Atari Founder Warns Nintendo May be on The Way Out

[Something Amyss]

True. But they're still popular with the kids, who are their main demographic. Increasing fragmentation between them and the rest of the AAA game industry is virtually guaranteed at this point, but then, a lot of the rest of them appear to be shitting themselves at the moment. Things are kind of crazy across the board in this medium right now.

Indeed. And just because something could happen doesn't mean it will. And I don't think it will, but I can't preclude the notion.

 

[JayRPG]

I say Nintendo should make a successor to the N64 without any gimmicks. Just a nice powerful console like they used to make with the launch titles being a pokemon MMO and a next gen Metroid as an answer to Microsofts Halo and Sony's Killzone.

Wasn't that the Gamecube? And look what happened with that

The Gamecube sold 22 million units
The original Xbox sold 24 million units
The Dreamcast sold 10.6 million units

The only stand-out of that generation was the PS2.

While the gamecube is regarded as a failure by most in the west (for some reason), it actually didn't do that bad at all.

On a personal note, I love my gamecube, I still play it more often than my PS3.

When people tell me the graphics were bad, I tell them to go and play Baten Kaitos.
When people tell me there were no great games on it that you couldn't get on other consoles, I say:
Tales of symphonia (well it did get a very limited PS2 port very late in the generation)
Super smash bros.
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Eternal darkness
Baten Kaitos
Paper mario
Metroid prime
Fire emblem
Pokemon colosseum
Pokemon XD
Lost kingdoms
Lord of the rings the third age
Digimon world 4
Evolution worlds
Summoner: A goddess reborn
And those are just the ones I remember.

The gamecube may not have had as many games as other offerings but almost all of them were damn good.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Wii U Pokemon MMO. That is all.

Some people say that this would do well. I'm skeptical. I'm a decent MMO fan; I've played moooost of the big ones. I also enjoy Pokemon; myself and my brother probably have ~10 pokemon games between us. I still wouldn't play a Pokemon MMO. So I dunno.

Yeah, I'd be more than a bit skeptical.

I've seen this come up far too often, where people just think that you can take a popular game, tack on "MMO" and suddenly makes it more awesome just because WoW did it.

It doesn't work that way: It didn't even work that way for WoW, given that WoW is a pretty big departure from Warcraft's RTS roots.

Pokemon is no different. I don't see what the appeal would be in such an MMO given that the most interesting long-term elements of Pokemon are in 1 vs 1 trainer competitions OR individual collection progress.

Neither of which are staples of MMO appeal; like massive PvE raids or large scale PvP arenas.
(the key word is "MASSIVE")

Closest they could manage without changing the gameplay completely would be adding a massive series of trainer hubs like city hubs in most MMOs...which kinda already exists in online pokemon already.

And if they change the gameplay completely...it's not really "Pokemon" anymore. It's more of an MMO with the Pokemon setting.

 

[Roxas1359]

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The GameCube broke even luckily because Nintendo quickly stopped production of it. Nintendo had produced way more GameCube consoles than the amount that was actually selling, so they stopped making them in 2003 so as to save money and just focused on software and a few added peripherals (GameBoy Player for example).
The console was excellent, but it's considered a failure by the West because they still produced more consoles than what actually sold and it didn't make a profit. For me though it was still one of my favorite consoles though, and had probably the best controller for any console, which is why I always get confused as to why Nintendo didn't make a Pro Controller designed off the GameCube controller because I guarantee that people would love it.
I don't think I've ever seen people actually claim that the GameCube was bad, but when compared to it's competition, the PS2, it was a lot less. Then again all consoles are considered less when compared to the PS2, which is still selling units and is the best selling console of all time. In second is the original Nintendo DS.

 

[runic knight]

As for a Pokemon MMO, I don't think Nintendo has the online infrastructure to sustain one. And it would cannibalize the main series over on the handhelds - why would someone buy the next version when they can boot up a game with every region and Pokemon?

Because when a new generation of Pokemon comes out it won't be available on the MMO game.

Or they do like they did with pokemon stadium or the poke-walker or the various other peripherals they have used with the games. Or they could just release an expansion. Hell, they could have the handhelds be the main game (usually up to lvl 50 or so for the pokemon), and the mmo be a sort of endgame location because of how much longer it takes to level. It could be a completely different play style (from turn based to more action oriented. Worked for kingdom hearts). There is a lot they could do with the franchise in an mmo setting. Hell, they could make another pokemon snap and it would still probably be successful.

Hell, look at WoW. An rts with a solid single player experience and a highly competitive multiplayer audience made the transition into mmo pretty well. I am not saying a pokemmo would be the new king, merely that in terms of success, pokemon mmmo has the potential and the demand.

 

[Dragonbums]

That's dancing around the issue dude. If they spent hundreds of millions of dollars into making an MMO

Stop. They're not spending hundreds of millions. Swtor was a rare exception, but the idea is that they spend around 60 million dollars. And no, they're not making only 1 million dollars. Even with its bloated budget, Swtor has recouped their costs and then some and still remains profitable. Guild Wars 2, which only requires you to buy the game in retail for 60, has caused NCsoft's net income to rise 120 million in Q1 this year. The developers of Star Treak Online, DDO and Lotro are all stating similar profits. In short, just because they can't dethrone WoW doesn't mean they're not profitable. In fact, DDO saw a 500% increase in revenue as a result of going F2P. Lotro saw similar numbers and saw its revenue triple upon making the switch and Star Trek is reportably worth 50 million dollars to its developers.

You asked which MMOs were successful at recouping costs and remain profitable, I told you. Now you're trying to say that those don't count.

The only ones I said didn't count was TESO because it wasn't out yet, and WoW because it's obviously top dog in the genre.

A lot of MMO's that have come out have always claimed themselves to be "WoW killers" and all of them spend WoW budgets in the hopes that they will topple the throne.

 

[Dragonbums]

As for a Pokemon MMO, I don't think Nintendo has the online infrastructure to sustain one. And it would cannibalize the main series over on the handhelds - why would someone buy the next version when they can boot up a game with every region and Pokemon?

Because when a new generation of Pokemon comes out it won't be available on the MMO game.

Or they do like they did with pokemon stadium or the poke-walker or the various other peripherals they have used with the games. Or they could just release an expansion. Hell, they could have the handhelds be the main game (usually up to lvl 50 or so for the pokemon), and the mmo be a sort of endgame location because of how much longer it takes to level. It could be a completely different play style (from turn based to more action oriented. Worked for kingdom hearts). There is a lot they could do with the franchise in an mmo setting. Hell, they could make another pokemon snap and it would still probably be successful.

Hell, look at WoW. An rts with a solid single player experience and a highly competitive multiplayer audience made the transition into mmo pretty well. I am not saying a pokemmo would be the new king, merely that in terms of success, pokemon mmmo has the potential and the demand.

Those will all come AFTER the new generation games comes out, and often a year or so later like they do already with PBR and Pokemon Stadium.

 

[JayRPG]

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snip.

Oh I so agree on the controller, it was comfortable, control scheme was amazing - The variable triggers were so good for racing games.

I find it kind of funny though, The Gamecube was a failure in the west, the Xbox was a failure in the east but both were just trying to climb the insurmountable hill that was the PS2, I often wonder what that generation would've been like sans PS2 (Gamecube vs. xbox vs. Dreamcast)

 

[Dragonbums]

snip

snip.

Oh I so agree on the controller, it was comfortable, control scheme was amazing - The variable triggers were so good for racing games.

I find it kind of funny though, The Gamecube was a failure in the west, the Xbox was a failure in the east but both were just trying to climb the insurmountable hill that was the PS2, I often wonder what that generation would've been like sans PS2 (Gamecube vs. xbox vs. Dreamcast)

I predict the Wii would still be around since Nintendo are notorious for trying out new things and never sticking with the old.

I actually don't think anything much will change. Perhaps the graphical capabilities of the Xbox 350 wouldn't be so high since the PS2 didn't really raise the bar( nor did it exist.)

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

I believe that renewable fanbase are children. That is the same fanbase they have catered to since their inception, and they are the only game company to cater to said demographic since Microsoft and Sony for the most part seem to ignore their existence on a daily basis.

As somebody who volunteers around children often, I can tell you they're not playing nintendo titles. From what I've seen, biggest demographics for nintendo are adults and late teens. Most gaming kids are playing COD and Battlefield.

 

[Dragonbums]

I believe that renewable fanbase are children. That is the same fanbase they have catered to since their inception, and they are the only game company to cater to said demographic since Microsoft and Sony for the most part seem to ignore their existence on a daily basis.

As somebody who volunteers around children often, I can tell you they're not playing Nintendo titles. From what I've seen, biggest demographics for Nintendo are adults and late teens. Most gaming kids are playing COD and Battlefield.

I also volunteered as a summer camp for years, and has also volunteered for watching kids after school and I can tell you that there are always that group of kids that had a DS/3DS on them with Mario and Pokemon.

Also, if the summer camp you volunteer in question bans electronics in general then it's pretty hard to gauge out whether they actually like Nintendo games.

At least for my camp the devices (up until half way through summer because after multiple thefts they were banned indefinitely) kids played them during break time.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

I also volunteered as a summer camp for years, and has also volunteered for watching kids after school and I can tell you that there are always that group of kids that had a DS/3DS on them with Mario and Pokemon.

Also, if the summer camp you volunteer in question bans electronics in general then it's pretty hard to gauge out whether they actually like Nintendo games.

At least for my camp the devices (up until half way through summer because after multiple thefts they were banned indefinitely) kids played them during break time.

I do a year long thing with the scouting organisation, and none of them seem to really like Nintendo, or at least didn't own and/or didn't play on them. But, I'm in the UK, so it could be a difference with that, or with how Nintendo does have the handhold market pretty nailed down, and kids who enjoy videogames are more likely to bring a handheld on camp with them.

 

[Dragonbums]

I also volunteered as a summer camp for years, and has also volunteered for watching kids after school and I can tell you that there are always that group of kids that had a DS/3DS on them with Mario and Pokemon.

Also, if the summer camp you volunteer in question bans electronics in general then it's pretty hard to gauge out whether they actually like Nintendo games.

At least for my camp the devices (up until half way through summer because after multiple thefts they were banned indefinitely) kids played them during break time.

I do a year long thing with the scouting organisation, and none of them seem to really like Nintendo, or at least didn't own and/or didn't play on them. But, I'm in the UK, so it could be a difference with that, or with how Nintendo does have the handhold market pretty nailed down, and kids who enjoy videogames are more likely to bring a handheld on camp with them.

I guess it's different demographics then. Here in the US, the kids still go crazy over Mario (and the parties my parents hold with kids involve go apeshit over the NSMB games on my Wii.) so that along with summer camp, I think they have a good base for the new generation of young kids.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Bushell knows his stuff, but what he says will fall on deaf ears of some. Nintendo, I love their games and was raised on them, and where gaming is going its really sad to see Nintendo not wanting to dive and get dirty with us. They'll be left watching others play and have impact on the industry like they used to do.

Sure, Nintendo have lots in the bank but rich shareholders can easily pull their money out anytime, then they'd be up crap creek somewhat. It might never happen, according to some.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

Nintendo doesn't need the console market to "stay relevant". It has the best market out there right now, the handheld market.

The handheld market is big in the West, and even bigger in Japan. In fact part of the failure of the Wii U is the mere fact of the decline of the console market in Japan. Since handhelds sell better than consoles anyway, shouldn't we be more worried about Sony and the Vita? The Vita has been out longer than the Wii U and has sold far less.

And rest assured, sales of the Wii U will pick up. Especially with titles like Super Smash Bros. Wii U. Stuff like Wind Waker HD is already helping sales of the device to pick up.

Why do I get the feeling that a lot of these folks are also people still hanging on to a market grudge against Nintendo from when they held a market monopoly in the late 80s and early 90s? Even PBS was doing corporate busting specials on them back in the day. Atari is certainly a company that Nintendo helped destroy. Or rather, keep from rising again after they brought a game market crash on themselves. Atari struggled to get back into the market after the crash in no small part thanks to Nintendo. And Nintendo's filibustering of the industry of sorts I think is also to blame for SEGA's constant struggle and failure to get a foothold in the industry.

The NES revived the video game industry. But it also left a lot of people sore. And I'm sure Atari was one of those people.