Art and Relativism

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Thaius

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Mar 5, 2008
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In recent discussion about video games as an artistic medium (I know some of you are tired of that topic, but bear with me: this is broader than that), a common answer is that art is subjective. Not only in that different opinions on a given work can be opposite and both valid, but in that the very definition of what art is, what a work of art is, and what an art form is, is completely subjective to the person. I find this interesting, and not in a good way.

I know that relativism has become a popular idea in our culture. We say that all religions are basically the same and should get along, that morality is only defined by individual values, and even sometimes that even an unbelief in something so absolute as gravity makes it "true for you." Besides the obvious logical flaws that occur when taking this worldview too far, I think we've started using it as a cop-out. When someone disagrees with you on the status of video games as art, you don't need to argue, you can simply say, "Well art is subjective, so as long as I believe it is, it's all okay." This has to stop.

Fact is, words have meaning. This is different from a static definition, in that meaning changes with societal, cultural, and technological advancements. Words are simply linguistic cues with which we define a concept. Our language has the word "art," and we have come up with various meanings for it. Sure, it is really difficult to come up with one absolute definition of art. But now that we've taken on such a subjective viewpoint, we no longer even try. We simply explain one's definition of art as being "true for them," and move on without actually getting anywhere. But there are some things that have been agreed to be present in "art." Art is designed with intention. Art is the product of creativity. Art can be seen by one person as good and another as bad, and both opinions are valid (note that this statement does not include a given work's artistic status, only its quality). These are things that define a work of art; it's not a full, complete, and comprehensive definition, but it definitely is a lot more than just, "Art is what you think it is."

My point is simply that we need to stop using relativism as a cop-out to avoid conflict on the subject of art. "Art" is a culturally vital topic, and without some sort of way to tell what it is, it means nothing. For that matter, without definite inclusion as an "art form," growing mediums like video games are held back by a lack of perceived social and cultural relevance. Even if we can never figure out exactly what art is, we need to make as secure a meaning as we can, else the term and its surrounding concepts lose all importance.

So Escapists, what do you think? Is the very meaning of art nothing more than an ambiguous, abstract concept? Or is art a particular thing that must be observed, created, and valued?
 

default

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Apr 25, 2009
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Art is definitely subjective, and there is nothing wrong with that. Society doesn't have to be totally clear cut all the time.

Most people I know think that being able to draw a perfectly proportioned female nude or paint an incredible landscape is art. I disagree, art is more than being able to create a picture.

Art to me is about expressing emotion and ideas through visual and symbolic means. This is incredibly difficult to comprehend and percieve, much less talk about, so bear with me.

Art is the visual manifestation of emotion and imagination. Is there any depth or story or emotion behind that life drawing of a gorgeous volumptuous young woman? If not, it's not art. It's just a pretty picture. Does this portrait of an old man symbolise or communicate anything? What do his eyes say to the viewer? What kind of things about his life can you communicate to the viewer.

In this sense, I don't believe most games are art.

This is my view, anyway.
 

Patrick Dare

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Jul 7, 2010
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Just the other day I was reading a post on the forums here about music (someone was asking for good music) and people kept criticising the OP saying music is subjective so you can't have "good" music (or some such nonsense).

I think it's true that art is semi-subjective but I don't think you can just say "art is subjective so anything can or cannot be art to anyone". I think what is good or bad art is more subjective than art itself. Digi7 said it has to be more than just a picture to be art. I would say it's still art, just bad art (according to him) and someone else might consider it good art. Maybe it invokes emotions in that person that it doesn't in Digi7 or maybe they just like the picture whereas Digi7 doesn't. For example I think those paintings where people just throw paint at a canvas are stupid but I'd still call them art (I just think they're bad art).

1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings

pretty broad definitions.
 

Thaius

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Patrick Dare said:
I think what is good or bad art is more subjective than art itself.
That is pretty much my stance as well. The quality of art is subjective, but the definition of what is an is not art is not. There are certain things we know about artistic works, and those things are what make a work "art." Things like creative intent, skill, and emotional or symbolic value, among other things. Just because I didn't like the second movie in the Bourne trilogy doesn't mean it's not art: film as a medium is considered an art form, meaning that quality has nothing to do with whether or not a given movie is art. Good or bad art, yes, but not art itself.

Point being, if we are going to determine certain mediums as "art forms" (something we have done a lot of, and for good reason), we have to consider "art" to be an objectively defined thing. The quality of said art is subjective, and thus is its appeal as well, but its artistic status is not.
 

Shock and Awe

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Sep 6, 2008
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Words have definitions, ideas do not. Art is an idea, so people come up with different versions of what they think the idea is.