Atheists, the new Catholics?

[NotMemorable]

No I second this. It realy seems like you can't say "Jesus" without an Aithiest stabbing you because "(non-existant supior being) forbid I was offended". Who is forcing their belief on me now? Like yes some Christians are bad for shoving belief where it's not wanted, but I think I should be able to say "God Bless you and keep you" without somebody losing it on me becuase they don't believe. Like thats a fuckin compliment, take it even if you don't believe.

I'm pretty sure every athiest just gets annoyed with thiests' stupidity. They want to make it clear that they are not a fucking retard christfag.

When someone says something like "God Bless you and keep you," I'll usually just call them a dipshit and move on. I certainly have never stabbed anyone, although that's not a bad suggestion.

If there were irrefutable proof that, say, the christian god existed, then I would still not worship it as it is a fucking idiot and obviously not omnipotent/omniscient.

Not so smart as you'd burn in hell for eternity, or are you going to take chances on that one? It's a little easy to just call someone an idiot because he defies your sense of logic.
And stop trolling, civil discussion will get you miles further than spreading hate.

 

[hobo_welf]

This happens everywhere.
Most of the people I know are religious of one flavor or another.
Most of them are quiet about it.
Then there are the few who never shut the fuck up about how everything you believe is wrong unless you believe what they do, because their flavor is arbitrarily the right one simply because they believe it is.

The point is, yes, there are atheists who treat atheism like a religion, and they're the fanatics.
And yes, they're annoying.
And yes, they're no better than the people they complain about.

But that's life, and that's human nature, and if you can change that, you must be god.

This. Just this.

 

[GHMonkey]

c'est la vie

This happens everywhere.
Most of the people I know are religious of one flavor or another.
Most of them are quiet about it.
Then there are the few who never shut the fuck up about how everything you believe is wrong unless you believe what they do, because their flavor is arbitrarily the right one simply because they believe it is.

The point is, yes, there are atheists who treat atheism like a religion, and they're the fanatics.
And yes, they're annoying.
And yes, they're no better than the people they complain about.

But that's life, and that's human nature, and if you can change that, you must be god.

This. Just this.

 

[Kubanator]

My answers to your sentences in order:
Yes
Dipshit
Prove it

You said that if God was proven to be real, then you wouldn't worship him. Thus if he is real, his punishment of hell is also real. Thus you would suffer for ever if you didn't spend 60 years doing what he wanted. It's irrational to trade an eternity of happiness for 60 years of free living.

 

[NotMemorable]

This thread has attracted the attention of some irritating high post members of the escapist community, but I'm going to throw down here anyway.

Oftentimes I believe the same thing you do, this is somewhat common on just about every forum I've ever been to, and they've forced me to come to this conclusion.

Religion isn't cool anymore. Maybe it wasn't ever cool. But either way, if you're an atheist, at least on the internet, you're now the majority, and if you're religious, you're now the minority.

Which unfortunately, means that I now root for the religious folk, simply because they're the underdog and rooting for the underdog has always been a pasttime of mine.

As for my own beliefs on the issue of "Is god fake? Is god real?" I'm not much for Catholicism's ability to condemn someone to eternal punishment based on where they put their dick, or where they shop or what music they listen to. I've never been a fan of the Muslim's tendency to blow themselves up (a horrible generalization), their sexism (even though a part of me likes that aspect a lot). And the Buddhists are too much like druids for me, not really giving a crap about anything except true neutrality.

However atheists take the cake in the irritation field. This is a difficult thing to say, because unlike most other faiths, the lack of a faith seems to make you cry out even louder when people say things contradictory to your own belief. You can't say "I like god" ANYWHERE on the internet (albeit a bible thumping site, but none of you have ever been there, have you?) without getting flamed almost instantaneously. I don't mean to be a dick, but this seems to have originated on 4chan.

Okay, so finally, I don't believe in a god in a traditional sense, but I believe in something, I'm not sure why, but I do. I can say that atheism, in it's general mindset, is incredibly useful to the human condition in that we've garnered a ton of scientific advances through saying "Science is my god!" but I will also argue that the faith that something will be there when you die is absolutely essential, moreso than scientific advances to our continued existence. Because frankly, all you atheists are just too damn scared to die.

I don't agree that "being cool" was ever of any significance. Also I'd like to state that religion has nothing to do with "believing in something more". Religion has a set of rules and attachments with it that makes it so (potentially) harmfull to our society. You said there's more atheists on-line, I'd say that causes them to be louder, I don't think Atheists are generally more inclined towards prick behaviour.

Faith is not essential, for some people it is a soothing thing because they cannot accept the concept of nothingness. But I would hardly call it essential, nobody knows what happens when we're dead so the real benefit in faith would have to be while alive. There's plenty of atheists who aren't depressed because they don't know what will happen if they die. And yes, atheists are scared of death, as anyone should be. For every single person death is a plunge in the deep, no one knows or will ever know what happens when we die. Some theists may be less scared of death because they're assured they'll go to heaven but is this rightly so? I say no! If theists are less scared of death than atheists, they're desillusioned.

 

[NotMemorable]

Not so smart as you'd burn in hell for eternity, or are you going to take chances on that one? It's a little easy to just call someone an idiot because he defies your sense of logic.
And stop trolling, civil discussion will get you miles further than spreading hate.

My answers to your sentences in order:
Yes
Dipshit
Prove it

Congratulations you just made even more an idiot out of yourself.

 

[Godheads_Lament]

The point is, yes, there are atheists who treat atheism like a religion, and they're the fanatics.
And yes, they're annoying.
And yes, they're no better than the people they complain about.

This is the only point I would (mildly) disagree with. There appears to be a perception of some atheists (Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens...) as fantatical, when indeed all they are doing is exposing faulty reasoning/logic within arguments for theism. Now, I'm not saying you implied these people specifically are good examples (and, as you said, there will always be truly fantatical people in any belief about anything) of fanatacism - however I would suggest that atheism is frequently portrayed as bashing religion or being intolerant of religion when all that is being done is an exposure of faulty reasoning. It begs the question of why we, as a whole, respect, and to a greater extent, are dictated to not question religion (though perhaps this is becoming less true) when religion should be questioned, and criticised, thoroughly.

 

[Kubanator]

I'm not sure hell would be that bad or that heaven would be that good.

A guy who has a infinite amount of power wants you to do x, so you choose to not do x.

 

[Kubanator]

Most, if not all, people see things from one point of view - theirs.
Furthermore, most people are arrogant.
They refuse to accept that anything they do could be wrong.

I look at things from a rational perspective, and then accept my mistake when my logical reasoning has been disproven.

Non-religious folk shout about how they're having religion forced on them while trying to force disbelief on others, usually loudly.

Atheists could care less whether personal religion is being forced on them. It's organized religion that's the problem. Such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

The point is, yes, there are atheists who treat atheism like a religion, and they're the fanatics.
And yes, they're annoying.
And yes, they're no better than the people they complain about.

You're telling me that enforcing religious laws from a legal perspective is no worse than telling someone their idea is wrong, and yours is right.

God is an idiot, and if he existed, I would hate him. When you go to heaven, you get to spend an infinite amount of time with him. I don't want to have to do that. Hell would be much more awesome and pain could be overcome easily given an eternity of time to do it.

A man of infinite intelligence is an idiot. And you're the genius. By definition god cannot be an idiot. By definition, you will experience infinite happiness in heaven, and infinite pain in hell. The pain cannot overcome. That's like saying you could escape from a black hole once past the horizon event.

 

[NotMemorable]

Because if you're questioning it, you probably don't believe it.
But you're not going to convince someone who does, no matter how sound your logic.

Exactly, I don't agree on the hypocracy part though. I think the atheist side (and yes I'm gonna be generalising here) has a pretty valid reason to feel the need to convert other people. Like I've pointed out earlier, religion is a presonal choice that has found it's way to the the leaders of a country and by extend to every one of our lives. It slows down our race, breeds war and destruction, this is something that needs to change, but for it to change religion must controll less minds.

 

[Kubanator]

Why are you talking about atheists like I'm not one of them?
Assumptions, that's why.

Please, post where I stated you were not an atheist. I didn't. You inferred it. You assumed that's what I meant. I have no care of what particular train of thought you follow, and in a world of rational, it doesn't matter. Please don't treat me as an idiot who can't think from a rational perspective.

 

[benoitowns]

See, I am an atheist, and this is because of a few reasons. The majority of religions I have found (as in all of them so far), are filled with bullshit. Yes, not just things I disagree with, but bullshit. Christianity is the easiest to pick on, so lets go with that. The whole gay thing, bullshit, What if Adam chose a male companion? Why is it unnatural to have sex in different ways? God gives us free will, but does not wish us to understand the science of life and evolution? The Bible says that Commandments apply to all the Children of God, His children. But The Bible also states that men have authority over women, women have to do as men say or burn in hell, and have to have children or burn in Hell. People who do not believe in you religion (as from the Christians point of view), are not Children of God for they have rejected him. Children of God have dominion over those who do not believe in exactly the same God with the same beliefs as you. (the Christian) This means one who is a Child of God may murder a Child of Satan, covet his wife and break any of the commandments to him/her without any consequences. Also, people in general live their lives subjectively morally. Why would an all powerful, all knowing and supposedly all understanding God punish people for trivial, menial, arbitrary things? It is not right to send people to hell for not have having sacraments,it is bullshit. Gods(overall) should not be giving people a test in their lives to see if they are living in a level of eternity as a God, when we ourselves are not Gods or even Demigods. Religions in general are irrational, illogical, not necessarily stupid, but bullshit. I mostly agree with Satanic philosophy, but I think the mysticism is bullshit and possibly nonetheless stupid and moronic. Religion has helped and stunted civilization throughout all of history, it will never change, but still someone will be a scapegoat. Hopefully the Jews will get a break, maybe now its the Muslims turn?(that was a joke people) Also, the atheists whom yo say are close minded, are most likely stupider than you or anyone reading this, or not actually an atheist. (example: Kirk Cameron) So yes, you probably are a noob and I could own your ass in Halo 3, Call of Duty and the likes, but I am not close-minded.

 

[NotMemorable]

Name99
You keep throwing around your obviously flawed logic and still expect to be taken seriously? Why are you even here? I think by now you've made clear how tough you are (amongst other things). I won't bother responding to more of your troll remarks.

 

[Kubanator]

I guess my point was,

Atheists could care less whether personal religion is being forced on them. It's organized religion that's the problem. Such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

do you really speak for an entire group?
Are you our Pope?

Or maybe I'm just annoyed because I'm tired of being quoted in this thread endlessly.

I'm speaking from a rational perspective. As atheism is a rational based system, an atheist would not care about any words which held no power. They would care about something that could change their lives, such as stem cell research, or gay marriage.

 

[hobo_welf]

The other half of my theory goes as follows;

Theists base their beliefs on one thing, just as atheists do. This is (obviously) what sets them apart so strongly. Theists, at the core of their being, are based on faith. Atheists are based, at the core of their being, on logic. This is what sets them apart like oil and water. Atheists can never understand faith, and while some theists can understand logic, their faith is stronger. Atheism-theism is a battle of faith and logic, and you really can't say that one is stronger than the other. Well you can, and invariably someone will try, but until you can actually use your logic to disarm others of their faith, you can't honestly believe that one is stronger than the other. And if you honestly believe you can rid someone of their faith with logic, you're as misguided as any Catholic.

Honestly though, why the hell would you even try? Faith works for so many people, it causes strife, but it brings millions and billions of people together under one banner that honestly might not even look at each other otherwise, and that's something that I can get behind. Atheists might be joined under a unifying cause, but honestly, what have atheists ever done as a group? How many soup kitchens feed people who are under their luck because of atheists? How many houses are built in New Orleans every day because of people who don't believe in a god? How many people stop drinking or shooting up or wasting their lives because of the lack of faith?

At the other end of the spectrum, how many scientific breakthroughs have been garnered by people foaming at the mouth about a god? I'm sure that one day the cure for cancer will be realized or the solution for world hunger will be realized, and it might be an atheist who stands at the helm of that discovery, but I can promise you this much. She/He will not attribute that breakthrough to her/his lack of faith. It will be a discovery made by human effort, not the belief or disbelief in a god.

No, faith does save people, even if it's illogical. Ultimately that's what it comes down to. An atheist could never understand why someone would give up all their worldly possessions and wealth to sit down and take care of people less fortunate than them, someone willing to sacrifice their own well-being just to aid others.

Similarly, someone filled with faith could never understand why someone would claim that everything their life is based on is fake, simply because there is no rationale to it. If there's no proof, there is no god. But that's the thing about faith that atheists don't understand! God doesn't matter without faith! If someone believed in god simply because there was proof, he would be meaningless. Everyone would go about paying tribute to someone that they know exists and it would be fake. Someone else here already mentioned that if they knew god existed, they'd believe in him just to go to heaven.

But theists don't believe to go to heaven. Theists believe because faith gives them strength, and the strength to help others. Which is why I respect them a hell of a lot more than I respect atheists. It's easy to believe that there is no god because there is no proof. It's hella hard to believe in god when there isn't any.

Especially on the internet with all the atheists cramming their logic down your throats.

As for what Max already said, yes there are fanatics for every religion, or lack thereof. And it's not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bathwater. However it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch (that's the end of the metaphors for today), and that's why I left the Catholic church. It only takes a few judgmental assholes to make you not care about god, and similarly, it only takes a few anons filled with their newfound logic to make the rest of you look like fools.

At least in my eyes, but like you said Max, everyone is arrogant of their own beliefs.

Edit: My bad, the last paragraph or so probably could've been a pm.

 

[Godheads_Lament]

...an atheist would not care about any words which held no power.

Not that I want to speak for an entire group, but that's a nice thought, unfortunately even moderist religion impacts our lives in a big way - mostly in reference to the entire secularist vs. freedom of expression governance style, notably in public office.

 

[benoitowns]

Not so smart as you'd burn in hell for eternity, or are you going to take chances on that one? It's a little easy to just call someone an idiot because he defies your sense of logic.
And stop trolling, civil discussion will get you miles further than spreading hate.

What I have to say specifically to YOU, NotMemorable, is that YOU are the close minded one. If Hell is just a place where God is not present, then we have nothing to fear. Also, If YOU are wrong, you would have wasted your one and only life devoting yourself to a nonexistant deity. I will live my life accordingly and morally, but I will primarily look out for myself, and live in the now. If life is an arbitrary test, then I will show this immature God who is intolerant of disbelievers that I don't need to please others to be happy with myself.(as in God) If you are too narrow minded to see, the majority of Christians and even Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, are tolerant of people. (minus the whole gay thing, the muslim thing, the abortion thing, the black people thing, and the polytheism thing) They show that they are more tolerant and accepting than this spiteful, childish God. Maybe He is nothing like as the Bible tells, but that won't change how I behave throughout my life. Even if science proved there was a God, I would follow my morals and know that should understand, or else God is a pretentious ass.

 

[Godheads_Lament]

Snip

I would point out that perhaps it is too simplistic to imply that because religion has a few benefits that you can name, the rest of the bad shit (no matter how trivial) should be permissable? Apologies if this wasn't what you were trying to get across but that's how I read it

 

[Kubanator]

You can clearly see that the christian god, if he exists, is not one of infinite intelligence by using your own and looking at exactly what happens, looking at what god could and should do, and keeps on happening anyway. It is nothing like saying I could escape from a black hole. It's like saying that a black hole wouldn't be all that bad once I got used to it, if I survived somehow.

Let's say you look at a man outside, naked. You think that doesn't make sense because it's snowing. He has a fever and would die if he wasn't naked. Although he would seem stupid to you, it's simply because he has more knowledge than you. He makes a better judge of intelligence than you do.

As for getting used to it, I don't think you understand the concept of infinity. Infinity means no matter how high you raise your pain tolerances level, it will still hurt infinitely more. Given that a real number is finite, your pain tolerance level will never reach infinity, making it always hurt an infinite amount.

This whole "if he exists" thing is not going to work out at all as he doesn't exist. I'm interpreting it as if suddenly humanity found conclusive proof that god exists. I would know that he is an idiot. If he really did exist, though, he would not seem like such an idiot... I don't think you'll understand what I mean, but just get off this hypothetical because it is irrelevant and doesn't matter.

Irrational, you stated an absolute where there is no evidence.

 

[hobo_welf]

Snip

I would point out that perhaps it is too simplistic to imply that because religion has a few benefits that you can name, the rest of the bad shit (no matter how trivial) should be permissable? Apologies if this wasn't what you were trying to get across but that's how I read it

I'm saying that religion does things for the world that atheists refuse to accept (for the most part), and the opposite is just about true. I'm saying that people are going to believe what they want to believe, and I guess after all my gigantic walls of text today, what I'm saying is that none of this really matters, because it's all going to go on like it has.

The only difference is now I hate that douchebag with the penguin avatar.