Attack on Titan: Chainshot?!

[Paragon Fury]

So I finally got around to watching a few episodes of Attack on Titan. It was okay, but the thing that gets me is the fact the humans could be utterly devastating the Titans but for some reason aren't. Because they haven't figured out an incredibly simple invention that would give them a massive advantage vs. Titans.

What invention? Its something fans of ACIII and ACIV will know, as well as any naval or warfare history buff:

Spoiler

MOTHERTRUCKING CHAINSHOT.

Designed to decimate masts, ships, people, basically anything that needed to be/could be cut down or brutalized.

Yes, Titans can only be killed by severing their necks - and they regenerate wounds somewhat quickly.

But they still get hurt. They're still VERY able to be cut down. Chainshot is literally the perfect thing to use vs Titans.

- Much easier to hit with compared to a normal cannonball
- If it hits the neck/head it will likely be an instant kill, rather than the regeneration from a normal cannon shot
- Very easily dismember the legs/arms/torsos of the Titans, making them easy targets for the soldiers
- Will cause more damage on impact than a normal cannonball

I know there is supposed to be this plot about how the humans are be limited in the technology they develop to keep some people in power or something, but they developed a seriously complicated and advanced rappelling/grappling hook system........yet no one thought to tie two cannonballs together and fire them outta the cannon? That isn't even an "invention" so much as a "Hey, look at this thing I made while I was bored".

But I suppose that would make for a very boring and shot series of soldiers beating up on what essentially be helpless, crippled monsters.

 

[The Wykydtron]

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

One being that simply throwing new recruits into battle with only their training and wits to rely on (and training can be forgotten instantly through fear) is fuckin' stupid and sending a senior officer per squad calling the shots for them and keeping their heads level would highly increase survival rates. Maybe Episode 5 wouldn't have happened.

They miss better ways of Titan killing just because it's more dramatic and let's be honest, fucking cool to see them swinging around on grappling hooks.

I still can't see how they're going to make a decent ending out of AOT though, the writer already admitted he had a Stephen King "everybody dies" ending written but decided he couldn't do that to so many fans and called it back. The basement thing is likely to be an asspull of legendary proportions that gives them some superweapon or more likely critical knowledge that gives them a huge advantage OR just his dad's porn collection and they just flat out die for nothing.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out anyway.

 

[Zhukov]

They already use explosive shells, which can blow off limbs and will kill with a head/neck shot.

Chainshot would be essentially obsolete, although possibly cheaper.

 

[Xeorm]

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

One being that simply throwing new recruits into battle with only their training and wits to rely on (and training can be forgotten instantly through fear) is fuckin' stupid and sending a senior officer per squad calling the shots for them and keeping their heads level would highly increase survival rates. Maybe Episode 5 wouldn't have happened.

They miss better ways of Titan killing just because it's more dramatic and let's be honest, fucking cool to see them swinging around on grappling hooks.

I still can't see how they're going to make a decent ending out of AOT though, the writer already admitted he had a Stephen King "everybody dies" ending written but decided he couldn't do that to so many fans and called it back. The basement thing is likely to be an asspull of legendary proportions that gives them some superweapon or more likely critical knowledge that gives them a huge advantage OR just his dad's porn collection and they just flat out die for nothing.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out anyway.

Any chance you could give some specifics on what those suggestion might be, or perhaps a link to the thread? It sounds fairly interesting to read.

To be fair though, I don't think there really were any senior "officers" around. Outside of the one group that went outside the wall, all the rest were nothing more than people that watched the wall, at best. If anything the young recruits might have stood the best chance, due entirely to having the bulk of their training recently along with being at a very good stage in their life for physical ability.

All the good soldiers were stuck in the center area as well I believe.

 

[Dalisclock]

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

One of the things that got me was how it take three years(?) to train roughly a platoon worth of soldiers(and considering how fast they lose people that only makes it worse). Seriously? Hell, it only takes about two years to train a US Navy Seal and those guys are among the military Elite.

 

[michael87cn]

It was my understanding that the Titans are basically like the Zerg. You kill some, but then twice as many come and retaliate and overwhelm you.

I mean, they are firing cannons at them and that didn't really slow them down.

 

[Raine_sage]

I feel like a lot of the terribleness of the Attack on Titan military is chalked up to the fact that for 100 years titans just aren't a thing they actually had to deal with, and they somewhat naively assumed the wall was a permanent solution. They only started actively engaging because the titans forced the issue and it was either fight back or die out. But they don't have the tech or the know how to fight effectively.

That said yeah they are kind of idiots.

 

[Jingle Fett]

Chainshot wouldn't be especially effective against titans for many reasons. Chainshot still needs to be fired via canons and the canons aren't very accurate, which is why the shells are explosive (instead of just balls of metal like traditional canon balls). With chainshot, you have to be even more accurate than with the regular shells since in order to be effective, you have to directly hit the target (whereas you can miss with explosive shells and still do damage). This is very important because titans attack in large numbers and ammo is limited.
Furthermore, unless they actually do hit the neck, it won't help much. Titans don't stop when they get injured, they can keep going even after losing their legs and before regenerating. All in all, chainshot is situational at best and only just as effective as the regular shells, and significantly less effective in most cases.

Then there's also the fact that one of the big themes of the series is the dangers of complacency, how everyone thought they were safe behind the walls and didn't have to worry about the titans. Basically, humanity was caught with its pants down.

You say you're only a couple of episodes in? Watch the whole season and then get back to us. There are other reasons why canon-based weaponry (canon ball, chainshot, or otherwise) is only effective in certain situations. Lets just say some titans move much faster than others...

 

[LobsterFeng]

We should take the Trost District, and push it somewhere else!

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

I thought one of the points of Attack on Titan was showing how the military is essentially filled with inept leaders because they're all a bunch of corrupt assholes and therefore having the military operating very poorly makes sense and the only sane people are the scouting legion but even then they're having a hard time convincing the rest of the military to, you know, actually win instead of just defending yourselves...and stuff.

 

[Smiley Face]

As to the chainshot thing specifically, there are some possible reasons - 1, the chain shot might not have enough force/area of effect to make a killshot, and 2, they use high explosive shells, which can be a killshot.

But yeah, their military tactics suck, by and large. I'm fairly sure that's because the military basically devolved into institutionalized corruption and bureaucracy - a lot of feudal societies went through that to some degree at one time or another, but warfare with neighbours kept them honed, kept things in check, whereas in Attack on Titan, they've had 100 years of peace. As far as I'm aware, that's never happened to any country, ever, particularly not the feudal European countries on which AoT is roughly based.

 

[Aeshi]

Chainshot wouldn't be especially effective against titans for many reasons. Chainshot still needs to be fired via canons and the canons aren't very accurate, which is why the shells are explosive (instead of just balls of metal like traditional canon balls). With chainshot, you have to be even more accurate than with the regular shells since in order to be effective, you have to directly hit the target (whereas you can miss with explosive shells and still do damage). This is very important because titans attack in large numbers and ammo is limited.
Furthermore, unless they actually do hit the neck, it won't help much. Titans don't stop when they get injured, they can keep going even after losing their legs and before regenerating. All in all, chainshot is situational at best and only just as effective as the regular shells, and significantly less effective in most cases.

Even if Chain-Shots weren't as effective as Explosive Shells, Chain-Shots would probably be at least partially re-usable once you've fired them, which in turn would mean you could afford to use more of them.

 

[The Wykydtron]

We should take the Trost District, and push it somewhere else!

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

I thought one of the points of Attack on Titan was showing how the military is essentially filled with inept leaders because they're all a bunch of corrupt assholes and therefore having the military operating very poorly makes sense and the only sane people are the scouting legion but even then they're having a hard time convincing the rest of the military to, you know, actually win instead of just defending yourselves...and stuff.

Considering the current arc of the manga, the ineptitude of the military makes a whole lot more sense I will give you that.

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

One being that simply throwing new recruits into battle with only their training and wits to rely on (and training can be forgotten instantly through fear) is fuckin' stupid and sending a senior officer per squad calling the shots for them and keeping their heads level would highly increase survival rates. Maybe Episode 5 wouldn't have happened.

They miss better ways of Titan killing just because it's more dramatic and let's be honest, fucking cool to see them swinging around on grappling hooks.

I still can't see how they're going to make a decent ending out of AOT though, the writer already admitted he had a Stephen King "everybody dies" ending written but decided he couldn't do that to so many fans and called it back. The basement thing is likely to be an asspull of legendary proportions that gives them some superweapon or more likely critical knowledge that gives them a huge advantage OR just his dad's porn collection and they just flat out die for nothing.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out anyway.

Any chance you could give some specifics on what those suggestion might be, or perhaps a link to the thread? It sounds fairly interesting to read.

To be fair though, I don't think there really were any senior "officers" around. Outside of the one group that went outside the wall, all the rest were nothing more than people that watched the wall, at best. If anything the young recruits might have stood the best chance, due entirely to having the bulk of their training recently along with being at a very good stage in their life for physical ability.

All the good soldiers were stuck in the center area as well I believe.

http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/487898-What-could-be-done-for-the-SnK-military-to-make-it-better

It's really quite an interesting read if you're into AOT. Remember this is the manga version so there may be spoilers but I don't think there are in this particular one. Yeah the senior officers were somewhere else at the time now that you mention it. More evidence that the leadership is in a bloody shambles.

There are sooooo many things wrong with how the AOT military operates I can't even begin to list them, practicality of weapons aren't even that bad as it is. I've seen a really solid thread on a manga website actually and there were some really good suggestions on how to be less awful.

One of the things that got me was how it take three years(?) to train roughly a platoon worth of soldiers(and considering how fast they lose people that only makes it worse). Seriously? Hell, it only takes about two years to train a US Navy Seal and those guys are among the military Elite.

It was three years yeah. It's probably safe to say that it takes more time to prepare people to fight the scariest motherfuckers in the world that will brutally one touch kill you, the psychological training should be extensive.

I don't know much about military practice but we as a species understand how humans work so it's easier to train for it. Titans are a scientific blank where the game could change at a moments notice (that flying fish Titan tho...)

Speaking of the flying fish, have you played the Unity browser game? The fish Titans will fucking wipe the server singlehandedly, Survey Corp characters included. A few regular players develop a phobia of the things even.

At the end of the day, three years is the most dramatic because four years would feel like way too long but honestly two years sounds a little bit too short. We all know that AOT strives to make the most dramatic experience possible.

 

[Bluestorm83]

That's kind of the point of Attack on Titan. Since everyone's safe and cozy inside their precious, precious, almost obviously sinisterly crippling walls, only like 1% of the populace ever even thinks "Wait a second, what if, like, I actually am present on the ground in front of a Titan?" Of that group, only 1% is actually manly enough to think "They're actively trying to EAT us, we should fucking find ways to kill them BEFORE that eating." It's not a spoiler per se, as you see in the first and second episode that there's wandering preachers around, but people actually worship those walls, 'cause they're just SO big and strong that, I mean, why not? And if there's one thing that people love to do, it's ignore their pressing problems once they get a moment of safety. Even if those problems are smiley mongoloid giant cannibals with neither wangs nor cooches.

Depending on whether you're watching the translation on Adult Swim (Which makes things sound less Japaneesey and changes the literal translation in a couple places but retains the spirit of the dialogue while making it understandable to English speakers who don't know the weird language conventions of the Japanese language,) or you're watching Subtitled episodes on Netflix or something, you may or may not be seeing the translated lyrics of the opening theme. If the former, I'd recommend looking for the theme with subtitles on the internet. It helps you get a picture of the general mentality of people there inside the walls.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I do believe they were using black powder shells, by way of Erin's 'catch' having a explosion in episode 10 as well as mentions of high-explosives being used in the clearing of all you can eat Trost district.

Chain shot could be a contender if the Titans weren't that massive, going though one over 1 square metre of flesh and bone in order to kill a larger titan is a big ask compared to a mast.

And of course crap like chain shot is inaccurate as hell compared the to the current shells they were using.

 

[TheSYLOH]

Actually Chainshot is one of the less effective things they could do with the tech they got.
So let me tell you my idea.

The Chain Guided Bomb!
This sound high tech, but it ain't.

So let me break it down.
Fact: the 3D Maneuvering Device is cheap and plentiful enough to give to raw recruits and second line garrison units.
Also something like 50% or more don't return in one piece.
We also know that the harpoons are accurate enough to hit specific targets and can penetrate titan skin.

So...
Strap a big bomb to a 3D Maneuvering Device, shoot the harpoon at the titan weak spot, set the thing to reel in and blow once it hits the neck.

Hell if you armor the winch, you just replace the bomb and re use it.

If that raw recruit misses, he's several dozen feet away comes back and gets yelled at for wasting ammo, as opposed to squashed/eaten/squashed and eaten.

And this isn't mutually exclusive with the existing blades method either, the blade method is more efficient but its reserved for the people who can actually pull it off.

But if you debated every dumb little thing in anime you'd be there all day, so I'm letting it slide for the cool factor.

 

[Aerosteam]

Firing chainshots is nowhere near as cool as spinning and spidermanning crotch-first with double grapples while holding a sword on each hand and trying to slice a titan's neck from the back.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Although, you know what would be better than chainshot?

Spoiler