Assassin's Creed IV Director Didn't Consider Female Protagonists

[Phrozenflame500]

I always thought refusing female protagonists because they didn't "connect" with the male demographic is a lazy cop out so they don't have to develop actually interesting characters. I'm willing to play as a hideous monster if him/her/it is an interesting character, and I think it's more just companies unwilling to put effort into a character who can't fall back on the "generic action hero" stereotype to make it through. I sort of get the whole "not historically accurate angle", but really it's far more historically accurate [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_piracy] then magical apples, jumping 1000 feet into hay bales and the aforementioned assassin pirates.

I don't really think it's sexist though. It's more due to reluctance in alienating the "male" gaming demographic then actual sexism.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Nothing to see here really. "Never thought about it" sounds reasonable. If he said that they would never even consider it because it's bad business then it'd be something to scoff at. Even if that is the real reason, we can't know for sure and shouldn't judge.

Although I think giving developers a quick reminder about female attention every now and then could be beneficial.

Do these game developers get special training on how to fuck up interviews or something?

That's the reasons they come up with? And then end it with a great patronizing "Your day will come ladies, just not now."...

Couldn't they just have said that since every Assassin's Creed protagonist thus far has looked kinda exactly the same apart from a minor change in clothing to match the current era they're going to keep doing that? That changing it would be kinda like having the next Tomb Raider be about Lara's brother...

Actually, Ismail was never quoted as saying that. The one who wrote the article said that. Take a closer look.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

It was brought up earlier, but ACIII: Liberation had a female protagonist.

I'm afraid I don't understand people's problems with his statement. It was especially uncommon for women to be captains. So, we'd have to have a woman who was trained to be an assassin, could also get a ship and crew to follow her, and be intimidating. That would be a very hard sell in a video game.

Is there any female protagonist that anyone would even give the last attribute to? Sure, you can blame developers... or you can just look at basic human nature. Most women aren't really cut out for it in general, and I think men would generally be better in that profession. I would say the same thing for soldiers, mercenaries, Presidents... some things men would just be better at.

Now "Cooking Mama"?... that is a strong female protagonist who is believable

I... I'm just going to hope this is a joke... I mean... It should be a joke... It has to be... But, I've seen worse... I mean, this just has to be a joke right? Right?

 

[Comando96]

To be fair to Assassins creeds historical roots... women... sorry but throughout history women have sadly been overlooked and most of the power was with men. The crusades "what are you doing here woman" would have been the first question asked to the assassin by everyone... because its the crusades ¬.¬

Even with Renesaunce Italy women did have more power, a lot more, but the power was still tied to men.

Spoiler

Ezio's sister became an assassin and other women but... it was largely down to Ezio's position as an assassin.

As we get closer to the era of the womans sufferage movement, it does become a feasible possibility to have a female assassin as a protaganist. From a historical perspective at least.

Otherwise *tries not to sound patronising* you go girl.
I don't really mind what gender my stabby stabby character is

 

[Jamous]

Disappointing that the idea just didn't occur to them at all, but it'd be a lot of fun to see a female Assassin's Creed main character. It'd likely be good for female game characters in general because of how big the series is. At least I hope that's how it'd go.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

this isnt fucking news! this isnt anything! this is just another fox news-esque attempt at starting flame wars. its essentially trolling. there has also never been a black assassin in the lead role, or a philipino, or a transgender, or a yeti, or a quadrapalegic assassin... WHO GIVES A FUCK? that doesnt even IMPLY sexism. they are telling a story. is there some sort of quota writers need to fill now? i'm so sick of all this Political Correctness. is it sexist that Faith from Mirror's Edge is a female? NO! is it sexist that Ezio isn't? NO!

Firstly, they have had ethnic minorities. Altair is Middle-Eastern (though yes, he sounds and acts nothing like that), and Connor is Native-American. Saying that they have some racial bias is quite clearly inaccurate all things considered. Yet they have not had a female protagonist, they have apparently been dismissive towards the idea of a female protagonist (so far), and they think that having a female protagonist would hurt their bottom line. That may not scream sexism, but it certainly isn't something they should be doing or saying. It's definitely ignorant and it definitely makes no sense.

uh, i wasnt claiming racial bias. i waspointing out how ridiculous it is to complain that their character didnt meet some quota. and are you saying that being native american is the same as philipino? oh they hit the minority thing, no ned to touch on any other group... this is just pointless bullshit. the character is what it is and isnt what it isnt. and as for "no females" i urge you to look up assassins creed on the ps vita. they didnt even consider a male protagonist for that game! haha. see my point here?

Okay, are we all going to seriously just keep bringing up some stupid side-story game for the Vita as evidence that any criticism of them is unfounded? I never even heard about it until this very thread. It also has nothing to do with the comments he made and how idiotic they are.

so your ignorance to a particular title and you dismissive attitude towards its platform means that it doesnt count? right, completely logical there.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

this isnt fucking news! this isnt anything! this is just another fox news-esque attempt at starting flame wars. its essentially trolling. there has also never been a black assassin in the lead role, or a philipino, or a transgender, or a yeti, or a quadrapalegic assassin... WHO GIVES A FUCK? that doesnt even IMPLY sexism. they are telling a story. is there some sort of quota writers need to fill now? i'm so sick of all this Political Correctness. is it sexist that Faith from Mirror's Edge is a female? NO! is it sexist that Ezio isn't? NO!

Firstly, they have had ethnic minorities. Altair is Middle-Eastern (though yes, he sounds and acts nothing like that), and Connor is Native-American. Saying that they have some racial bias is quite clearly inaccurate all things considered. Yet they have not had a female protagonist, they have apparently been dismissive towards the idea of a female protagonist (so far), and they think that having a female protagonist would hurt their bottom line. That may not scream sexism, but it certainly isn't something they should be doing or saying. It's definitely ignorant and it definitely makes no sense.

uh, i wasnt claiming racial bias. i waspointing out how ridiculous it is to complain that their character didnt meet some quota. and are you saying that being native american is the same as philipino? oh they hit the minority thing, no ned to touch on any other group... this is just pointless bullshit. the character is what it is and isnt what it isnt. and as for "no females" i urge you to look up assassins creed on the ps vita. they didnt even consider a male protagonist for that game! haha. see my point here?

Okay, are we all going to seriously just keep bringing up some stupid side-story game for the Vita as evidence that any criticism of them is unfounded? I never even heard about it until this very thread. It also has nothing to do with the comments he made and how idiotic they are.

so your ignorance to a particular title and you dismissive attitude towards its platform means that it doesnt count? right, completely logical there.

No, the fact that it is an entirely secondary game almost certainly made by a B-team that is not part of the main series but is in fact a total side-story does. It'd be like calling Metal Gear a card battle series because of the Acid spin-offs, or calling Big Boss the true protagonist of the series because he has appeared in a large number of non-cannon spin-off titles. To be honest I'd almost be willing to dismiss revelations on the same grounds if there wasn't a small amount of important details regarding Desmond in it. Also, great job ignoring that last sentence there entirely. No matter what occurs in some spin off game it does not excuse the comments this guy made and how moronic they are.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

It was brought up earlier, but ACIII: Liberation had a female protagonist.

I'm afraid I don't understand people's problems with his statement. It was especially uncommon for women to be captains. So, we'd have to have a woman who was trained to be an assassin, could also get a ship and crew to follow her, and be intimidating. That would be a very hard sell in a video game.

Is there any female protagonist that anyone would even give the last attribute to? Sure, you can blame developers... or you can just look at basic human nature. Most women aren't really cut out for it in general, and I think men would generally be better in that profession. I would say the same thing for soldiers, mercenaries, Presidents... some things men would just be better at.

Now "Cooking Mama"?... that is a strong female protagonist who is believable

I... I'm just going to hope this is a joke... I mean... It should be a joke... It has to be... But, I've seen worse... I mean, this just has to be a joke right? Right?

Of course its a joke!

Cooking Mama doesn't show any of the right ways to cook! Completely unbelievable.

Now... stay with me on this one... we make a game that uses wii-motes like crocheting needles so that young girls can learn some of the basics of needlepoint! Knitting Mama!

Ooh! How about "Trading Mama"! You sell off your daughters trying to get the most amount of goats or chickens, but you can't haggle too long or they'll become old spinsters. The whole point of the game is to rack up the number of farm animals you collect while making sure that your offspring have plenty o' babies!

Or... this is a good one too... Voting Mama! A game centered completely on women walking past voting booths because they know that politics is not their place!

Does anybody know anything about game development? We can fix society!

Firstly, thank God, secondly...

How about Soccer Momma? Drive your kids to athletic events and manage every aspect of their social lives, making certain to leave no free time to yourself or them. In the later segments of the game you can bemoan how they never call or visit since going off to college, and how they married another boy instead of the nice church going girl you introduced them to. Remember to keep your passive aggression levels high!

Baby Momma! Master the art of having children with whatever man is willing to shove a piston up your shaft! Work hard at the 7-11 when pregnant and at the strip club when you currently not fulfilling your God-given duty of bring more mouths to feed into the world. Make sure that your children always have a distant and uncaring male influence in their lives. Remember to start early, education and a career is for the many fathers of your children.

 

[Scorpid]

I don't know why they're even going the pirate route. Piracy in history is more important as fanciful fictional stories then actual importance. Why they don't go for endlessly more interesting eras in history is beyond me. I mean they have to do the French revolution one of these days because that was by far the most important single event that brought the end to the monarchies of Europe then anything (including the American revolution). If they do a wild west assassins creed before that I'll have to tap out of this series because they're just doing 50's tv serial adventures then actual exploration of history.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

this isnt fucking news! this isnt anything! this is just another fox news-esque attempt at starting flame wars. its essentially trolling. there has also never been a black assassin in the lead role, or a philipino, or a transgender, or a yeti, or a quadrapalegic assassin... WHO GIVES A FUCK? that doesnt even IMPLY sexism. they are telling a story. is there some sort of quota writers need to fill now? i'm so sick of all this Political Correctness. is it sexist that Faith from Mirror's Edge is a female? NO! is it sexist that Ezio isn't? NO!

Firstly, they have had ethnic minorities. Altair is Middle-Eastern (though yes, he sounds and acts nothing like that), and Connor is Native-American. Saying that they have some racial bias is quite clearly inaccurate all things considered. Yet they have not had a female protagonist, they have apparently been dismissive towards the idea of a female protagonist (so far), and they think that having a female protagonist would hurt their bottom line. That may not scream sexism, but it certainly isn't something they should be doing or saying. It's definitely ignorant and it definitely makes no sense.

uh, i wasnt claiming racial bias. i waspointing out how ridiculous it is to complain that their character didnt meet some quota. and are you saying that being native american is the same as philipino? oh they hit the minority thing, no ned to touch on any other group... this is just pointless bullshit. the character is what it is and isnt what it isnt. and as for "no females" i urge you to look up assassins creed on the ps vita. they didnt even consider a male protagonist for that game! haha. see my point here?

Okay, are we all going to seriously just keep bringing up some stupid side-story game for the Vita as evidence that any criticism of them is unfounded? I never even heard about it until this very thread. It also has nothing to do with the comments he made and how idiotic they are.

so your ignorance to a particular title and you dismissive attitude towards its platform means that it doesnt count? right, completely logical there.

No, the fact that it is an entirely secondary game almost certainly made by a B-team that is not part of the main series but is in fact a total side-story does. It'd be like calling Metal Gear a card battle series because of the Acid spin-offs, or calling Big Boss the true protagonist of the series because he has appeared in a large number of non-cannon spin-off titles. To be honest I'd almost be willing to dismiss revelations on the same grounds if there wasn't a small amount of important details regarding Desmond in it. Also, great job ignoring that last sentence there entirely. No matter what occurs in some spin off game it does not excuse the comments this guy made and how moronic they are.

tell me exactly what he said that was wrong or offensive. quote this article for me, please. what i'm reading him saying is:

1. we had the idea to tell the story of these three people.
2. there werent many female pirates and to have one written as the main would have to mean that her gender would HAVE to be brought up, making the focus her gender, not her person.
3. expect to see a female protagonist one day.

a female lead would have to be in a time and culture that her presence wouldnt be out of the norm, so that her gender isnt the main focus, as it would have to be in this particular setting. but please, show me the offensive part.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

tell me exactly what he said that was wrong or offensive. quote this article for me, please. what i'm reading him saying is:

1. we had the idea to tell the story of these three people.
2. there werent many female pirates and to have one written as the main would have to mean that her gender would HAVE to be brought up, making the focus her gender, not her person.
3. expect to see a female protagonist one day.

a female lead would have to be in a time and culture that her presence wouldnt be out of the norm, so that her gender isnt the main focus, as it would have to be in this particular setting. but please, show me the offensive part.

I said and have been saying they are stupid, not offensive.

1. That's not what he said. What he said and how he phrased it was dumb. He could have said, "We chose to tell the story of these people, they were all male," but instead he essentially said, "we never considered telling the story of a female." My problem is with his phrasing here, it's just stupid. I don't think he means it that way, at least he probably didn't, but that's the way it sounds.
2. That is a moronic statement. Female pirates appear in all kinds of fiction. Female assassins appear in all kinds of fiction. What they have to deal with is what we are willing to believe, not what is absolutely historically accurate. Otherwise we wouldn't have had a brothel of nuns in AC2. A storyteller of any sort should know better.
3. Edit-Whoops

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

(sigh) I'm just not going to win in this thread...

Put it this way, in society right now, there are more men who are better at certain things. There are also some male characters I like better than some female characters, or some archetypes of character I prefer to have be males over females, when considering the things I have seen, read, or played so far. I am in no way saying that women cannot be things, just observing that some things are the way that they are. And that Clinton and Pelosi are unlikable individuals.

 

[xaszatm]

snip

Alright, at this point I can't tell if your being serious are not but your post does bring something I want to point out so...

One of the arguments being talked about (here anyways) seems to be on the fact that women pirates weren't all that common during the time period. My question is...so? Why would we want to play the "common" stuff? That's real life! Heck, if it was a pirate women, that would add so much more to the story. Not only must this person have to face multiple enemies and natural dangers, but must convince a VERY sexist world on her right to be who she is. That's a wonderful story to explore in a game!

As for the announcement itself, I believe them. They did have an idea of what they wanted to do. Since it's their game, their story, and their ideas, I can't fault them for that.

 

[StewShearerOld]

Just to clarify for everyone visiting the IGN article.

The quote: "if you look at what sells, it's tough to justify something like that" was actually from Chris Perna of Epic Games. They brought it up in their piece because it related to the interview they were discussing. It was not said by Mr. Ismail.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Just to clarify for everyone visiting the IGN article.

The quote: "if you look at what sells, it's tough to justify something like that" was actually from Chris Perna of Epic Games. They brought it up in their piece because it related to the interview they were discussing. It was not said by Mr. Ismail.

Oh, thanks then. I only skimmed the other article.

 

[Legion]

*snip*

I thought Ezio was great in AC2 as there was character development. He started off as a young womaniser, then grows up when he sees his family betrayed. Starts off as an amateur Assassin and eventually grows into it. I just felt with the next two nothing really changed. It was like they had him there purely because "who else could it be?"

As for the lack of female leads selling games, I agree, I do think the attitude is more down to developers and publishers playing it safe and making assumptions rather than gamers actually being bothered. Like the way that they still try and sell some games using "sexy women", when the vast majority of people just blank it out. I think it says more about the game creators than the players that we don't have more female leads.