Automatic Gaming

-Drifter-

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I find myself becoming more and more aware of how automatic games are becoming. It feels like most of them are doing half the work for me, and it seems that it's only going to get worse. I remember reading a preview on Destructoid of one game where you take cover by simply pointing at the object you want to be behind, at which point your character just goes there himself while vaulting over any obstacles in the way. Excuse me, but why is this necessary? I want to play games, not watch them.

With that in mind, I was hoping you guys could recommend some recent games that actually value the players input, rather than just playing themselves. Think less Arkham Asylum and more Mirror's Edge (except less terrible.)
 

krazykidd

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Dark souls springs to mind . Everything is left to the player , even failing . I'm guessing by now though everyone who wanted to play that game has played it , but every single thing is up to the player . Whether you succeed or not is completly up to you .
 

Scrustle

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How about games like Devil May Cry and God of War? You need to keep on your toes and always be thinking about what you're doing, and be ready to react appropriately at any moment. Pulling off effective combos also takes a fair bit of dexterity and timing.

On a similar note, fighting games. I don't play fighting games myself but I understand they are also very much down to player skill in timing, executing moves yourself, and reacting properly.

The Witcher games are also very demanding of the player. Combat is also something you really need to think about in those games, as well as preparation for it. Pretty much everything in those games demands in depth participation and contemplation from the player.

Racing sims also might qualify, especially some of the more hardcore PC titles. It's not just squirt and go like in other racing games with sims. You need to learn how to use all the controls properly and very precisely, and of course learn how to drive tracks properly as well, which can be much harder than it first appears in some cases.
 

TrevHead

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I would say that a lack of buttons on a pad is a problem, especially as devs are trying to squeeze in so many different game mechanics that there's the tempation to just map everything to an action button.

It would be nice if the PS4 and Xbox720 would have pads with an extra couple of face buttons. It's one reason why im so interested in the WiiU's pad. If the games come then maybe everyone will understand how much the lack of buttons is holding us back and Sony and MS will follow suit.

There's nothing stopping MS and Sony from doing the same as the WiiU which has both the touchpad and gamepad. Sega did the same thing years ago with the 6 button megadrive pad for fighter games, now console games have become more like PCs we are needing another change.
 

Scrustle

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TrevHead said:
I would say that a lack of buttons on a pad is a problem, especially as devs are trying to squeeze in so many different game mechanics that there's the tempation to just map everything to an action button.

It would be nice if the PS4 and Xbox720 would have pads with an extra couple of face buttons. It's one reason why im so interested in the WiiU's pad. If the games come then maybe everyone will understand how much the lack of buttons is holding us back and Sony and MS will follow suit.

There's nothing stopping MS and Sony from doing the same as the WiiU which has both the touchpad and gamepad. Sega did the same thing years ago with the 6 button megadrive pad for fighter games, now console games have become more like PCs we are needing another change.
You make an interesting point, but I don't think that's really how things are.

Controllers have been steadily increasing the number of buttons as gaming has evolved, and that's allowed games to be more complex. The reason we see so many games simply using one button as an all purpose "action button" is to make the games more accessible. For example Assassin's Creed is far easier to get in to than Mirror's Edge since scaling a line of rooftops essentially equates to holding down the A button. In Mirror's Edge you have to press a button to initiate a jump, a slide or a duck, tucking in your legs, and even cushioning your fall. It doesn't do anything for you and if you fuck up it's your fault, not the game sending you in a random direction because it interpreted the direction you pointed the thumbstick in wrongly. You need to learn how to input the controls better.

The OP is talking more about games that take care of doing things for you. Games that simplify actions and therefore making their interactivity more shallow. More buttons would help to make games have more depth and sophistication, as they have done all the way through the history of gaming, but we don't see games that are easy to control now because we are being held back by controllers. In fact, the opposite is true in some cases. Can you imagine trying to play Street Fighter IV on the NES? It just wouldn't be possible. Whatever there would be instead would be nowhere near as a complex game as SF4 actually is. Fighting games were able to grow and gain more depth over time because consoles were getting controllers with more and more buttons, along with processing power too, of course, but that's beside the point.

But more buttons won't stop games like Assassin's Creed existing, because their control methods are created with a different purpose and audience in mind. In Assassin's Creed they designed it so players don't have to worry about controls, so they can just focus on the experience of the adventure, or what specifically happens to be going on at the time on screen. They want to draw in as many people as possible with that premise, without people having to worry about simply moving about their character. In more complex games, like fighting games, the controls themselves are part of the experience. Learning and performing the delicate tasks needed are part of the gameplay and a draw to the target audience. Unfortunately, this turns many people away. A lot of people find that aspect daunting and just want to play a game that's easy to control but still gives them a great experience. It's this desire to have a broader appeal that's "holding games back", not controllers.

If a game designer wants to appeal to a wider audience they will make controls simpler, or more "automatic" as the OP states. It's not necessarily to do with the number of buttons on a controller. It's probably more accurate to say that what's "holding us back" is the huge development costs of games. Because of these costs games have to make huge amounts back just to make a profit, and to do that they need to sell loads, and of course to do that they need to appeal to more people.

But if we really think about it, Assassin's Creed isn't really that simple either. You have four different types of actions you can do, each mapped to a face button, and four more if you hold down RT to perform "high profile" moves. There's also the dual control stick layout, which many non-gamers find incomprehensible too. Using the relatively simple controls of Assassin's Creed could well be baffling to someone who is used to only the NES controller, to refer back to a previous example.

But I think you have a point when you say the WiiU could shake things up a lot. If they use the touch screen as a place to simply display lots of digital buttons, then there could be great potential there. There might even be a proper RTS game on a console.
 

aguspal

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-Drifter- said:
...I remember reading a preview on Destructoid of one game where you take cover by simply pointing at the object you want to be behind, at which point your character just goes there himself while vaulting over any obstacles in the way.
Well, if its of some use, when I read this part, I automatically thougt of Alpha Protocol, for some odd reason...

Pretty sure there are other games that do it, thougt. Its just than that one came to my mind.
 

The Wykydtron

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Oh come on! Mirror's Edge was awesome! You could run and jump and slide and shit! 'S fucking great!

I'll go with Dragon's Dogma, any badassery you pull off is all you. You jump on that Ogre's face and stab it in the eyes! Just don't expect climbing all over the giant monster to be the best course of action every time.

Seriously they can instakill you if they catch you out even once. It's freaking cool.

Also fighting games make you learn controls pretty in-depthly. Though every fighting game is practically handicapping me by giving a super useful move the Shoryuken motion. Fuck that motion it's impossible to pull off unless the move prior was a forward + button move.

Phoenix Wright's Hold It! or Vergil's Stinger for example. I can go into Press the Witness from a Hold It! easy but the only other time that motion happens is when I have to use the Fuck This Button that is Ace Attorney.

And any of Vergil's three shoryuken moves don't combo well straight from a Stinger. Unless you want to be needlessly fancy I suppose.


Persona 4 Arena doesn't have any Shoryuken bullshit. It's like I can finally reach my full potential...
 

WoW Killer

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First thing that sprung to mind, and this isn't going to be what you were thinking of at all: QWOP. Comparatively Mirror's Edge is holding your hand the whole time. You just push a direction and go that way; you don't even have control over individual limbs let alone muscle groups. Clearly games are getting dumbed down. Right?

Context sensitivity is actually fundamental to all except novelty games, just in different degrees. As much as I love QWOP for its craziness and as a concept piece, it's not a shining example of a good control system; quite the opposite in fact. The reason you can walk in a straight line without any effort IRL is because you've been doing it for so long that you don't even need to think about it. You think where you want to go and you move there. If you were a master assassin trained from birth, then combat would be a bit like this; you wouldn't be carefully examining the angle of each and every blow directed your way and calculate the correct avoidance strategy, you'd see a swing coming and instinctively move out the way. If me, as the player, is going to be placed in the life of somebody that's supposed to be an expert in whatever, then I want to be thinking like they would: "there's an attack, better dodge", "his guard is down, now's my chance" etc., not "I'll put my left foot here and swivel this hip slightly while ducking". Don't get me wrong, often more complex controls are a good thing, but sometimes more context sensitivity has its place too.