As The Wind Rises Comes To The US, So Does The Controversy

[Verlander]

I haven't seen the film and am not knowledgeable about the context, but I do have issues with how the person came off in the interview. The criticism of her article by the Spanish media as being typically American is an interesting point, not one to be dismissed. Raised in a culture that celebrates the war and the defeat of the Japanese, will obviously have an effect on how you perceive something. She also mentions being of Korean descent, and if that family connection is within three generations, it's very unlikely that it won't have been an influence on her development. I say this as a Brit with Italian heritage - I have a different perspective on certain sides of the war to my contemporaries. To dismiss these criticisms makes it harder to accept her original critique of the film. Also, anyone who substitutes the word "fandom" with "fanboydom" automatically looses a hell of a lot of credit in my book.

 

[Coakle]

I haven't seen it yet, but I know it will be my favorite Miyazaki film. It stings a little that most discussions about it will boil down to whether its Pro/Anti war or this controversy. Japan's refusal to own up to its war-time atrocities is a pretty major issue. It sows bad blood and contributes to a flawed WWII narrative.

But it's like if "Sun also Rises" was made into a movie and the discussion is mostly about the ethics of Bull Fighting in Spain. Yes. That is an ongoing controversy. However, there is a lot more going on.

Hideaki Anno is the VA for the main character. In an interview, Miyazaki says that he choice Anno because "He's living as the most wounded person in this era."


The film "The Wind Rises" was partly based on Tatsuo Hori's short story about observing a sick girl in a tuberculosis sanitarium. It was called "The Wind has Risen" and mainly dealt with the author's melancholy and ruminations on mortality. Tatsuo Hori could write a great tuberculosis story because he was also suffered from the disease.

The name "The Wind has Risen" was a quote from the poem "Le Cimetiere marin" written by Paul Valery a prominent, French Symbolist. Symbolists are all about themes like mortality, ennui, melancholy, and the idea that Art acts as a contemplative refuge from the world of strife.

Japanese writers like Tatsuo Hori, who delved into this subjects are titans. It's a really big deal when Miyazaki taps into one of these writers to create a story about a guy who used his dream as a refuge from the world of strife. This is not a standard Miyazaki movie. It's not the kind of movie Miyazaki would support unless it puts the protagonist through a meat grinder.

None of this seemed worth talking about? This movie has some really great stories and build-up surrounding it.

It's weak. Moviebob takes it as a point of pride that he investigates the history, production and people involved in the movies he watches. Y'know, tries to piece together why a movie doesn't work. I love how he lets his audience know how a film fits in the grand scheme and on a more human level. I wish Moviebob could have focused on the human interest angle a bit more.

Aw, well. Got that out of my system. I do enjoy it when Moviebob interviews other people. I got a new film critic to read watch, so I'll call it a wash.

Spoiler: Yeah, Yeah I realize this comes off as a "Why don't people talk about what interests me? spiel

Because it is.

I'll allow it because it may have gotten other people interested in this movie.

I'm not even a Miyazaki Fanboy. I do disagree with him a lot. That's why I'm interested in this movie.

 

[cerebus23]

The united states government white washes its history past present and future each and every day it remains open, why should japan be any different?

seriously the usg has done immensely monsterous crap in the name of "freedom" and national interests and it not even touched on our history books, movies much, public discussion in general. unless you dig and do your own work you wont find out most of this stuff.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

The problem here is that Japan has mostly tried to hide it's culpability and atrocities in the war, which means that they do not have the cultural capital to "white wash" their historical characters.

If, like Germany, Japan had a robust history of introspection and repudiation of WWII, then it might be fine to make a movie about a driven genious trying to create aircraft. But Japan has little of this, and Imperial Japan was one of the most systematically horrible empires in mordern times (the rape camps and slave labor camps are particularly gruesome), yet are much less universally condemned than Nazi Germany. So when Miyazaki makes this movie, he has even less ground to stand on than Disney making the "happy" Pocahontas story. Simply by making a movie about Imperial Japan and not talking about the atrocities, he is in fact making a statement. Had there been many Japanese movies already discussing the problematic actions of the Japanese airforce then he would be in far less trouble. Art is not created in a vacuum.

As for the Allies, of course there where many incidents of less than heroic actions on our side to. But for all its flaws, the US has no shortage of literature, movies and public debate that criticize its wars. Maybe less for WW2 than others, but then again, it is hard to argue that the US was not on the right side that time. WW2 is much less morally ambiguous than many other, more recent wars, largely because of the obvious "villainy" of Germany and Japan, and the real agressive treat they were to world peace.

Japan was not like Germany in which they had been the losers in two world wars. In fact, Japan held their own against Russia during WWI. In other words, I don't think that they are inclined to be as introspective as Germany. Combined with the issues of Japanese pride that I stated in the first post (seriously, i expected someone to comment on it by now), and the issue of Japan's writing out the atrocities becomes all the more complicated. Regardless, Japan is paying the price as they still have uneasy relations with Korea and China (though, whether they care is another thing entirely).

Also important to note is that, while they don't have films talking about the "problematic actions of the Japanese airforce", they do have a strong anti-war sentiment (hell, article 9 of the Japanese Constitution states that they can't fight and must be used only for peacekeeping. problematic when the Americans want them to be more proactive and fight but this is a long complicated issue between the JSDF and the world that is best saved for a separate forum)since the war had basically rewrote their entire culture. After the war, their imperial system that they held for so long was humiliated and destroyed, anxiety was high among the people as they tried to find meaning after the destruction. Their culture at that point was nearly destroyed in their eyes so while they have not addressed their own war crimes, the humiliation they felt after the war is an equal price in their eyes.

Note: anyone have more details on how Japanese culture was affected in the immediate aftermath of WWII? I only knew that they had felt that their culture was in ruins and that they started to become anti-war because of it

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

The united states government white washes its history past present and future each and every day it remains open, why should japan be any different?

seriously the usg has done immensely monsterous crap in the name of "freedom" and national interests and it not even touched on our history books, movies much, public discussion in general. unless you dig and do your own work you wont find out most of this stuff.

I do agree that every country has a rap sheet (internment of Japanese during WWII anyone) but the point still stands that if you find offense to any country wiping their dirty laundry from the books, protest as much as you like but don't expect most Americans to want the same treatment that they expect Japan to happen to the States

 

[Alterego-X]

I should point out that Germany doesn't have this problem. If anything, they tend to have the exact opposite problem [http://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee].

The problem here is that Japan has mostly tried to hide it's culpability and atrocities in the war, which means that they do not have the cultural capital to "white wash" their historical characters.

If, like Germany, Japan had a robust history of introspection and repudiation of WWII, then it might be fine to make a movie about a driven genious trying to create aircraft. But Japan has little of this, and Imperial Japan was one of the most systematically horrible empires in mordern times (the rape camps and slave labor camps are particularly gruesome), yet are much less universally condemned than Nazi Germany.

The thing is, that the Japanese Empire is not Nazi Germany. It is not a country suddenly hijacked by a single party's agenda and after it's defeat, the continuity got "restored".

Imperial Japan *is* in continuity with Japanese culture. Where germans can easily point fingers at "the nazis", Japan didn't have nazis, it had an Emperor as it had for hundreds of years. Regardless of their degree of horribleness, it's actions in Asia are more comparable to the British Empire's actions in India and Africa in terms of their reflection on the national psyche, than to totalitarian-revolutionary regimes like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

 

[Jumwa]

I am not knocking the point or anything, though it would be nice if people could direct the same sort of critical analysis upon their own nations history. Especially since there seem to be so many contemporary war films that reinforce the American military mythos.

And there has been no real acknowledgement of American atrocities in the Philippines and Korea. Veterans of the Korean war from South Korea and the US still struggle to get attention for that, with no luck.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

The united states government white washes its history past present and future each and every day it remains open, why should japan be any different?

seriously the usg has done immensely monsterous crap in the name of "freedom" and national interests and it not even touched on our history books, movies much, public discussion in general. unless you dig and do your own work you wont find out most of this stuff.

Why not kill two birds with one stone if you want to talk about USA and Japan ignoring their dirty past? Unit 731, one of the most infamous "science" experiment camps in history. Japanese scientists tortured and mutilated over 3000 victims to study effects of disease and pain on the human body. The United States conveniently let the top leaders of the facility get off scott free in exchange for their research data. War criminals were allowed to retire to respectable positions in medical and pharmaceutical companies while the USA claimed their research results.

Here's the thing though: Japan has a severe problem with accepting responsibility for their actions. That can be said for the United States as well, but I don't think any country other than Japan has ever been so incredibly stubborn about it. Moviebob's interview mentioned a reviewer who said that the war was 70 years old and that people should "get over it".

Tell that to the Canadian POWs from Hong Kong that only received a formal apology from the Japanese government last year. Or to the countless other countries that still demand Japan answer for their actions. The island of Okinawa recently was outraged over Japan's decision to edit history textbooks regarding World War 2, to deny the IJA's role in forcibly arming Okinawans as suicide bombers. Or look at how Prime Minister Shinzo Abe received a shitton of flak over his defense of Comfort Women, claiming that they were all prostitutes and totally not sex slaves.

Germany may wallow in its guilt over World War 2, but Japan outright denies everything until external pressure makes them grudgingly relent. And even then, it's impressive to see just how carefully they word their responses and apologies to make everything as neutral as possible. The Second Sino Japanese War (japan's invasion of China), is often referred to in Japan as an "incident", because they never formally declared war. A war in everything but name. China won't even deal with Japan anymore because there is still bad blood between the two countries.

 

[RoonMian]

I don't really disagree with you, but when it comes to Riefenstahl, it's kind of hard to deny her actual ability. Sure, what she's most known for is fundamentally disturbing, but I'll be damned if she wasn't amazing at it.

That is exactly my point. It is absolutely a work of art. But if you look at that and say "Bah, screw context, art for art's sake *smarm smarm*" then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

The united states government white washes its history past present and future each and every day it remains open, why should japan be any different?

seriously the usg has done immensely monsterous crap in the name of "freedom" and national interests and it not even touched on our history books, movies much, public discussion in general. unless you dig and do your own work you wont find out most of this stuff.

Why not kill two birds with one stone if you want to talk about USA and Japan ignoring their dirty past? Unit 731, one of the most infamous "science" experiment camps in history. Japanese scientists tortured and mutilated over 3000 victims to study effects of disease and pain on the human body. The United States conveniently let the top leaders of the facility get off scott free in exchange for their research data. War criminals were allowed to retire to respectable positions in medical and pharmaceutical companies while the USA claimed their research results.

Here's the thing though: Japan has a severe problem with accepting responsibility for their actions. That can be said for the United States as well, but I don't think any country other than Japan has ever been so incredibly stubborn about it. Moviebob's interview mentioned a reviewer who said that the war was 70 years old and that people should "get over it".

Tell that to the Canadian POWs from Hong Kong that only received a formal apology from the Japanese government last year. Or to the countless other countries that still demand Japan answer for their actions. The island of Okinawa recently was outraged over Japan's decision to edit history textbooks regarding World War 2, to deny the IJA's role in forcibly arming Okinawans as suicide bombers. Or look at how Prime Minister Shinzo Abe received a shitton of flak over his defense of Comfort Women, claiming that they were all prostitutes and totally not sex slaves.

Germany may wallow in its guilt over World War 2, but Japan outright denies everything until external pressure makes them grudgingly relent. And even then, it's impressive to see just how carefully they word their responses and apologies to make everything as neutral as possible. The Second Sino Japanese War (japan's invasion of China), is often referred to in Japan as an "incident", because they never formally declared war. A war in everything but name. China won't even deal with Japan anymore because there is still bad blood between the two countries.

For unit 731, didn't we do the same thing with rocket scientists in Nazi Germany who gained positions in NASA and helped with the moon landing?

Regardless, yes, Japan is at fault for the crimes and are stupidly trying to hide as much of it as possible but A) so does China, Korea, and the US and B) I already made a statement that losing the war was a major hit on the culture as it was humiliated and nearly destroyed during the American Occupation. To say that the elderly in Japan are still bitter and raw over it is an understatement; after the war, Japan's culture was drastically different and many felt a lack of purpose in the aftermath.

One note about Abe, despite the name of the party (the Liberal Democratic Party), he is a center-right politician which means he is probably affiliated with the nationalists, a group known to try to downplay the war crimes.

P.S. any idea what members of the Democratic Party of Japan think about the war crimes: are they trying to force people to learn or do they downplay the crimes like the Liberal Democratic Party. Also, this forum, while insightful and worthwhile, feels incomplete. I have said it before but can people please post editorials and posts from Japan over the movie and this issue.

 

[RoonMian]

For unit 731, didn't we do the same thing with rocket scientists in Nazi Germany who gained positions in NASA and helped with the moon landing?

Yes, the US did and Peenemünde was a freaking nightmare, too.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

this is by far not in the same wheel house but remember how outraged people were that the ice age movies added dinosaurs when they would have been long dead by the time the movie represented? I remember it because it was soooo mind bogglingly stupid that people cared even a little bit about historical accuracy in a movie about a talking mammoth, sloth, and sabertooth tiger best friends....

People just love this "argument", don't they? It's for kids, so it doesn't have to be intelligent. It's for kids, so fuck history, and accuracy, and biology. It's for kids, so dodos should be stupid, even though we fuckers are the ones who drove them to extinction. God forbid kids learn a little extra while they're being entertained.

 

[StriderShinryu]

It sounds to me like Japan's attitude towards the bad things it did over fifty years ago is no different from America's. I mean, in the last five years there have been two separate video games extolling the actions of the US in the Vietnam War while at the same time exploiting the "controversial" nature of anything that so much as brings it up.

I should point out that Germany doesn't have this problem. If anything, they tend to have the exact opposite problem [http://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee].

This is my thought as well. I realize it's a bit out of the scope of this particular article, but the Japanese tendency to intentionally overlook it's own participation in various atrocities is hardly unique. As a Canadian, there's quite a bit that my country has done in it's past particularly in dealing with our indigenous peoples that doesn't get much space at all in any sort of media unless it's something in an ezpose type format.

 

[cerebus23]

The united states government white washes its history past present and future each and every day it remains open, why should japan be any different?

seriously the usg has done immensely monsterous crap in the name of "freedom" and national interests and it not even touched on our history books, movies much, public discussion in general. unless you dig and do your own work you wont find out most of this stuff.

Why not kill two birds with one stone if you want to talk about USA and Japan ignoring their dirty past? Unit 731, one of the most infamous "science" experiment camps in history. Japanese scientists tortured and mutilated over 3000 victims to study effects of disease and pain on the human body. The United States conveniently let the top leaders of the facility get off scott free in exchange for their research data. War criminals were allowed to retire to respectable positions in medical and pharmaceutical companies while the USA claimed their research results.

Here's the thing though: Japan has a severe problem with accepting responsibility for their actions. That can be said for the United States as well, but I don't think any country other than Japan has ever been so incredibly stubborn about it. Moviebob's interview mentioned a reviewer who said that the war was 70 years old and that people should "get over it".

Tell that to the Canadian POWs from Hong Kong that only received a formal apology from the Japanese government last year. Or to the countless other countries that still demand Japan answer for their actions. The island of Okinawa recently was outraged over Japan's decision to edit history textbooks regarding World War 2, to deny the IJA's role in forcibly arming Okinawans as suicide bombers. Or look at how Prime Minister Shinzo Abe received a shitton of flak over his defense of Comfort Women, claiming that they were all prostitutes and totally not sex slaves.

Germany may wallow in its guilt over World War 2, but Japan outright denies everything until external pressure makes them grudgingly relent. And even then, it's impressive to see just how carefully they word their responses and apologies to make everything as neutral as possible. The Second Sino Japanese War (japan's invasion of China), is often referred to in Japan as an "incident", because they never formally declared war. A war in everything but name. China won't even deal with Japan anymore because there is still bad blood between the two countries.

Or ameicans more recent past in south america and the middle east, supporting brutal dictators that rape tortured and murdered their own people to stay in power to hell with everyone elese rights.

We should tidy up our own houses, united states japans canada and so on, but until we do we have no right to get preachy with any nation for white washing its past.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

For unit 731, didn't we do the same thing with rocket scientists in Nazi Germany who gained positions in NASA and helped with the moon landing?

I think there's a difference between a man who develops rockets like Wernher von Braun, and a doctor who vivisected people without anesthesia to test frostbite on them. I'm not trying to defend von Braun, he's a very complicated subject, but I put the scientists who worked at 731 on the same scale as Joseph Mengele. They were monsters.

We should tidy up our own houses, united states japans canada and so on, but until we do we have no right to get preachy with any nation for white washing its past.

I think that we have every right. You're speaking as though other countries aren't asking us to own up, as though we're focusing everything on Japan. Canada has had a troubled relationship with our first nations people for years, and we have had other countries pressure us to make amends and push for better treatment of first nations people. Last year, a census group traveled to several of the most affected native reservations to assess the quality of life there, and their report came up severely lacking.

Every country has to be held accountable for their actions and their history, Japan just seems like the hardest nut to crack, they will fight tooth and nail to preserve their version of history, even when the rest of the world is shouting at them.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I am not knocking the point or anything, though it would be nice if people could direct the same sort of critical analysis upon their own nations history. Especially since there seem to be so many contemporary war films that reinforce the American military mythos.

And there has been no real acknowledgement of American atrocities in the Philippines and Korea. Veterans of the Korean war from South Korea and the US still struggle to get attention for that, with no luck.

Even the quite horrific actions of the US in the Vietnam war haven't been officially condemned or recognized. At the most, by peripheral political figures. Mind you, I think that will change in a few generations when all the actors from that war preventing recognition even now are dead.

 

[RA92]

I rather liked Film Critic Hulk's take on it.

http://badassdigest.com/2013/12/09/the-wind-rises-and-cinematic-moralism/

His commentary was that perhaps as his final movie, Miyazaki wanted to show the personal costs of the pursuit of art (specifically his strained relation with his family whom he barely gave any time for his movies). Jiro is disconnected from the horrors his creation has wrought to the very end, and his disconnection is reflected in the movie since it's his perspective.

 

[Dragonlayer]

An anime that ties into WW2 and isn't Hetalia? I may just be slightly inclined to take notice.

As for the article itself, an interesting read: I'm not sure how exactly the film deals with the subject, but I've always thought it acceptable to create works set during troublesome times (to put it lightly) with little reference to them because not everyone at the time was connected or even aware of the atrocities. Not to say that, for example, a film about the experiences of an IJA regiment in the Pacific from 41-45 should be a rose-tinted celebration of heroic valour but neither do I think works based on less-connected story elements - like this Wind Rises thang - shouldn't have to be riddled with obligatory war crime scenes. Of course, that in itself raises the question "Can you make an innocent film about something that could be used for less innocent purposes?" so I'm just going to finish this disjointed and incoherent paragraph with a great big "Hmmmm....".

Also: "Miyazaki is also a well-known activist for the comfort-women cause."

I'm going to assume that means Miyazaki is supportive of the acknowledgement of and reparations for comfort-women, not that he thought it was an awesome idea!

 

[Dragonlayer]

I should point out that Germany doesn't have this problem. If anything, they tend to have the exact opposite problem [http://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee].

The problem here is that Japan has mostly tried to hide it's culpability and atrocities in the war, which means that they do not have the cultural capital to "white wash" their historical characters.

If, like Germany, Japan had a robust history of introspection and repudiation of WWII, then it might be fine to make a movie about a driven genious trying to create aircraft. But Japan has little of this, and Imperial Japan was one of the most systematically horrible empires in mordern times (the rape camps and slave labor camps are particularly gruesome), yet are much less universally condemned than Nazi Germany.

The thing is, that the Japanese Empire is not Nazi Germany. It is not a country suddenly hijacked by a single party's agenda and after it's defeat, the continuity got "restored".

Imperial Japan *is* in continuity with Japanese culture. Where germans can easily point fingers at "the nazis", Japan didn't have nazis, it had an Emperor as it had for hundreds of years. Regardless of their degree of horribleness, it's actions in Asia are more comparable to the British Empire's actions in India and Africa in terms of their reflection on the national psyche, than to totalitarian-revolutionary regimes like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

While the Japanese Empire was in continuity with Japanese culture, the nation did fall into the same Ultra-Nationalist trap as Italy and Germany during the 30s when extreme militarist groups assassinated and blackmailed their way into control of parliament. I'm not trying to suggest that can be used by the Japanese as a cop-out defence for their crimes mind you, but it wasn't as though everyone looked at their family journals and went "My grandad thought the Chinese suck; well I hate them so much I'm going to rape them to death!" - militarism and racism were played up by the extremists (compare and contrast Imperial Japanese military behavior from WW1 after all).

 

[Jumwa]

Even the quite horrific actions of the US in the Vietnam war haven't been officially condemned or recognized. At the most, by peripheral political figures. Mind you, I think that will change in a few generations when all the actors from that war preventing recognition even now are dead.

The best movie tales we have of that period and its atrocities are movies like Platoon and Apocalypse Now, which are almost fully focused on the suffering of American soldiers, and not on the horrific slaughter and torture of the Vietnamese they terrorized for so many, many years.

Although sadly I don't share your optimism about the war getting better recognition with time. It seems to me that in popular culture Vietnam has only become further mystified and hidden, or when mentioned brought up as something misunderstood, that the public didn't get it. With some unsaid insinuation that if they had the military could've pulled it through and won that righteous war!

I hope I'm wrong there, but I haven't personally seen any signs of improvement.