Backlash after Gorilla Shot in Cincinnati Zoo (Updated)
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I don't know enough about the situation and the psychology of gorillas to really make an argument for whether or not the gorilla should have been killed. Some people have say the gorilla wouldn't have killed the boy, some people say he would have, I can only go with what experts say.
That said, more people would be questioning why there's only a 3 foot wall into a gorilla enclosure. Yeah, there is a moat, but pretty anyone can get into it and get themselves in trouble with minimal effort.
That said, more people would be questioning why there's only a 3 foot wall into a gorilla enclosure. Yeah, there is a moat, but pretty anyone can get into it and get themselves in trouble with minimal effort.
ok just one question why didn't a trainer first go in and call the gorilla over like they did the last time? I mean they really didn't try much first. as to the child honestly don't really care, if his parents were that dumb (and by all account they seem to be) they shouldn't have reproduced in the first place. then again I have very little sympathy for my fellow man after being shot at for a number of years so take that as you will.
According to the zoo that's the first thing they did. The two female gorillas in the enclosure went when called but the male didn't. They also couldn't tranquilize it due to it only making it more likely the kid would be killed. Shooting it was the only option left.ecoho said:
I find people calling the parents negligent incredibly unfair to the parents and more a product of hindsight. I've seen a few witness accounts online and none of them blamed the parents. What I read said that the parents only took their eyes off for seconds to attend another child and to take pictures. That's all it took for the kid to cross the fence and get in the bushes where they could no longer be seen. It's easy to look back and claim they should have had eyes on the kids but anyone who has ever done anything with kids that age could tell you that you cannot keep eyes on them 100% of the time. You stop to look at something, you tie your shoes, you say hello to someone you know, another kid needs your attention for a moment. All kinds of innocent things that draw your attention for a short time. To say you need eyes on your kids 100% of the time is pure ignorance. Kids will be kids and will run off the second you aren't looking. The only accounts I have seen blaming the parents are from people who weren't there and thus have no idea what really happened. If evidence and/or more witness accounts pop up saying the parents really did cause the problem then I'll change my view. Until then, like anyone who has dealt with kids should do I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes shit happens and it's nobody's fault
The zoo is definitely in the wrong. Why was it possible for a child to just walk in to an enclosure for large, dangerous animals? When you're running a facility like that, negligent parents really ought to be something you anticipate.
I think the mother is a negligent asshole and I don't like how she responded at all. But if anything needs to be "idiot proofed" it's a zoo, because when people do stupid shit, as they are wont to do, it's the imprisoned animals that have to pay for it. Unlike freeways, which exist for people to drive on, the whole point of zoos is supposedly to protect and conserve wildlife, so the onus is on them to make sure this sort of thing can't happen.Terminalchaos said:
While the gorilla sadly had to be shot, I dearly hope the zoo sues the negligence off of the kids parents for causing this accident. How do you let your kid fall into the lake with the huge gorilla.
Something I read the other day that seems rather relevant to this thread: Whilst everyone's been losing their shit over a single Gorilla being killed, over 1,000 men, women and children drowned trying to cross the Mediteranean last week -
As this post is waaay more depressing than I originally intended, I'll end with a good news story! - The PGA has shown that it actually has a pretty good sense of humour, by moving the 2017 World Golf Championship from the originally planned course - Donald Trump's Doral course in Miami, to Club de Golf Chapultapec in Mexico City.
The hyenas baying for the parents' blood over this clearly have a major problem with perspective! Gorilla dead, bit of a shame, shit happens. In the 3 days since this thread started, over 60,000 children will have died worldwide, (Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the deaths on this thread, I'm sure Parasondox didn't kill ALL of them!) there will have been large numbers of fatal accidents, deaths to curable diseases, people shooting each other in long-running conflicts in Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Nigeria, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc, victims of crime worldwide, and all kinds of horrible crap that mostly don't ever even make the news any more. Ukraine was sooo last year's story, Iraq was supposed to be done and dusted ages ago, and we're all bored with hearing about Syria now, so yeah let's all get all bent out of shape about a single Gorilla shooting instead!
As this post is waaay more depressing than I originally intended, I'll end with a good news story! - The PGA has shown that it actually has a pretty good sense of humour, by moving the 2017 World Golf Championship from the originally planned course - Donald Trump's Doral course in Miami, to Club de Golf Chapultapec in Mexico City.
That's, like, your opinion man. What's to stop "bit of a shame, shit happens" applying to everything else you just listed? People dropping a comment or two on the internet isn't going to affect the conflict in the Middle East one way or another. It's fine when people are losing their shit over some game, but when it comes to animal rights issues, suddenly it's an outrage that people aren't discussing the Somali Civil War.CeeBod said:
I am trying okay, DAD!! Being a villain is so much hard work. Half the henchmen are useless, some want to go on strike. For some reason they have a henchmen union, Putin is not returning my calls and Britain keeps selling me half ass arms. I need that damn cluster bomb upgrade but the budget is low. Damn Tories. No honour among villains these days. Killing is hard. I should've gone into baking like my mother told me too. Kill them with diabetes AND OBESITY!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.CeeBod said:
Yes it is and no it's not. There isn't a single animal species that has ever been "saved" by keeping a couple spares locked in zoo.Recusant said:
Starving children in Africa! Starving children in Africa! Did I mention the starving children in Africa! Seriously, there are few things more irritating when discussing anything than having someone pointlessly tell everyone they should be discussing something else. Further more, that same logic could be applied to any other topic.CeeBod said:Something I read the other day that seems rather relevant to this thread: Whilst everyone's been losing their shit over a single Gorilla being killed, over 1,000 men, women and children drowned trying to cross the Mediteranean last week -The hyenas baying for the parents' blood over this clearly have a major problem with perspective! Gorilla dead, bit of a shame, shit happens. In the 3 days since this thread started, over 60,000 children will have died worldwide, (Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the deaths on this thread, I'm sure Parasondox didn't kill ALL of them!) there will have been large numbers of fatal accidents, deaths to curable diseases, people shooting each other in long-running conflicts in Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Nigeria, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc, victims of crime worldwide, and all kinds of horrible crap that mostly don't ever even make the news any more. Ukraine was sooo last year's story, Iraq was supposed to be done and dusted ages ago, and we're all bored with hearing about Syria now, so yeah let's all get all bent out of shape about a single Gorilla shooting instead!
As this post is waaay more depressing than I originally intended, I'll end with a good news story! - The PGA has shown that it actually has a pretty good sense of humour, by moving the 2017 World Golf Championship from the originally planned course - Donald Trump's Doral course in Miami, to Club de Golf Chapultapec in Mexico City.
A new game is announced: "Why are we talking about games when there are starving children in Africa."
A thread about a recent movie: "Shouldn't we be talking about the starving children?"
Another mass shooting happens: "This is tragic and all, but it pales in comparison to the starving children in Africa!"
A woman was just raped: "But 10 women were just raped overseas! Also, starving children in Africa!"
There is so much misery in this world and only so many hours in the day to talk about, so of course people will discuss issues that are closer to home and/or closer to their sphere of interest. There are plenty of people who will devote their attention to animal rights but ignore all the starving children, just as there are people who will devote their attention to all the starving people but will ignore all those killed in wars, just as there are those who will devote their attention to those killed in wars but will ignore pollution and environmental issue, just as there are those who will devote their time to environmental issues but will ignore the horrific working conditions in certain countries, just as there are ... etc.
Just saying, pointing out that there are bigger issues doesn't make the smaller ones go away. Further more, there are plenty of people "losing their shit" over these other issues you described, they just aren't necessarily on this site.
Also, it would also be pretty funny if hypothetically your own posting history was filled with posts about videogames, movies, and other miscellaneous stuff that has nothing to do with those issues you just mentioned, just like the rest of us.
If it seems like I'm being overly hostile about this it's because the the appeal to relative privation is not just irritating, it regularly gets used as a red herring to derail legitimate political discussion. Everytime someone discusses minimum wage laws, or gay marriage, or working conditions, or animals rights, or any other issue at all, you can practically set your watch to the precise moment someone inevitably reminds everyone about all the other problems overseas, before promptly forgetting about them until the next time they need to derail a discussion.
I take the point, but all I was trying (and apparently failing!) to point out was that the social media outrage machine could maybe use a little fine-tuning with regard to it's sense of perspective, particularly when it comes to the death of animals! I'm still seeing people talking shite daily about how the parents should have been the ones shot, the petitions calling for justice for Harambe are reaching Donald Trump hate levels of signatures, and the parents in question have now received more death threats even than that dentist that killed Cecil the Lion - another time where everyone went "Oh noes, a fluffy animal is deaded!" and completely lost their shit!FirstNameLastName said:
Yes the violent death of an endangered Gorilla is a sad event, but damn people aren't getting this worked up about the parents that abandoned their son in the woods as a punishment and then couldn't find him again (fortunately that story's just turned out OK - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36441612 ).
Why is it that so many people seem to reserve all of their empathy for animals rather than other humans? It reminds me of the episode of the Sopranos where Tony Soprano, a mostly cold-blooded murdering bastard, completely lost his shit when he found out that Ralph Cifaretto had killed Pie-O-My the horse. Article about the same thing after the Cecil the Lion outrage has some interesting points of view: http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/now/question/215977-cecil-animal-human
I actually agree with you on both of those points, but stand by my assertion that the existence of other disconnected problems shouldn't really determine how sensible people's actions are. The people sending death threats are assholes for sending death threats, but that's because it's a disproportionate response to an accident, not because people are dying overseas.CeeBod said:
Likewise for animals in general, although that is a more complicated issue. I think a lot of it comes down to the idea that one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic, especially when the animal in question has a name and is of the correct species.
It might seem like I'm about to go against what I just said about not bringing in outside issues, but that only really applies when the issues in question have no bearing on one another, or when the people getting mad at some minor issue are simply not talking about the other issue rather than actually condoning it.
I guess I can somewhat agree with the point that people should be putting their ire towards more important issues, but since this is an animal rights issue I'd say it's more helpful to suggest they put their attention towards more pressing animal rights issues rather than disconnected human ones. As much as I love animals I can't really muster much anger or sadness about this, especially due to the complicated moral ambiguity of the situation.
As annoying as it is for a lot of people when the topic of vegetarianism/veganism is brought into these debates, it often rings rather insincere that most of the people getting horribly upset over this shooting are also fine with the meat industry because "bacon is tasty." This gorilla lived a nicer life and had a far more humane (and justified) death than the majority of the animals we eat.
I'm not saying you have to be a vegetarian or vegan to be upset over this, after all, I'm not, but if you aren't at least a little morally conflicted about indirectly causing the pain and misery of the animals you eat then maybe dial back the outrage just a bit, and perhaps don't start talking about how the child/parents should have been killed instead.
Of course not- that's why Hawaiian crows are extinct. And the currasow, too. And let's not forget the California Condor, an animal so extinct there's more than four hundred of them!Johnny Novgorod said:
Captive breeding programs aside, conservation money has to come from somewhere. If it comes from individuals, it's mostly going to be people who see them up close and in person, and not have to trek halfway around the world to do it- that's where zoos come in. And if the money is going to come from governments, they're going to need public approval, and that's mostly going to come from people who, again, can see these animals for themselves. Wildlife reserves are important, but without zoos, the money's not going to come. I realize they can be a double-edged sword, but pretending they do no good is pure and simple denial.
Based on the social media response to this, you'd think that systemic racism would be solved by now if white people had even half as much outrage every time a black person was brutalized or killed by cops.
Zoos are an outdated and pretty inhumane way of preserving animal life. Why can't we have nature reserves again exactly?
Zoos are an outdated and pretty inhumane way of preserving animal life. Why can't we have nature reserves again exactly?
http://newsthump.com/2016/05/31/nra-seeks-to-prevent-further-zoo-tragedies-with-call-to-arm-gorillas/
The NRA are right. We should have given the gorilla a rifle. We should have armed the gorillas and the bear.
Relax I know it's a joke article... I think. We can't arm Gorillas because... wait, why can't we are them? On right, they could rebel and try to take over and wipe out the humans. No thank you. We have Siri and other A.I. for that.
The NRA are right. We should have given the gorilla a rifle. We should have armed the gorillas and the bear.
Relax I know it's a joke article... I think. We can't arm Gorillas because... wait, why can't we are them? On right, they could rebel and try to take over and wipe out the humans. No thank you. We have Siri and other A.I. for that.
I've got a 5 year old and a 3 year old. They're like crazed ninjas on caffeine sometimes and no matter how well I try to teach them or instruct them, they occasionally get curious and do things I don't want them to and that I've specifically taught them not to do. I'm not saying this mother shouldn't be held somewhat accountable, as I think taking multiple kids to the zoo by yourself is a recipe for stress, headache, and wandering children, but most of the folks accusing her of being a shitty parent probably have no idea what the situation was or what it's like to manage kids.cthulhuspawn82 said:
I've taken both kiddos to the zoo, with another adult accompanying us, and it's been fine. My point was mostly that sometimes kids go or do something we don't expect. Leashes are perfectly fine if that's what is required for a parent to maintain control, but even when a child is capable of usually behaving, there will be moments where they do not and potential mischief can be perpetrated. Most situations that means something simple, like getting into a snack or whatnot that they're not supposed to be into at the moment, and then there's this scenario in the news.....I don't know the woman or her kids, so aside from thinking it a poor choice to try and wrangle them all at the zoo, I'd withhold attacks on her character or such judgements.Terminalchaos said: