At what point is something 'alive'?

[littlerob]

This is going to get ever more relevant as technology advances. Just what is the point where you stop and say, 'okay, this is technically alive now'?

I guess first you'd have to define 'life'. Reproduction, I suppose, could be included as criteria - an ability to create more of oneself, through whatever means. Breathing is not necessarily there - do bacteria 'breathe'? I don't think so (although I'm not a microbiologist, so I'm fully prepared to be called out on that) - breathing is more of a byproduct of life than an actual indicators; after all, artificial lungs 'breathe', but they aren't alive. An ability to percieve things around it? Probably not, since there are a few creatures out there with no senses. Trees, for one. Growth? Maybe. I'm on the fence with that one. I'm not aware of any organism that doesn't grow, but it doesn't seem like an impossibility either. Reactions? I suppose.

So in the end, we have the ability to reproduce, grow and react to stimulus.

Now consider nanotechnology. We already have computers that can react. Nanotechnology, and the capacity to program nanomachines to build things that in turn build more nanomachines, means that reproduction, or at least replication, is viable in the future. But when you have, say, a machine comprised of trillions of nanomachines, that can create more and use them to repair or expand itself (a logical conclusion), then isn't that filling all the criteria for life? Maybe not sapient or natural life, but life nontheless.

I suppose this could also encompass Artificial Intelligence, but that's not what I'm focussing on. If you get into that, it's a thorny issue when people start bringing up souls and the like. What I'm asking is when technology can equal biology, on a basic level at least, at what point does it become 'alive'?

Your thoughts, Escapists?

 

[Plauged1]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

 

[littlerob]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

 

[Lukirre]

Bacteria are very basic forms of life.
In fact, the most basic.

Archaebacteria and Eubacteria are the most basic forms of life that we can find, and are classified as so under the six kingdoms.

The reason that I do not consider technology to be alive is because it is created from non-living things. I don't think that nanomachines are capable of reproduction, but then again I'm so uneducated on nanotechnology that I'm taking a wild guess.

 

[Lukirre]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Parasites are alive.

Though to be more specific, certain things are parasitic.
Tapeworms are very much living things, and they are parasitic.
Warts are parasitic fungi.

 

[pffh]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Bacteria are very basic forms of life.
In fact, the most basic.

Ahem viruses, viroids and prions would like to have a word with you. Although it is highly debatable if they really are alive most agree that viruses are living. Viroids and prions are a bit tricky.

 

[Skeleon]

This is a very interesting topic.
Reproduction is part of it, although that's a bit broad. Think of a virus. Is a virus alive? Uncertain.
Bacteria do breath on a cellular level, like we do.
Many consider an own metabolism a requirement (so virus wouldn't be part of the living creatures), but it's not really possible to use that, either, since there are bacteria-species that don't have a fully developed metabolism, either (they require host cells like virus).
Growth? Well, it's linked with metabolism again.
The ability to change, evolve? Well, virus do that, too. Not enough, unless you include virus as a lifeform.
Reaction to stimulus? Again, a part of it I guess. Bacteria react to changing pH-values with migration or follow a trail of glucose to "richer feeding grounds".
The real problem here is where to draw the line.
It'll always end up a bit arbitrary.

As for your nano-question, well. If you add the ability to adapt over time (random mutations as in biological life or maybe directed mutation as an artifical way), you might get something resembling life, yes.
And life doesn't have to be sentient to be considered life, like you said.

I guess, again, it's a question of arbitrary definition. Because "life" is such a foggy subject, the answer to your question of whether your example would be life will be equally as foggy.
Personally, I'd say it can be life.

After all, the universe is vast.
We don't know enough about it, but for all we know, there could be silicoid lifeforms or energy-based or whatever. Those would not necessarily follow the same rules as "our life", either.

But, again, life isn't well enough defined because of the gray areas in our own microcosm. It's therefore impossible to fully answer your question.

EDIT: Viroids and prions, yeah. One is basically a virus without a complex hull, the other an "infectous protein".
Again, depending on which aspects of "life" we apply, one might argue whether these two are alive or not.
Neither have a metabolism.
But both reproduce.
Viroids can evolve, while prions can't.
And, as far as I know, neither react to stimuli.

 

[Beffudled Sheep]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Thats all they do? They serve no other purpose but to reproduce?

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Hmm... Actually I take that back, alive is classified as not being dead. So whatever isn't dead but still reproduces and goes through life processes such as respiration and photosynthesis..I would classify viriods as being alive, seeing as they are basically micro viruses that affect plants..

 

[Plauged1]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Not really, until they grow much attached to the host, and would rather rot than abandon it. Like ripping off a tick on a dog, and it keeps coming back for reasons all its own. So many hosts and some much better, that tick has something for that dog other than blood. (Cause in my opinion, blood is blood and doesn't matter who it comes from.)

 

[Sergeant M. Fudgey]

I usually only consider things with ability to conceive new things to be truly "alive". I also would like to call you out on the reproduction bit, there have been organisms (humans included) that due to mutations are unable to reproduce, but they are nonetheless alive.

I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

something like that, although I would consider a bit broader term than "natural bondage".

 

[Avatar Roku]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Bacteria are very basic forms of life.
In fact, the most basic.

Ahem viruses, viroids and prions would like to have a word with you. Although it is highly debatable if they really are alive most agree that viruses are living. Viroids and prions are a bit tricky.

Virus's aren't considered alive, they can't reproduce without taking over a cell, meaning that they need outside help.

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Thats all they do? They serve no other purpose but to reproduce?

Same with humans, if you think about it.

 

[pffh]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Thats all they do? They serve no other purpose but to reproduce?

Prions are basically a certain type of protein in the brain that has the wrong shape. They then force other proteins of the same type into the wrong shape that in turn do the same.
Mad cow disease and creutzfeldt jacobs syndrom are examples of prion diseases.

 

[101194]

Infact, Just about everything is alive, If it can adapt to its surrondings, Its basicly alive, Plants, Humans, Bacteria Even Robots and Parasites, As long as it can adapt to continue its existance, Seeking to improving its life, Then yeah, I'd say its alive. But then again I don't exactly believe in souls, So...Tough call.

 

[Lukirre]

Things like this are usually a tough call...but, I think something is alive when it can have a natural bondage with someone or something, other than reproduction or necessity of life like a parasite.

So by that logic, are parasites alive?

Of course parasites are alive, what you should be asking yourself are prions alive? They can reproduce and that's about it really.

Bacteria are very basic forms of life.
In fact, the most basic.

Ahem viruses, viroids and prions would like to have a word with you. Although it is highly debatable if they really are alive most agree that viruses are living. Viroids and prions are a bit tricky.

I was being general.
Don't hate the 'teria.

 

[ae86gamer]

Infact, Just about everything is alive, If it can adapt to its surrondings, Its basicly alive, Plants, Humans, Bacteria Even Robots and Parasites, As long as it can adapt to continue its existance, Seeking to improving its life, Then yeah, I'd say its alive. But then again I don't exactly believe in souls, So...Tough call.

^This.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Scientifically, When its aware of itself. Doesn't work for that baby that was born with no consious,hearing, talking (ability), sight or smell/taste yet the mother insisted she keep it (doubt it'll make it past a year), But thats up to her.

 

[Keivz]

Difficult to say. The most basic form of life is probably the virus; however, that's controversial as they lack a basic cellular structure. They do, however, have genes so in my opinion, they are alive.

I don't think there's really a strict definition. As has been said before--it's all sort of arbitrary. Per m-w:
life : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction

So would a human in a persistent vegetative state be considered alive or not (i.e. dead)?

 

[pffh]

I think something it truly 'alive' when it is capable of feeling any form of emotions.

Scientifically, When its aware of itself. Doesn't work for that baby that was born with no consious,hearing, talking (ability), sight or smell/taste yet the mother insisted she keep it (doubt it'll make it past a year), But thats up to her.

Wait so you don't consider plants and bacteria alive?

 

[Cliff_m85]

When they can think.