At what point did you know who the killer was in Heavy Rain? (*SPOILERS*)

[dscross]

Having completed Until Dawn, it inspired me to run through Heavy Rain again. This is my second run through so I knew what was coming, although I took some very different decisions to see a different ending.

Anyway, it got me thinking, how long did it take you to work out who the killer was? In my first run through, I didn't suspect right up until the point that Jayden worked out it was someone who had access to police evidence. But by that point it was pretty much the very next scene where we explicitly knew. Any of you bright enough to work it out earlier?

 

[tippy2k2]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

I really enjoyed that game but that ending left an incredibly sour taste in my mouth. I hate freaking twists like that where it's a twist because they put a bag over your head and didn't give you info you should have known as the character. Complete and utter BS.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It wasn't until the reveal or right before that I figured it out I guess. But I really don't try to figure out twists and whatnot in the plot unless there's something that just feels off or wrong the whole time like say a "mindfuck" movie. I instantly figured out Shutter Island and it was annoying finally getting to the reveal point when it was so obvious what it was. Also, I figured out exactly when the twist happen in Vanilla Sky because of the visual cues, but I didn't figure out exactly what was happening until the actual reveal, I just knew something changed.

 

[Bobular]

I didn't get it till the scene where he was burning evidence, I think even with the evidence that was there it would be a massive leap to come to the correct conclusion on your first go through.

 

[Req]

Considering the game almost directly lies to you when you're controlling the killer, I didn't figure it out until the game revealed it. Because why would I suspect the guy when I could see him thinking about how he wanted to catch the killer?

 

[dscross]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

I really enjoyed that game but that ending left an incredibly sour taste in my mouth. I hate freaking twists like that where it's a twist because they put a bag over your head and didn't give you info you should have known as the character. Complete and utter BS.

I thought it was quite cleverly done.

It was quite shocking to play through again and listen to his thoughts. The context changed everything. Basically we were following his thoughts as he planned to murder and kill and just took them as him gathering evidence to find Kramer's son guilty. He never once says what the evidence was for, and he never admits in his mind that Kramer is OK.

His thoughts take on a whole new light in the new context, and they definitely make sense. If you read the interview with David Cage (the game's creator) he points out how he took great care crafting dialogue that would have both meanings yet not reveal anything. I think it's done very well.

With the Manfred scene, there is a very very deliberate break where the camera goes to Lauren, and Shelby sort of reappears and makes a weird face, and it's clear that something fishy happened. I noticed the weird cut the first time I played but I didn't think much of it, but clearly I see what it was now.

Replay it and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

This.

The game deliberately withholds first-hand information just so you don't find out. It was really cheap.

 

[gsilver]

Just before the official reveal: The part where they made it obvious (without outright stating it)

I was flubbing up most of his attempts at coverups, though.

 

[tippy2k2]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

I really enjoyed that game but that ending left an incredibly sour taste in my mouth. I hate freaking twists like that where it's a twist because they put a bag over your head and didn't give you info you should have known as the character. Complete and utter BS.

I thought it was quite cleverly done.

It was quite shocking to play through again and listen to his thoughts. The context changed everything. Basically we were following his thoughts as he planned to murder and kill and just took them as him gathering evidence to find Kramer's son guilty. He never once says what the evidence was for, and he never admits in his mind that Kramer is OK.

His thoughts take on a whole new light in the new context, and they definitely make sense. If you read the interview with David Cage (the game's creator) he points out how he took great care crafting dialogue that would have both meanings yet not reveal anything. I think it's done very well.

With the Manfred scene, there is a very very deliberate break where the camera goes to Lauren, and Shelby sort of reappears and makes a weird face, and it's clear that something fishy happened. I noticed the weird cut the first time I played but I didn't think much of it, but clearly I see what it was now.

Replay it and you'll see what I mean.

The thought parts I can kind of let go. I'll take your word for it that he doesn't directly ever think "Boy I hope I can figure out how to catch the killer!". It's weird that during the entire investigation, he never once thinks "Hey, I'm getting away with murdering all these people!" but sure, I'll give you that.

The scene in the store though, when it takes away your control from him for that small window (when he murders that dude) is absolute Grade A bullshit. If you want to argue that it was misdirection and accept it then I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise (if it helped you like the game more then more power to you) but I felt like it was such a punk move by the game that my opinion of the entire thing dropped considerably.

It reminds me of a M Night twist (well...at least back when he was good at it like The Sixth Sense) versus a JJ Abrhams "Twist". A good twist will allow you to realistically figure it out and give you all of the information needed. A bad twist just puts the bag over your eyes and doesn't give you information and then when it pulls the bag away, it expects to be treated as a "brilliant trick" rather than just BS.

 

[bluegate]

The moment I accidentally read a spoiler on the internet, sad, I know, but whatcha gonna do.

 

[DoPo]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

This.

The game deliberately withholds first-hand information just so you don't find out. It was really cheap.

It doesn't merely "withold" it literally lies to you. In the confrontation between the high tech FBI guy and "the killer", the latter is obviously not the old asthmatic overweight detective. Yet he is. Even if he doesn't even look like the guy. The inclusion of that scene is utterly bizarre at the very least and doesn't work. It's not the only one, either - another scene that comes to mind is the murdering the old guy in his workshop after leading the prostitute there, so they can investigate his own letter. It again makes absolutely no logical sense and "failing" the scene is pretty much pointless, as well.

As with all David Cage games, it's an ambitious story told poorly and has a bunch of people who don't act as people.

 

[dscross]

I never figured it out because it was, as Yahtzee would say, a Pants on Head Retarded twist.

This.

The game deliberately withholds first-hand information just so you don't find out. It was really cheap.

It doesn't merely "withold" it literally lies to you. In the confrontation between the high tech FBI guy and "the killer", the latter is obviously not the old asthmatic overweight detective. Yet he is. Even if he doesn't even look like the guy. The inclusion of that scene is utterly bizarre at the very least and doesn't work. It's not the only one, either - another scene that comes to mind is the murdering the old guy in his workshop after leading the prostitute there, so they can investigate his own letter. It again makes absolutely no logical sense and "failing" the scene is pretty much pointless, as well.

As with all David Cage games, it's an ambitious story told poorly and has a bunch of people who don't act as people.

1. Why can an asthmatic not fight once he's used his inhaler? He's not that overweight either, he looks like he can pack a punch. I don't get why you don't think that fight works
2. He came to kill Manfred so no one could ask questions, not to investigate anything in reality (it's a cover story). There's a cut away when you aren't controlling him where he commits the murder.

 

[DoPo]

1. Why can an asthmatic not fight once he's used his inhaler? He's not that overweight either, he looks like he can pack a punch. I don't get why you don't think that fight works

Because the guy in the coat doesn't look like the detective. His silhouette is very clearly different.

Oh, and the only reason I mention him being asthmatic is because the game sort of forgets that. Just shows him using an inhaler a couple of times and that detail almost never comes back. At least all the other characters' distinctive flaws legitimately impacted them.

2. He came to kill Manfred so no one could ask questions, not to investigate anything in reality (it's a cover story). There's a cut away when you aren't controlling him where he commits the murder.

It's stupid because the only reason somebody would ask questions is because he's the only one stupid enough to use a rather unique type writer. Moreover, he outright TELLS THAT to that hooker lady when he goes "Oh, this letter is written on a typewriter. Gee, that could be a lead. Let's go to the typewriter guy and ask, eh?". Not only that, but he gets her there to the shop. His plan was to have her as a "witness", so she could deny it was him...only, it's stupid because he'd only need that if there was anybody there with him. Furthermore, the plan hinges on a million things that could have gone wrong - what if somebody managed to see that murder? What if the hooker lady decided to peek at the last possible moment? What if the old guy doesn't die in one shot? Oh, and he throws an additional condition in his own plan by phoning the police, so he could put a time pressure and claim they need to run. That is utter stupidity. Oh, and he also needs to wipe all the fingerprints off everything, just in case. It's a stupid plan and each detail required to make it work, makes it stupider.

Yes, the old guy might need to be dealt with but all those loops and hoops thrown in there are useless. You know why? Have you seen what happens if you fail to cover your tracks? Nothing. He ends up in the police station being questioned and just gets released without much fuss at all. The layers of idiocy in the plan just plain culminate with a big nothing in the end.