Attention whore-ing to a whole new level

[Sefa Lagaaia]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/mum-used-cancer-drugs-to-poison-daughter-20131009-2v7g5.html
It's shit like this that really makes me not like humans
To think some people would to go to such lengths just to get sympathy from strangers and friends... It really annoys me...

 

[kurokotetsu]

Munchausen by proxy, probably, at least form the idea that she was maing her daughter ill for the attention. A horrible thing, to be sure. And problematic. Are these people insane? Can they be treated? Legally and psychologicaly it is problematic, as any condition in which the sufferer express it by "attacking" poeple. Really, it is hard. I can't say I'm disapointed at this exact news. We need to understand the condition more to see what can be done before it presents itself, if it is possible, and the warning signs. Terrible news though.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Hey it's like that one scene in Sixth Sense. Except it's got a happier-ish ending.

 

[madwarper]

I don't know about Australia, but from what I gather from Dateline's Lockup series, child abuse is the ultimate taboo crime in a women's prison in the US. So, here's hoping she gets put in general population and karma works itself out.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

That's just.. so fucking pathetic.

The mother will look back at this in 5 or so years time, and she will be overwhelmed with embarrassment, I'm sure. I wonder if she'll ever get custody of her child once she's out of prison, if she gets sentenced?

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

that assumes she gets out of prison alive in the first place
they will never give her custody back

Well I should certainly hope she does get out alive. If any harm happens to her inside, that prison needs some serious investigation.

How can you be so sure? I'm quite ignorant on the subject, but is there no way for her to undergo mental tests or et cetera in the future that could possibly lead to her being able to see her child again?

 

[Queen Michael]

If this is true, then this mother is an enormous rhymes-with-witch.

 

[Stu35]

Read the article. Saw she was wearing "thongs" in the dock, and it took me a couple of seconds to realise that it was in Australia (where "thong" = "flip-flop").

Now, on topic...

Some people are an embarrassment to the human race, and in a world run by me there'd be absolutely zero tolerance of them. Now, admittedly, I apply this to anybody who watches X-Factor and anybody who posts baby photos / sonograms of their unborn child on facebook - so this isn't necessarily saying much.

Now, on topic and slightly more serious...

What distresses me (I say 'distress' - 'slightly irk' would be a better way of putting it) about this, is that child neglect/child abuse is so ridiculously common across the world that it just takes the piss. I know quite a few primary school teachers (in Britain), and anecdotally speaking they've all got students who recieve literally no love at home, who can't perform any kind of basic life skills...

In short, parents are not held accountable enough (certainly in Britain, probably in Australia too), and that, in it's own way, opens the door to people like this woman, and their fucked up brains.

If this is true, then this mother is an enormous rhymes-with-witch.

*****?

You can say it. It's not a swear word.

Also, Fuck, Shit, ****... Those are swear words. See how you didn't explode from seeing those words? That's because they're just words, they can't hurt you.

As for female dogs... Well as I understand it they actually look after their young (admittedly they don't have to do it for as long as a human mother - our development into independent creatures takes an insanely long time compared to other animals), so no, the woman from the story is not one.

 

[Bertylicious]

This lady sounds bonkers, to be fair, so I don't think you can judge her by the same yardstick as people who are not ill, so really this is a tragic story of an ill person who wasn't properly identified and treated whose illness went on to harm their kids.

Unless we are saying ill people should be denied access to their children? But how would we know whether people were ill or not?

Perhaps heightened government surveilance is the answer? That way I could get a job in public health and spend all my time judging people according to my own whims rather than only judging a limited section of people when they commit an infraction.

 

[OneCatch]

that assumes she gets out of prison alive in the first place
they will never give her custody back

Well I should certainly hope she does get out alive. If any harm happens to her inside, that prison needs some serious investigation.
How can you be so sure? I'm quite ignorant on the subject, but is there no way for her to undergo mental tests or et cetera in the future that could possibly lead to her being able to see her child again?

It's possible that she could be given custody (in that there probably isn't a law specifically prohibiting it) but is so unlikely that it's not worth considering. Welfare of the child is prime when it comes to custody, and giving custody to someone who (arguably) tried to kill them is the antithesis of that.
Think of some other common barriers to custody: not knowing the child, drug or alcohol abuse, poverty, non-positive role model, full time employment. All are far less significant than intentional poisoning.

And it seems that Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy isn't legally defined in the UK and Australia either - doctors are allowed to testify on harm being inflicted on the child, but are unable to provide the syndrome as a motive because it isn't recognised in the DSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchausen_syndrome_by_proxy#Legal_status_in_Australia_and_the_UK

So it couldn't even be considered as a mitigating factor, as can be the case with most other mental illnesses.
I guess she might get visitation, assuming the child and whomever assumes guardianship permits it.

 

[Just_A_COMS_Major]

That woman is ill and needs attention. She will serve her time and, hopefully, never be given custody back. This isn't the first case of this that the world has seen, but it is still very unfortunate and sad that the child had to endure this. Having said that, the mother has a serious mental issue that needs to be addressed. If people can find ways to identify her sort of problem sooner in others, further atrocities can be prevented.

 

[Wunderhund]

She's lucky she wasn't charged with attempted murder. Grievous bodily harm seems too lenient, as it seems to be related to malicious wounding (can be intentional or unintentional), at least according to Wikipedia. I don't know how poisoning with chemo drugs can be considered anything less than attempted murder.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

that assumes she gets out of prison alive in the first place
they will never give her custody back

Well I should certainly hope she does get out alive. If any harm happens to her inside, that prison needs some serious investigation.

How can you be so sure? I'm quite ignorant on the subject, but is there no way for her to undergo mental tests or et cetera in the future that could possibly lead to her being able to see her child again?

Prisons, at least in the US, may be full of thieves, murderers, whatever. But there's an unwritten "Don't fuck with little kids" taboo. It's not uncommon at all for criminals who committed a child related crime to end up beaten, shived, or straight up murdered in jail.

You can investigate the prison all you like, you're not going to find the perp. And what would you do if you did? Put them in jail harder? These are not nice people to begin with and many of them are serving life sentences without possibility of parole. They really have nothing to lose so they figure if they can rid the world of a child abusing offender, why not?

 

[Mr_Spanky]

"She even requested donations for medical expenses". Although this situation can only be described as sick and wrong this one statement explains to me *maybe* (I stress maybe) why.

Money (or the lack thereof) makes people do crazy things. I just hope the child makes a full recovery and can spend the rest of her childhood away from such toxic influences. That and the mother should do time. If she gets community service or something after such blatant abuse of power then Aussie law isn't worth the paper.

 

[WindKnight]

That's just.. so fucking pathetic.

The mother will look back at this in 5 or so years time, and she will be overwhelmed with embarrassment, I'm sure. I wonder if she'll ever get custody of her child once she's out of prison, if she gets sentenced?

We're talking about someone with a mental illness, or at least a mental disconnect, or they would not have done this in the first place... chances are the only thing they will regret is being caught.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Prisons, at least in the US, may be full of thieves, murderers, whatever. But there's an unwritten "Don't fuck with little kids" taboo. It's not uncommon at all for criminals who committed a child related crime to end up beaten, shived, or straight up murdered in jail.

You can investigate the prison all you like, you're not going to find the perp. And what would you do if you did? Put them in jail harder? These are not nice people to begin with and many of them are serving life sentences without possibility of parole. They really have nothing to lose so they figure if they can rid the world of a child abusing offender, why not?

Giving these people their own blocks would be a good start. Don't put them in with the others. Just keep them in smaller prison communities comprised of people who committed similar offenses. It may sound silly to say this, but prison should be a safe place. Inmates are under the care and protection of the wardens and guards, so if they're harmed, something isn't being done right and action must be taken. Prisons are fucked up places as it is, without it being even worse.

I personally, don't think this woman should be sent to prison, but I do consider it inevitable. So..

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

that is disgusting to say the least and hope the mother is jail for a very long time.
I can't come up with much more to say beyond

Spoiler

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

We're talking about someone with a mental illness, or at least a mental disconnect, or they would not have done this in the first place... chances are the only thing they will regret is being caught.

Unless you have some source to back that up, I'd advise against making such assumptions. This could simply be a strive for attention, or a money making scheme. It might be a shock to you, but perfectly sane people can do horrible things sometimes for a variety of different reasons, so don't be so hasty on the mental illness labels.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

Prisons, at least in the US, may be full of thieves, murderers, whatever. But there's an unwritten "Don't fuck with little kids" taboo. It's not uncommon at all for criminals who committed a child related crime to end up beaten, shived, or straight up murdered in jail.

You can investigate the prison all you like, you're not going to find the perp. And what would you do if you did? Put them in jail harder? These are not nice people to begin with and many of them are serving life sentences without possibility of parole. They really have nothing to lose so they figure if they can rid the world of a child abusing offender, why not?

Giving these people their own blocks would be a good start. Don't put them in with the others. Just keep them in smaller prison communities comprised of people who committed similar offenses. It may sound silly to say this, but prison should be a safe place. Inmates are under the care and protection of the wardens and guards, so if they're harmed, something isn't being done right and action must be taken. Prisons are fucked up places as it is, without it being even worse.

I personally, don't think this woman should be sent to prison, but I do consider it inevitable. So..

I appreciate your compassionate view on the matter.

Being a parent though, I don't know if I share it. I'd like to always take the high road and hope we could help the offenders to rehabilitate, but there's also that outraged dad part of me that says they gave up their right to be safe and comfy when they hurt that child. Hurting another adult is bad enough, but a child is still growing, learning, and becoming. And damaging that should be given heavier weight when considering punishment.

Mental health issue or not, they did do the crime and were convicted and sentenced and likely appealed and eventually incarcerated. The offender could have sought help, the offender didn't have to give in to compulsions, and they likely had years to work it out before they took that first step toward hurting that child. And I'd say they had more opportunity to change the outcome that the victim ever did.

Not saying they deserve to get shived with a sharpened toothbrush handle or anything. But I don't know that increased spending to insure their safety is going to ever be on anyone's priority list given the severity of their crimes. And again, not saying it's right. Just that it happens and stopping it would be a difficult proposition. Prison populations can be huge. And no matter how many big burly guards you have on staff, no prison can have one to one guard/prisoner ratio.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

snip

Well, I myself aim to never allow emotion to cloud my judgement and reason. I can understand why a parent would feel outraged at such a case, but it's important to retain composure. It's why I dislike the notions of "justice" or revenge. It makes it too personal and emotional, and that only leads to mistakes and consequences.

At any rate, the tone of this discussion is turning this woman and what she did irrelevant, and moving onto something much larger in scale: we do not have control of our prisons. If inmates can affect the fates and livelihoods of fellow inmates, then the guards and wardens do not truly run the place. Not completely. And that is the heart of the issue. How it could be resolved? I don't know, but I do know it's a problem, and people should not be getting shivved or bashed in prisons. Obviously, changing the idea of who gets sent to prison or not is one step in this. People who commit serial traffic offences, or are caught in possession of drugs. Such people probably do not belong in prison, yet they are among the large populations. Take them out, give them more fitting sentences, and you now have room to work with for the people who are in prison. The people who commit crimes that have victims. You free up that space, and you can have blocks strictly for sex-related criminals. You can have blocks strictly for child-related offenders. In America, and I know this is a huge thing in your country, you can even have blocks designated for specific gangs so that there aren't rival gang members intermingling.

These are just ideas, of course, and I'm not sure how effective they would be. But I am passionate in the belief that something must be done. Despite what someone's emotions are regarding the crimes committed, these people are not animals to be caged up and abused. They are not monsters, no matter how often that word is thrown around. They are human beings. Horrible? Some can be, yes. But they still must be cared for, and adequately at that.