Assassin's Creed III: Liberation Review
- Thread starter MikeWehner
- Start date
I present you with (the now official cosplay team?), i guess, since i've been seeing them work for the Ubisoft stand at recent conventions.Jzcaesar said:
Damn fine costumes, saw them up close at the last FACTS in Belgium.
http://kotaku.com/5944799/simply-the-best-assassins-creed-cosplay-youll-ever-see
Am I the only one who thinks the picture of the woman on the main page leading to this article makes her look like a mouse? You know, like one of those Mickey Mouse hats with ears? In the actual article you can see that it's just because of perspective, but still. Looks weird.
Now read what I said CAREFULLY.Vault101 said:
Done?
Now you'll notice I mentioned a very specific distinction between a secondary or supporting character and a main character. When your dealing with a secondary character it's easy to gloss over the specifics, especially if they only show up part of the time, in a very specific context to someone else's plotline. A main character on the other hand typically requires more detail, and when an idea just doesn't work for the setting it's more difficult to deal with, you can't just hint at some depth or let the unusualness speak for itself and let it slide. Leading to a character in this game who isn't as well developed, and has a really strained backround trying to make the idea work which was a stated problem to begin with, I'm just pointing out why.
Simply put focusing on Enzio made it more viable to have female assasins running around because the fous on him meant you didn't have to closely examine those characters and their relationship with the enviroment. You could go "oh hey, there is a female assasin, with a big of backstory" and then just go with the flow without really needing to think that one through because your protaganist more or less made sense, as did the reaction of the enviroment around you.
Like it or not, it already didn't work, I'm just pointing out why it doubtlessly didn't work.
so what your saying is "yeah but...they were background charachter so we dont have to think about them...or we can ignore them...or whatever"
but then there was ezios sister who got initiated..and I'm pretty sure there were a couple of females who were part of the order (or at least helped out)
it CAN work, the assasns are a shadow organisation, hence while a woman doesnt have much to do in society she could be an assasn...hell she has the advantage because enemies suspect her less
but then there was ezios sister who got initiated..and I'm pretty sure there were a couple of females who were part of the order (or at least helped out)
this is where I disagreeTherumancer said:
it CAN work, the assasns are a shadow organisation, hence while a woman doesnt have much to do in society she could be an assasn...hell she has the advantage because enemies suspect her less
Not really, especially not as this game is done with all of the free running and everything else. There is pretty much an issue every time she does anything that's even remotely public, not to mention the whole issue of how she obtained this paticular skill set and is able to function in these situations.Vault101 said:
They tried to come up with a backround for it, which was really stretching, and then had to gloss over a lot of the specifics. The whole point here is that the backround doesn't work and is glossed over. Something that happened before I even wrote this.
Had they managed to make the writing work and develop the depth and such that we'd expect we wouldn't be having this conversation. In argueing with me, your pretty much argueing against something that already happend and is right there.
As much as people love to decry things like sexism and scream political correctness from the rooftops, one of the issues with dealing with historical settings that are trying to be realistic is that these things very much existed, and what's more existed for a a number of reasons. The modernization of society and technology was one of the things that enabled gender equality.
Popular or not, understand that if a lady tried to do half the crap an Assasin's Creed protaganist did, she'd probably be burned at the stake for being possesed by the devil, if she was lucky she'd just be slapped back down into her place.
Does this mean you couldn't do a good story about a lady assasin in that setting? Not really, but it wouldn't be anything like an Assasin's Creed game. You'd be dealing with less free running, and more politics, poisoning, and always trying to arrange for there to be a male alibi to be anywhere the character needs to go. Indeed there HAVE been characters like that in a lot of historical fiction, but it wouldn't generate the right vibe.
Do not misunderstand the point here either, I understand why people want their freerunning female Enzio/Altair, it's just something that probably shouldn't have been brought up as a protaganist until a later time period where it could be more easily justified without having to gloss over so many details and story points to make it work. The more you have to stretch the worse it gets.
In the end we'll doubtlessly have to agree to disagree though. Things like this are never decided on the Internet.
I havnt played the game...but this particular example aside joining the assasins opens up at opertunity to learn free runningTherumancer said:
[quote/]understand that if a lady tried to do half the crap an Assasin's Creed protaganist did, she'd probably be burned at the stake for being possesed by the devil, if she was lucky she'd just be slapped back down into her place.
Does this mean you couldn't do a good story about a lady assasin in that setting? Not really, but it wouldn't be anything like an Assasin's Creed game. You'd be dealing with less free running, and more politics, poisoning, and always trying to arrange for there to be a male alibi to be anywhere the character needs to go. Indeed there HAVE been characters like that in a lot of historical fiction, but it wouldn't generate the right vibe.
[/quote]
though people mgiht have forgotten the Idea behined the Assasns is not to be seen..to blend in the with crowd....although it might not look it in gameplay ezio/altiar/connor are not actually being "seen" as much on the rooftops, because people generally don't look up,
even if they see a women doing such strange things she would just run away and hide...the whole point of the series
though people mgiht have forgotten the Idea behined the Assasns is not to be seen..to blend in the with crowd....although it might not look it in gameplay ezio/altiar/connor are not actually being "seen" as much on the rooftops, because people generally don't look up,Vault101 said:
even if they see a women doing such strange things she would just run away and hide...the whole point of the series[/quote]
Not really, the whole point of AC when I've played it is to run so far as to blend in with the crowd or whatever. Hiding among a group of passing scholors, or whatever. That's believable to an extent when you consider Altair or Enzio are just unremarkable guys wearing hoods, but it's quite differant when your playing a female character.
I think the bottom line though is that the game does play like Assasin's Creed games so far. She pretty much does all of the stuff that you'd expect Enzio, Altair, or most recently Connor to do, except it happens to be a girl doing it. It's hard to for them to justify this so they had to create an overly eleborate backround explaining a lineage that count amount to this, and then wound up in a situation where if they went too much into that back story it would become increasingly contrived and impractical, so as a result those details, and also a lot of those of the world where this was going on in, had to be glossed over to a greater degree than other installments, because if you take a microscope to it, it can't really justify it's own fictions while maintaining a degree of realism if it's examine too closely.
I'm not pretty much saying that I think Assasin's Creed should remain a boy's club, or that I have a problem with a female character. I'm just saying that I think I see why this didn't work, something that was already established in the review. I get why people want their female assasin, and also why Ubisoft tried it, but I also get why aspects of the game's storyline and such fell apart and had to be glossed over.
See, it's not so much about the idea of it being a girl, fantasy is full of that kind of stuff, but about the period, and a big part of the selling point to be authentic seeming. That's doable when your dealing with characters that blend with the time period, but not when your dealing with something that's directly against the sensibilities of the time.
It's sort of like how there is no reason you couldn't have a black assasin in general, but it's not going to work for this kind of game if your setting it in an enviroment where slavery is practiced. For generations of Americans the idea of freeing the blacks wasn't an issue, a lot of the states that fought against slavery themselves owned slaves for a goodly amount of time before thingst started to change and it caused a divide. If you had some black dude running around unattended that wasn't going to go unnoticed or turn out well. The period just wasn't progressive enough, and was bloody offesive compared to modern morality. When it comes to women we're not even to the point of women as second class citizens at this point, some woman running around by herself, unattended, is pretty much unheard of, that attendance being other women if nothing else. A woman is always going to be expected to be working at low social levels, or to be accounted for at higher ones.
The concept of a female assasin at this societal level can be done, as could the concept of a black one for that matter, but it would be nothing like Assasin's Creed and that way of doing things.
That said, it remains to be seen if they will do the idea again. As I said before, I think they shouldn't try and visit the idea again until the early 20th century. It can be done earlier, around the 1850s on, but only if you want to give up any pretensions of recreationism and go for a spaghetti western type vibe.
WHY? assasin kills...runs away "oh look its a women" doesnt change the fact she escapes and hidesTherumancer said:
why is it so hard to a woman to blend with the crowd? I mean christ you saw ezios outfit in Brotherhood...don;t tell me theres any excude for that other than suspension of disbelife and "whats gong on in gameplay doesnt represent the events of the story 100%"
[quote/]It's sort of like how there is no reason you couldn't have a black assasin in general, but it's not going to work for this kind of game if your setting it in an enviroment where slavery is practiced. [/quote]
the guy who trains Connor was an assasn and black (ex assasin at that point) so too late?
[quote/]The concept of a female assasin at this societal level can be done, as could the concept of a black one for that matter, but it would be nothing like Assasin's Creed and that way of doing things.[/quote]
this is a thing you keep saying and a thing you keep failing to explain you know if the game more closley resembles the original assasns creed it wouldn't matter if the protagonist was female or a man with green skin it really wouldn't matter
Well, now that I know it has no relation to the main, batshit bullshit retarded storyline of the flagship Assassin Creed games, I may very well actually buy this. Aventine looks like a cool gal and the costume mechanics intrigue me. I always took issue to no one realizing a hooded figure was slinking off into the crowd after someone was stabbed to death in public.
I'm certain I wasn't the only one that put the controller down after the magical Pope and the whole God was aliens and Eden was a space ship and humans were naked slaves thing.
