has a cleverly written story set against it, but seriously, when was the last time that happened? Witcher could have done that (the books certainly did), but it turned out to be such a trite piece of garbage, I still feel bad about trying it out. Besides, nearly all RPG games have gameplay that either blatantly rips off Dungeons & Dragons (which in this escapist's opinion is The Evil), or Final Fantasy (also the Evil), unless it is ripping off Diablo, that is.
I really appreciated what Bioware attempted to do with Jade Empire, even though the execution was flawed (and I kept thinking "Avatar" the whole time), but I hardly see any other company trying to do anything in the same vein.
Partially, it's because the developers (or more properly, the executives who hire them) are lazy and don't want to take risks. "Hey milking Tolkien's corpse worked pretty well so far, so let's keep doing it!" Seriously, can we please get another author? Can someone please make a game in setting inspired by Roger Zelazny, or, god forbid, Frank Herbert? Instead of generic Medieval setting (none of which, by the by, are anything like ANY of the periods of real Middle Ages) put the player in, say Renaissance Italy (which is a period with more drama than HBO and Lifetime channels combined)?
And, of course, partially it's because of us, the RPG players. We are so starved for smart innovative games in our beloved genre, we jump at anything with a high enough budget to look shiny that has a character generation screen.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion got insanely positive reviews all over the net, sold millions of copies, etc, and it's, objectively a boring and repetitive game with 0% innovation and all quality replaced by quantity (ok, so the Dark Brotherhood quests were more or less good, but that's about the only part of the enormous game that I didn't want to flood with napalm).
With game budgets hanging around 30 million USD each, and market share for RPG titles being really small, compared to First Person Shooters, the publishers won't give money for a high-risk project, and innovation is ALWAYS high-risk. Unproven technology, unproven core mechanic, unproven setting, and even unproven story types (anything that isn't "save-the-world" or "avenge-your-father/brother/teacher/puppy/computer mouse") all get shot down, and the same games with minuscule variations get remade over and over again.
Coincidentally, that makes the problems with them more and more obvious, so, hopefully, one day the customers will rebel and the game companies get off their asses. Until then - fight your orcs, cast your spells, and grind til your arms fall of, cause there isn't much besides this out there.
If you think that sixty or so pages describing Bilbo Baggins's birthday party, and turgid prose that reads like a description of an ordnance survey map, equates to literary genius, then yes, Tolkien is a god damned genius.runtheplacered said:
Of course I am. Yet, in constrast, the only few story-driven space-operas I've ever really fallen in love with were Lylat Wars, Freelancer and Mass Effect; two of which aren't even RPGs! I suppose the whole 'fantasy' setting thing seems to draw in the best (and yes, worst) writers.
I've only read the second book in the LOTR trilogy, and honestly I didn't even know the battle of Helm's Deep had started until it was nearly over. The setting was very well detailed and all, but the story itself got completely buried beneath those details to the point where I wasn't even sure what it was anymore. The Hobbit was much better IMO.
I thought I was sick of JayRPGs. I only remember having fun with FF7 and haven't played those much since then. But now I toked the chance and played Lost Odyssey. Its as JayRPG as you can get it but it is my pick of game of the year by far. Of course metal gear or something else will own it later, but you really got to play through the story in Lost Odyssey. Its the very first game that made me shed tears, and not in an angry kind of way.
But about RPGs in general, yes I'm tired of orcs and shit. And I would like a RPG where you interact with players much more, where the sword is not the only solution.
But about RPGs in general, yes I'm tired of orcs and shit. And I would like a RPG where you interact with players much more, where the sword is not the only solution.
I don't think it's fantasy you're sick of. I think you're sick of cliche.
I'll admit, alot of fantasy RPGs are really... overdone, but I think maybe you may be looking in the wrong place. Alot of futuristic RPGs aren't generally as RPG-ey, and tend to try and be something else, which makes them less enjoyable to me. So I stay in fantasy ^-^;;
Why don't you take a look at SteamBot Chronicles.
or Blue dragon, or Lost Oddysey?
I'll admit, alot of fantasy RPGs are really... overdone, but I think maybe you may be looking in the wrong place. Alot of futuristic RPGs aren't generally as RPG-ey, and tend to try and be something else, which makes them less enjoyable to me. So I stay in fantasy ^-^;;
Why don't you take a look at SteamBot Chronicles.
or Blue dragon, or Lost Oddysey?
I'm surprised not a single person has mentioned the Earthbound/Mother series.
I thought Earthbound was one of the most original RPG's when I was a lad and absolutely adored the modern day setting.
Then we have Mother 3 which will have it's 2 year old birthday in a matter of days and has not seen the light of day in any English speaking country. Mother 3 seems to have improved the series in almost every way. The humor, combat and story all seem to have taken a turn for the BEST MODERN DAY RPG EVER status.
Thankfully some amazing people [http://mother3.fobby.net/] have been working hard on a fan translation that I eagerly await to arrive this fall, hopefully..........
I thought Earthbound was one of the most original RPG's when I was a lad and absolutely adored the modern day setting.
Then we have Mother 3 which will have it's 2 year old birthday in a matter of days and has not seen the light of day in any English speaking country. Mother 3 seems to have improved the series in almost every way. The humor, combat and story all seem to have taken a turn for the BEST MODERN DAY RPG EVER status.
Thankfully some amazing people [http://mother3.fobby.net/] have been working hard on a fan translation that I eagerly await to arrive this fall, hopefully..........
"RPG stands for Role-Playing Game. That basically means a game where you play the role of a fictional character or group of characters in a not-necessarily-but-usually fictional setting. Where in this does it explicitly say levels have to be included?"
It doesn't, but as you said ANY game with a main character and a decent story is a role-playing game. The term "RPG" when applied to video or PC games has to mean something more specific. We call games like Final Fantasy RPGs because they tend to focus ONLY on the character and setting without the action elements present in other games. This is why Zelda is not an RPG. Yes, it has good characters and a deep story (comparatively anyway) but the gameplay is primarily action oriented.
"What I want to see less of is learning being represented by numbers increasing when it happens anyway all on its own."
That's an action game my friend. "By the numbers" combat and growth is the only thing separating RPGs from other genres. Personally, I'm a fan of action RPGs where the gameplay is action based, but your character gains stats as well. Something like Zelda 2 or Crystalis. Still, a pure RPG can't have action without being labeled a hybrid.
Where I'm going with this is that while RPGs DO fall into the same pattern, it's that very pattern that defines them as a genre. I'm willing to assume that the TC was referring to the genre, and not all games with a main character and a story.
It doesn't, but as you said ANY game with a main character and a decent story is a role-playing game. The term "RPG" when applied to video or PC games has to mean something more specific. We call games like Final Fantasy RPGs because they tend to focus ONLY on the character and setting without the action elements present in other games. This is why Zelda is not an RPG. Yes, it has good characters and a deep story (comparatively anyway) but the gameplay is primarily action oriented.
"What I want to see less of is learning being represented by numbers increasing when it happens anyway all on its own."
That's an action game my friend. "By the numbers" combat and growth is the only thing separating RPGs from other genres. Personally, I'm a fan of action RPGs where the gameplay is action based, but your character gains stats as well. Something like Zelda 2 or Crystalis. Still, a pure RPG can't have action without being labeled a hybrid.
Where I'm going with this is that while RPGs DO fall into the same pattern, it's that very pattern that defines them as a genre. I'm willing to assume that the TC was referring to the genre, and not all games with a main character and a story.
Agreed. I never said I LIKED the RPG formula, I just wanted to make it clear that it means something specific.
I think a genuinely cyberpunk RPG would be great, as would an espionage RPG - and by espionage, I mean John LeCarre, not Ian Fleming.
Oh god! Now I really want to play "The Spy Who Came in from The Cold."
Oh god! Now I really want to play "The Spy Who Came in from The Cold."
This is why I really enjoy Persona 3. It's a modern setting and even the soundtrack reflects the modern setting.
Or President of the UCAS. Poor Dunkelzahn, rest his soul.Khell_Sennet said:
So yeah, I want a proper Shadowrun MMO please.
This was about my point. Tolkien shaped fantasy into what it is today but he added a whole lot ofcruft to it as well, like excessive recounting of backstory (dude, ease up, I like passing references to things I will never understand) and a straight up and down Good-Evil conflict. I don't mind this kind of fantasy being around but I don't want to have a roughly 50/50 chance of reading such fantasy if I were to randomly choose a fantasy book.RobPlumpton said:
Creating your own language is linguistic genius, not literary. So mad props to him but not literary props.