Asexuality

[Teepop]

Another social justice thread, yaay.

Asexuals either have something physiologically or psychologically wrong with them or are liars. It's not normal for a "healthy" adult. I don't personally care about anyone's proclivities (or lack thereof) to be clear, but do believe there is something wrong that makes someone asexual (if they genuinely are).

Yeah this is why I'm a bit dubious about a-sexuality awareness as I am not a big fan of the social justice pressure groups and it does feel a bit social justice-y talking about it!

But funnily enough I do agree with you that there must be something "wrong" with me although it is not apparent to me what that might be. My siblings are all "normal" and had an identical upbringing.

That being said, if you gave me a pill and told me that if I swallowed it I would be "cured", I wouldn't take it.

 

[IceForce]

Asexuals either have something physiologically or psychologically wrong with them or are liars. It's not normal for a "healthy" adult. I don't personally care about anyone's proclivities (or lack thereof) to be clear, but do believe there is something wrong that makes someone asexual (if they genuinely are).

Let me try something here...

Homosexuals either have something physiologically or psychologically wrong with them or are liars. It's not normal for a "healthy" adult. I don't personally care about anyone's proclivities (or lack thereof) to be clear, but do believe there is something wrong that makes someone homosexual (if they genuinely are).

Now do you see why you are so utterly wrong?

 

[DarkRawen]

[
Denying who you are =/= acknowledging that it's not something that everyone else needs to know.

And yes, I do think that what's going on in my head is my business, and my business alone, and I was unaware of that so little people have the same opinion. :/

Let's day for a moment I was gay and in a relationship


If I get asked "do I have a boy freind" would I be allowed to correct them or should I dodge the question

Or when my co-workers were looking at the 50 shades trailer and making comments about the guy would I be allowed to make a comment about the girl?

Thease things bleed into our daily lives in small ways and there's no reason we have to hide

You should be able to correct them, of course you should. However, do you want them? Do you know what their opinion of this kinda thing is? Are they close enough for it to be any of their damned business?

I know the questions, and I know what I have to ensure that I don't get into conversations I don't want to encounter. If people were close enough to me for me to want to tell them if I even had a boyfriend (seeing as I still have boobs, sadly, this is what they'd be likely to ask me) , they'd already know that I was seeing someone and who they were.

I don't know who "they" are, but I'll assume it's the people who use the flags? In that case, it's a shame, but it's certainly possible to not define yourself by your sexuality. I'm not saying it's not supposed to be present, it's a thing. A part of everyone. But is it really other people's business?

It's other people's business when they make it their business. Which constantly happens.

In the vast majority of the world, gay marriage (for example) isn't allowed. People who've got nothing to do with it have made this decision.

Yes, but it still doesn't explain the flag, which was my initial question. People know that gay, asexual and bisexuals exist. Why does people need be made aware of it? Do you think people'll just forget that they (we, I suppose) exist?

 

[IceForce]

I had a question, actually:
If a bi-sexual person is attracted to either gender, and a pansexual person attracted to people regardless of their gender, how are they different, exactly? >>

You answered your own question, by using the word "either".

"If a bi-sexual person is attracted to either gender..."

"Either" implies a binary choice between male or female. Pansexuality incorporates attraction to transgender people and gender fluid people as well.

 

[giles]

Yes, I know that. I'm human after all, but all humans are not completely the same. I'd like it if all humans treated each-other with respect, but that's difficult when we still misunderstand each-other daily.

You can paint everyone on Earth a single colour, but it won't make them exactly the same. The reality is that every single human being is a unique individual, whether they look physically the same or not.

If everyone is different shouldn't we set aside a time for every single person? No, because if everyone is unique then nobody is special.

This thread seeks to promote further understanding of the less immediately obvious differences between those people.

It promotes understanding of one of the least important differences between people: what they are willing to do to what kind of other consenting adult in their bedroom. I couldn't fucking care less. I understand, however, that society is fixated on what people do with their genitals so I proposed my alternative awareness week.
Yes, society, men have a penis and women have a vagina. Can we, as a culture, move on now?

If you're apathetic about the matter, why did you feel the need to come here and say so?

I guess I was a little agitated after learning about those flags. I mean come the fuck on...

 

[Scars Unseen]

Sexuality is supposed to be a pretty private thing too, at least that's what I was taught, why are everyone carrying it on their sleeve and identifying themselves by it?

Sexuality isn't "supposed" to be anything. If that's what you were taught, then that was what you were taught. The entire world doesn't need to adhere to your personal beliefs, and a fair bit of it most assuredly does not. As for why people are carrying their sexuality on their sleeve, well that reason will vary from person to person, but in my opinion, it sure beats being ashamed of it. There is little to be gained in denying who you are.

Denying who you are =/= acknowledging that it's not something that everyone else needs to know.

And yes, I do think that what's going on in my head is my business, and my business alone, and I was unaware of that so little people have the same opinion. :/

Okay, then how do you ever plan on getting in a sexual relationship if you never let anyone know what your sexuality is? And do you hold equal scorn for the heterosexual people trying to find a partner on dating sites? Chat rooms? Night clubs? Really, if you keep your sexuality 100% to yourself, your only hope lies in an arranged marriage, and none at all if you don't conform to societal expectations, which will almost certainly exclude anything other than heterosexuality if people aren't allowed to express themselves.

In the case of asexuality, what are you supposed to say to a potential partner(in friendship, romance, or otherwise) when you are getting along great, but you deflect all attempts to push things to a sexual level? "Not interested" certainly works(and to be clear, you certainly don't "owe" anyone any further explanation than that), but why should you feel compelled to keep your sexuality to yourself, when explaining it could clear up the confusion and help avoid misunderstanding. It certainly did between my friend and me.

I mean, it's not like people are talking about including their sexuality as part of their introduction to strangers("Hi, my name is Chris, and I like to have sex with women. What's your name? Why are you backing away? Come back! I want to get to know yoooou!"). We're just discussing a topic on the internet. And then some people decided to call people liars, treat them the same way as the Tooth Fairy, and tell them to keep their shit to themselves. So I guess I should ask you, why are you so intent on telling people what to do about their sexuality? Shouldn't you take your own advice and keep it to yourself? It's not like you can't just avoid the topic if it disinterests you.

I'm not saying you should keep your thoughts to yourself. Merely pointing out that your logic is self-defeating when sexuality is the actual topic of discussion.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Thats what it was for me. My parents told me about it before 7th grade Sex Ed, I told them "I dont care what you have to do, I WILL NOT take that class", opted out, took another gym class instead

At the risk of sounding harsh, that may have been a mistake. : (
Sex ed has taught me and my classmates a lot about sexuality, not just the nitty gritty of plumbing, but things like contraceptives, social dynamics and being considerate for your partner, as well as the sexual orientation of other people.
Not to mention, in middle school (I was about 16 then) they concluded the course by telling us about a few "tips", as well as helping us overcome anxiety regarding the matter, it helped us think about who we are and what we want/like.

Granted, I live in the Netherlands, we're not as reluctant discussing these things in public and certainly don't get so uptight aout it when it get's on TV, and I think we benefit from that, it has helped our emancipation along quite nicely, walking away from it never helped anybody.

Now I don't know if A-sexuality is an actual thing, from what I've seen, it looks like it is, but if you label yourself as A-sexual just because you're trying so hard to avoid the issue, you're hurting yourself way more than you may be aware of.

And that goes for more things in life than just sexuality, that's what my psychiatrist told me.

 

[Caffiene]

Aces are not celibate [...] they just don't have a desire for sex and are in most cases, perfectly happy going their entire lives without having it.

Im confused. Isnt going without sex exactly what celibacy is? Or are you referring to the less common religion-related usage?
This reads as though youre saying "Aces are not celibate, and in most cases are happy to be celibate"

 

[Teepop]

It promotes understanding of one of the least important differences between people: what they are willing to do to what kind of other consenting adult in their bedroom. I couldn't fucking care less.

Yeah as an a-sexual I consider the issue of whose orifices you wish to penetrate with your genitals to be bizarre, disgusting but of little importance. I couldn't care less either.

However I only have to listen to a group of friends in a bar, open a newspaper, turn on the TV, browse the web, watch a movie or even play a video game to see that the rest of the population are massively obsessed and pre-occupied with it!

Everywhere you go it is in your face.

I don't have a problem with that; it is their world and not mine I guess.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

You answered your own question, by using the word "either".

"If a bi-sexual person is attracted to either gender..."

"Either" implies a binary choice between male or female. Pansexuality incorporates attraction to transgender people and gender fluid people as well.

Yeah, call it a flaw (or advantage) of my native language, but dutch does not have a distinction between "sex" and "gender", they mean the same thing.
We keep it strictly biological, it's probably why the whole "different pronouns" will never really take off here^^, we don't care what you identify as, linguistically speaking, if you have man-parts between your legs, you're a "he", if it's girl part, you're a "she".

transgender? same deal, if you are post-op and now have different bits, you will have pronouns based on those bits, it's a very elegant system.

 

[Teepop]

Aces are not celibate [...] they just don't have a desire for sex and are in most cases, perfectly happy going their entire lives without having it.

Im confused. Isnt going without sex exactly what celibacy is? Or are you referring to the less common religion-related usage?
This reads as though youre saying "Aces are not celibate, and in most cases are happy to be celibate"

As I understand it celibacy is when you want sex but choose not to do it for whatever reason (religious, cultural pressure etc).

A-sexuals don't want sex and may or may not do it. When they don't, it is because they are not interested as opposed to being "up for it" but abstained for religious or cultural reasons.

The celibate person is going against the instincts, the a-sexual is not.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Aces are not celibate [...] they just don't have a desire for sex and are in most cases, perfectly happy going their entire lives without having it.

Im confused. Isnt going without sex exactly what celibacy is? Or are you referring to the less common religion-related usage?
This reads as though youre saying "Aces are not celibate, and in most cases are happy to be celibate"

Celibacy is a personal choice. Asexuality is not.

A person who is heterosexual (or any other orientation) may choose to be celibate for religious reasons, ext, but this doesn't change the fact that they're a person who is sexually attracted to others.

Asexual people are not sexually attracted to others. Consider conditions like low T, which makes people miserable.
An asexual person is not miserable, does not feel upset or that anything is "lost" or "withheld" by not having sex.

 

[DarkRawen]

Sexuality is supposed to be a pretty private thing too, at least that's what I was taught, why are everyone carrying it on their sleeve and identifying themselves by it?

Sexuality isn't "supposed" to be anything. If that's what you were taught, then that was what you were taught. The entire world doesn't need to adhere to your personal beliefs, and a fair bit of it most assuredly does not. As for why people are carrying their sexuality on their sleeve, well that reason will vary from person to person, but in my opinion, it sure beats being ashamed of it. There is little to be gained in denying who you are.

Denying who you are =/= acknowledging that it's not something that everyone else needs to know.

And yes, I do think that what's going on in my head is my business, and my business alone, and I was unaware of that so little people have the same opinion. :/

Okay, then how do you ever plan on getting in a sexual relationship if you never let anyone know what your sexuality is? And do you hold equal scorn for the heterosexual people trying to find a partner on dating sites? Chat rooms? Night clubs? Really, if you keep your sexuality 100% to yourself, your only hope lies in an arranged marriage, and none at all if you don't conform to societal expectations, which will almost certainly exclude anything other than heterosexuality if people aren't allowed to express themselves.

In the case of asexuality, what are you supposed to say to a potential partner(in friendship, romance, or otherwise) when you are getting along great, but you deflect all attempts to push things to a sexual level? "Not interested" certainly works(and to be clear, you certainly don't "owe" anyone any further explanation than that), but why should you feel compelled to keep your sexuality to yourself, when explaining it could clear up the confusion and help avoid misunderstanding. It certainly did between my friend and me.

I mean, it's not like people are talking about including their sexuality as part of their introduction to strangers("Hi, my name is Chris, and I like to have sex with women. What's your name? Why are you backing away? Come back! I want to get to know yoooou!"). We're just discussing a topic on the internet. And then some people decided to call people liars, treat them the same way as the Tooth Fairy, and tell them to keep their shit to themselves. So I guess I should ask you, why are you so intent on telling people what to do about their sexuality? Shouldn't you take your own advice and keep it to yourself? It's not like you can't just avoid the topic if it disinterests you.

I'm not saying you should keep your thoughts to yourself. Merely pointing out that your logic is self-defeating when sexuality is the actual topic of discussion.

How was that my point? Seriously, how would I even get to that point?

Let's see, I'll address as much as I can, I suppose.

1. I still share things with people, I said "everyone else", not "other people". I also thought it was commonly understood that something being "your business" meant that it's up to you to decide who should hear it, not that it was taboo. Heck, if everything goes well, I'll have to explain why I'm suddenly a dude to everyone I haven't mentioned it to. I just don't want be put in some sort of group for anything like that.

2. Actually, I've had several people be like: "Hi, my name is blah blah, and also, I'm gay.", which I find is rather too direct for a stranger.

3. I'll deal with getting into relationships when that comes up. Worst case scenario, I'll simply not mention until I actually have an interest in the other. As I said, it's not like I lock it up and keep it there forever, I just choose who I tell according to whether or not it is in any way necessary.

4. I'd like to make it clear, in case I didn't before; this is my opinion, and I don't care about making everyone see it my way. I'm simply explaining how I see it, and asking questions because I'd like the flags to make sense, and I still haven't managed. To me it seems like putting people in groups is only beneficial to some people, most of all the people who likes being in those groups, and it seems to ruin the whole point about acknowledging that everyone is different.

 

[Barbas]

Yes, I know that. I'm human after all, but all humans are not completely the same. I'd like it if all humans treated each-other with respect, but that's difficult when we still misunderstand each-other daily.

You can paint everyone on Earth a single colour, but it won't make them exactly the same. The reality is that every single human being is a unique individual, whether they look physically the same or not.

If everyone is different shouldn't we set aside a time for every single person? No, because if everyone is unique then nobody is special.

This thread seeks to promote further understanding of the less immediately obvious differences between those people.

It promotes understanding of one of the least important differences between people: what they are willing to do to what kind of other consenting adult in their bedroom. I couldn't fucking care less. I understand, however, that society is fixated on what people do with their genitals so I proposed my alternative awareness week.
Yes, society, men have a penis and women have a vagina. Can we, as a culture, move on now?

If you're apathetic about the matter, why did you feel the need to come here and say so?

I guess I was a little agitated after learning about those flags. I mean come the fuck on...

We are moving on, though. We are moving on from a previous view of things after it turned out to be narrow or overly-simplistic. Are you confused? I certainly am, but I think this is important and even if I didn't, other people certainly do. So it's worth making an effort to understand people better. I'm not going to let what someone does in their bedroom colour in my perception of them, because there's a lot more to them than that. People mention what such-and-such group does "in their bedroom" pretty often, but do you really think that's all this discussion is about?

I don't see the need for the flags, personally, but I'm willingly to have my mind changed by a compelling argument. For some people, it's just nice to have a banner that reminds them they're with like-minded people. It may sound ridiculous, but I've known people to be reduced to tears simply by being welcomed into a room full of people who feel as they do.

 

[Something Amyss]

-It does not feel like a genuine sexual orientation.
I see sexual orientations as who or what you prefer to have sex with. Straight, Gay, Bi, Lesbian, it's very clear and simple, you want to have sex with either a male, female or both. The problem I see with Asexuality is that the normal sexual orientations still apply to you so the whole point of Asexuality seems redundant.

What does it matter how you feel? It's not your sex life. How does this differ from the dismissal of bisexuality as "special snowflakes," "greedy," or any of a number of other things? How does this differ from conservative groups indicating homosexuality isn't a real sexuality?

No, it doesn't, but there's a difference between saying: "Well, there's this thing called homosexuality, and it's actually not that uncommon" and "look at this flag, it represents a certain group because we say it do, also, this pretty fitting term is just an umbrella term for a lot more".

The great philosopher Eddie Izzard has pointed out that a flag is necessary for a legitimate claim.

Ehm, yes? No need to be sarcastic, I was talking about everyone, straight people included. Look, my point is that I don't care who you want to have sex with, and I'm very sure you don't care who I want to have sex with, or even what I see myself as on the inside. Sexuality in itself isn't really a negative thing, but defining yourself by it sort of is, IMO.

The problem is, saying this in a heteronormative society is generally an endorsement of the status quo, where heterosexuality is everywhere and everything else is not to be discussed. We live in a culture that assumes straight unless distinctly told otherwise, and often even not then. Homosexuals are "sinners" and bisexuals are "confused" and asexuals are just "virgins who need to get laid." People operate on the assumption of heterosexuality and often react negatively for anything else. This can go from dismissal to beratement to actual violence.

And you know what? Flags and other symbols do help groups get recognised.

I seem to have a VERY strong romantic inclination towards women (which is why I devour every lesbian centric book/movie/whatever I can find) hetero stuff just bores me to tears

You sure you're not just a sexual hipster? "Ugh, heterosexuality is so mainstream!"

I kid, of course, but I had t say it. It's the boredom comment. It was taunting me, saying "go on, Zachary, I dare you. I DARE YOU!"

What, forum posts don't talk to you? Well, moving on then!

But since I'm constantly treated like it is, mostly from straight people, I'm just kinda waiting for people to start calling THEM on it.

And this is the other part of the problem. For all the people who say they are against displays of heterosexuality, you'd think there'd be some major movement. But there isn't. It often comes down to lack of awareness, which is a sticky situation, because you'll get shouted down for bringing it up.

 

[Lieju]

Perhaps it'd be more of a given if people didn't focus so much on that one aspect of themselves? It's possible to be yourself privately, you know. :/

What a wonderful idea!

As soon as straight people stop pushing their sexuality on everyone's faces I'll be all for that!

Ehm, yes? No need to be sarcastic, I was talking about everyone, straight people included. Look, my point is that I don't care who you want to have sex with, and I'm very sure you don't care who I want to have sex with, or even what I see myself as on the inside. Sexuality in itself isn't really a negative thing, but defining yourself by it sort of is, IMO.

I was not being sarcastic. I meant what I said.

And I'd love it if people didn't define me by my sexuality.
If it wouldn't be a big thing.

But since I'm constantly treated like it is, mostly from straight people, I'm just kinda waiting for people to start calling THEM on it.
If I just keep quiet it is even easier for the majority to demonise people like me or try to erase my existence.

I hardly think that it's even close to being the majority (in the west, mind you) but yes, that does suck when people are like that. Honestly though, I'm beginning to think it's more of an approach difference, as I see no use in being loud about it, but I'll certainly mention it if it comes up -rarely does- and I've never encountered the issue of people judging me on anything like that. I have to admit that I'm more curious than trying to make people see it from my perspective, as I know that there's a lot that I have no way of understanding.

People have, on several occasion, told homophobic jokes to me, and then been offended when I have pointed out I'm gay.

I have been told what people like me are like, as if non-straight people are some sort of boogeyman.

Close family members tell me that 'at least I'm not like them', them being some nebulous gay-wizard population presumably that are aiming to break the Finnish society with buggery.

I have been guilted into hiding my sexuality to avoid 'upsetting' people.

And that I just need to find the right man, that I really want to have sex with men and am just lying to myself.
(And these are just with my family and friends and at least I don't have to fear violence from them)

I would really love a society where people don't care if you're attracted to women or men or whatever as long as it's consensual.

But I don't live in a society like that.

And if I stay quiet, it means pretending I'm straight.

 

[Something Amyss]

I had a question, actually:
If a bi-sexual person is attracted to either gender, and a pansexual person attracted to people regardless of their gender, how are they different, exactly? >>

Depends on who you ask.

Some people say bisexuals (no hyphen) are attracted solely to the binary options and others apply the term to mean anyone. The former has led to the term pansexual (or omnisexual) because of the exclusion involved. Basically, we decided to make our own treehouse. With blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the treehouse.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Hmm, I've always considered demisexual to be on a different level than the gay/straight/bi/pan/ace identity, because demisexual doesn't really state who you're attracted to (same gender/opposite gender/both genders/everything inbetween/no gender) but rather the measure in which you are attracted to them. So, you could be a gay demisexual, but you can't really be a straight bisexual, I guess. It's a sort of libido scale.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Another social justice thread, yaay.

Asexuals either have something physiologically or psychologically wrong with them or are liars. It's not normal for a "healthy" adult. I don't personally care about anyone's proclivities (or lack thereof) to be clear, but do believe there is something wrong that makes someone asexual (if they genuinely are).

Yeah this is why I'm a bit dubious about a-sexuality awareness as I am not a big fan of the social justice pressure groups and it does feel a bit social justice-y talking about it!

But funnily enough I do agree with you that there must be something "wrong" with me although it is not apparent to me what that might be. My siblings are all "normal" and had an identical upbringing.

That being said, if you gave me a pill and told me that if I swallowed it I would be "cured", I wouldn't take it.

There's no pill to cure such a thing. If it was physiological such as a genetic condition, illness or hormonal imbalance, there may or may not be ways to address it. If it's psychological, such as a result of experiences in childhood, upbringing, parenting, whatever, a psychiatrist might be able to help address the underlying issue. But I'm sorry to say, and don't mean it offensively, but there is something wrong if you are genuinely asexual. Healthy adults are not asexual.

Asexuals either have something physiologically or psychologically wrong with them or are liars. It's not normal for a "healthy" adult. I don't personally care about anyone's proclivities (or lack thereof) to be clear, but do believe there is something wrong that makes someone asexual (if they genuinely are).

Any reason for this? Any research, any studies you can cite?

I'm also unsure why a thread that mentions a minority, in a perfectly non-confrontational and polite manner, should be categorised and dismissed as "another social justice thread". Is even talking about minorities too much, now, regardless of how polite we are?

Asexuals are not a minority, they're people with an issue (either psychological or physiological). And observing healthy humans and animals is evidence enough that asexuality isn't normal or healthy. Healthy humans and animals upon reaching adulthood desire sex. Not all the time, and libidos do vary, but there is a drive; hormones and evolution drive it. I'm not impolite, I'm stating an opinion which may be politically incorrect.

I'm not "dismissing" the thread as "another social justice thread". I'm stating that it is one. Because there aren't enough on this web site already.

 

[Keoul]

What does it matter how you feel? It's not your sex life. How does this differ from the dismissal of bisexuality as "special snowflakes," "greedy," or any of a number of other things? How does this differ from conservative groups indicating homosexuality isn't a real sexuality?

Ah the classic "what does it matter to you? if you don't like it just go away." argument.
I'm telling OP how I perceive sexual orientation and asking them to correct me, if I find their definition of it making more sense than mine I'd gladly change over.

And why have you not addressed my argument then? What is the point of Asexuality when it can fit under the current gay/straight/lesbian/bi system. Just because you like someone for their mind and not their body doesn't make you separate from the current system, if it did then I would acknowledge it, but since it doesn't I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.