Bad guy motivations

[Wackymon]

|SNIP|

Dr. Breen, The Illusive Man, and the anti-spirals are all people who
-Claim to be working for the survival of humanity/the universe
-Have gone to extremes such as genocide to get what they want
-Despite claiming to be working for something they live in incredibly detached areas from the thing they are trying to protect. Breen in his office high above in the citadel, the Illusive man in his glass room, and the anti-spirlas in their mini-alternate dimension.

Well, I have to say, I agree with this on all levels.
I actually thought of him more as a genuinely good hearted man who just refused to see the faults in helping the combine, and just wanted to help humanity. His reasoning seems pretty solid, most of the time.

 

[GTwander]

The best bad guys are the ones you can identify with. Being evil for the sake of evil only works when there is a serious mental illness involved, or the character is a straight sociopath. The only thing I liked from the movie 8mm was when the killer responded to the question of "why did you do it?" with "because I like to!".

Otherwise, identifying with the villain is a better option, because it can make the viewer question whether the character is really all that bad to begin with. Lex Luthor is probably one of my favorites, because he is not really evil, so much as that he has a strict belief that mankind needs to guide it's own destiny - and he is just about the only person he'd trust with the job. Like a leader that does unmentionable things for the greater good, or just to avoid an even greater travesty.

I also like to play with role reversals, personally. When the villain and hero come to terms and start to trade traits it's something of beauty. I've worked with one setting where the protagonist is an unassuming Mary Sue that eventually sees the villains point of view and even tops the heinous things that said villain could even consider. Which eventually makes that villain think about his stance and change his role into that of stopping the once 'hero' of the tale. Nobody would see that coming.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well, I have to say, I agree with this on all levels.
I actually thought of him more as a genuinely good hearted man who just refused to see the faults in helping the combine, and just wanted to help humanity. His reasoning seems pretty solid, most of the time.

What makes Breen, The Anti-Spirals, The Illusive Man, Saren, and other like them such great villains is that they normally have somewhat reasonable logic to back up their claims.

They aren't evil for the sake of being evil, and it is in their corruption that we see how we, the hero, could have wound up like them had we had to make that same choice.

Also Breen kinda broke down a bit at the end, his facade about actually believing in The Combine's ways failed a bit when he had Eli and Gordon in his clutches and only talked about how he could get himself more power.

 

[Eddy-16]

I believe that the best villains are the ones that believe what they are doing is right, noble and in their own twisted way heroic and that you are evil for trying to stop them but actually have some logic behind them. Evil for the sake of being evil is just boring and evil to take over the world doesn't really make sense to me, I mean what do you do if you manage to get the world?

 

[RedDeadFred]

The Kingslayer is a great villain. His cause is a noble one and he do what have do be done, to get to that goal.

I don't know if you've read the books at all but he becomes a main character in a Storm of Swords (my favorite book so far). During the book, when I actually got to see things from his perspective, I found that I don't really even consider him a villain anymore. Not a good guy for sure but definitely not evil. Maybe he'll become an asshole later on though. I dunno I haven't finished the book yet.

For me, Kai Leng was a great villain simply because I hated him so much. If I can dislike a guy so much that when I get to kill him I jump up and yell "fuck yes", he's got to be a pretty damn good villain.

 

[Pebkio]

Host: Hello and welcome back to the only show behind blue eyes: Enemy Esquire! Our special guest today is the one and only Sephiroth.

Sephiroth: Thanks, again, for having inviting me onto your show.

Host: No problem, it's been my honor. Now, before the break we talked a bit about how you've survived in the Lifestream, and even stolen information from the ancients...

Sephiroth: The Cetra.

Host: Hmm? Oh yes, the Cetra. But now I want to get into your motivation; the drive you have to stay alive... basically.

Sephiroth: Heh, yeah... technically.

Host: We all know how you want to get revenge on the modern human race for what they did to the Cetra... to your mother.

Sephiroth: Actually, I learned early on that my mother wasn't actually Cetra. In fact, the Cetra had defeated my mother, so what Humans did to the Cetra is actually pretty okay in my book.

Host: Oh... alright well, your OTHER plan to absorb the energies of the world to become like a god is well known. There was that famous incident in which you tried to crash a meteor into the planet. How is that goal going, by the way... anything new on the horizon?

Sephiroth: Well, actually, I don't really care about becoming a god anymore. I kinda just want to use this planet as a vessel to carry my mother and me to a new, more vibrant planet. That's why we had spread the Lifestream miasma.

Host: Oh yes, where you were again foiled by Cloud. The hero with the spiky hair is more emotional than you, yet he seems to keep besting you. So now that you can't keep people from being reborn anymore, how are you going to... um...

Sephiroth: Use the planet as a vessel to travel to a new planet.

Host: Right, that.

Sephiroth: Actually, since my mother and I are already living in the life-stream, people being infected by miasma and the world choking to dust actually didn't matter much. We could just jump to any passing rock and guide that to any other planet. In fact, I wasn't actually foiled... just... Cloud beating me meant that humans could still be fruitful and such.

Host: Uh huh... so, why did you fight with Cloud recently?

Sephiroth: I guess I just hate his face.

Host: ...and you're other motivations?

Sephiroth: Don't really matter, no. In fact, all that miasma nonsense was my mother messing around with those weird clone things. You know my mother, always trying to corrupt everything.

Host: And why does she do that, exactly?

Sephiroth: Y'know, I never really looked into that. I just love my mommy lots and lots.

Host: ...let's just end this interview while we're ahead, shall we? This has been another addition of Enemy Esquire. See you next week when our special guest will be The Reapers. And remember, The World Shall Be Mine!

 

[vid87]

Being a Final Fantasy fan-boy, here's my biased take on things:

-Delita from FF Tactics: He starts as your friend, but is introduced to the harsh reality of class discrimination by the people he thought were his family. He never actually fights you, but he works for the main villains to further his agenda of seizing power. He becomes so ruthless and cold, framing and murdering others to con the upper classes into thinking he's noble that you come to despise him, but also remember him in the beginning when he was your ally (especially as a party member). Really, he's more of a tragic figure than real villain - an innocent youth scarred by bigotry and twisted into something hateful that you actually sort of pity him.

-Sephiroth: Obviously for all the stabby stuff, but it's the aside things that make me wonder about him. Think about it - he thinks Jenova is his biological mother and that he's destined to become a god based on what he believes are his origins. What he ever found out Lucretia was his real mom? Would he still be such a monster? It's that little detail that also makes him kind of tragic and not 100% generic evil, at least to me.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Bowser from Super Mario: He just kidnap a Princess,without any reason except for the heck of it. He isn't asking ransom money,or a political change,or whatever. He just grabs a girl and put her to a cage just because.

Based on the fact that Mario still invites Bowser to DM his board game nights and, go go-carting and, bowling and whatnot it's lead me to conclude that Bowser isn't really a bad guy. He's either 'kidnapping' Peach for some form of publicity to make her seem sympathetic so her people don't realize she's useless and behead her...or more likely, it's her kink.

---

To answer your question I'm going to talk about New 52's Deathstroke instead of video games. Slade Wilson is a wealthy mercenary who takes on very high paying jobs and kills people and is generally very awesome. In issue 8 (spoiler alert) it goes into his childhood and how his Dad basically sold him to the mob so as to erase his $10,000 debt. Slade grew up, found his Dad and has been keeping him alive though, confined to a bed taking jobs at no less than $10,000 each as a massive 'fuck you Dad, I'm worth more than you can imagine' sort of thing. In the comics it's presented as a, "Slade, you're not as old as you used to be, why do you continue this line of work when you can retire in comfort" kind of question and, that bedroom surrounded with newspaper clippings and photos of bodies is the ultimate bad-ass answer of why that protagonist (outside of Teen Titans) does what he does. Because fuck you Dad.

As for a bad example: in issue 9 of Deathstroke new 52, his reasons for being a mercenary are changed to, "TO AVENGE MY DEAD FAMILY!!" because Rob Liefeld is a hack. Deathstroke isn't the badguy from 9 on...but Lobo is! Lobo is going to destroy humanity and the Earth because FUCK humanity and the Earth!

 

[waj9876]

I like the games where the villain/antagonist is completely justified in what they are doing, though the game pretends that they aren't, and the heroes/protagonists are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want, even if it's worse, and are still considered good. These are so rare, I can't remember any of them off the top of my head.

An actual motivation I can remember? Hm...I guess I'll name three and scale them from Good, Meh, and Bad.

Spoiler: Good

Ovan from .hack//G.U. He had very good reasons for doing what he did. Namely, bringing back someone who many or may not have been his sister, and getting rid of AIDA.

Spoiler: Meh

Dandelion from Steambot Chronicles. He has a right to be pissed. Really fucking pissed, an entire city of people he adored just stood around and watched as his little brother Chicory died. His response? Start a terrorist organization, bomb the city, and kill who knows how many innocents that weren't involved.

Spoiler: Bad

Every. Fucking. Villain. That is just a carbon copy of Sephiroth. The whole "Oh woe is me, I was artificially created. HUMANITY SUCKS! I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS MADE IN A LAB! No matter that I am loved and respected by millions of people. LIFE SUCKS!" thing.

 

[swani24]

To me the best villain is the one who is the complete opposite of the hero. I think the Joker is easily the best villain of all time because of the fact he is the polar opposite of the hero. Batman is physically strong and relies on the fear he inspired in criminals to defeat them. The Joker has no rules and attacks Batman as a symbol rather than as a man. Of course there is also the dynamic between Chaos(joker) and order(batman). Just a great villain! I tend to get tired of the whole "Well really he is just trying to do the right thing but in a crazy psychotic way". I Like evil villains.

 

[skywolfblue]

I have nothing wrong with Villains that are cartoony evil "just because".

Arthas (World of Warcraft & WC3), pretty generic "dominate the world" as it gets. The whole "letting the hero's live on so they'll make stronger servants to his cause in the end" is kinda an interesting bit.

Kerrigan (Starcraft), it's pretty much "lie and backstab everyone in the sector" until she gains complete power then it's just "whatever whim strikes me". She's not really complex, but still highly entertaining.


As for those with complex motivations:

Dr. Breen (as already mentioned)
Sophia Lamb
Illidan

 

[distortedreality]

I always thought that Saren from Mass Effect and Kreia from KoToR 2 were great bad guys, because they had believable and interesting back stories and motivations for what they were doing. Really stand head and shoulders above most bad guys I can think of.

Other than GlaDos. The need to test is needed.

 

[krazykidd]

Kefka . Final fantasy 6 . Want's to destroy ( suceeded ) and rule the world ( also suceeded ). Why ? Because he can . Like a boss .

 

[Gennadios]

This is a really difficult question for me, being limited to games. I'm kind of on my way out as a gamer. I've been playing games since I was 14, I'm now 28, and subject matter and writing quality has not only failed to improve, but it's actually gotten dumber and more simplistic.

Now, my favorite antagonists:

Arcanum: Kerghan. It's really hard to explain, he's a malevolent force that's really only revealed in the second half of the game, and until you meet him in the end all you really see is the utter devastation that his minions are causing. Once you finally get to him, you're just treated to an info dump video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkBrIrQikWY] of his point of view, and god damn that info dump converted me on the spot. Guy was an Omnicidal Maniac, his goal was the extermination of all life, and somehow I agreed with the guy. I joined him, eradication was a success, and all that was really left was the two of us. We fought to finish what we started, he lost, and my character was left mortally wounded to contemplate the his last moments on earth.

Somehow it left me complete, I didn't even feel the need to reload a save to see how the other choices would have panned out.

Honorable mention would be Kreia from KotORII.

Least favorite is like picking a specific drop of feces in a barrel of it. Like I said, don't like game writing much, and the medium sucks for characterization in general. You just move from stage to stage and have the occasional evil force pop out in a cinematic to kakkle at you. Not much room for getting to know them.

 

[Eddie the head]

Solidus from MGS2? I mean at the end of the game I was kind of like I agree. And The Boss form MGS3. Oh, and for over the top funny bad guys Dr.Nefarious.

 

[Zio_IV]

A number of good villains were already mentioned above, but one that sticks out in my head right now would be Lezard Valeth from Valkyrie Profile.

Villains of passion are rare in video games these days, as far as I'm seeing, anyhow, so it was nice to see Lezard doing his thing. He creates a Philosopher's Stone (basically a book containing all knowledge), sacrifices said stone in order to become the only survivor of what is essentially the VP version of the second coming, travels to an alternate timeline in order to subdue Odin, the king of the gods, absorb his soul, and then use that power to start ripping apart the very fabric of space-time.

And he did all this just to get a woman's attention. Seriously, all he really wants is to bone the main character. It's not often you see such a successful and dangerous (and just plain cool) villain with those kinds of primal motives. I thought it was refreshing, if nothing else.

 

[Setrus]

Saren in Mass Effect: Perhaps the most sophisticated and deep antagonist I've ever found in a game.

This. Saren does what he does for the best of reasons. He's a mean man, one who doesn't hesitate to kill millions if he reaches his objective, but he always does it for hte skae of saving more...and what's more people than those of the entire galaxy?

He's certain we can't beat the Reapers, so his line "Isn't submission preferable to extinction?" carries a lot of weight, he's TRYING to do good, even though he's (as the Virmire base proves) afraid he's just a tool for Sovereign to use.

 

[Pink Gregory]

In MGS2 the patriots wanted to moderate the information in the world so there isn't junk information so that peple coul make advancements faster.

I don't think that's really the modus operandi of Zero and what became the Patriots; really, the Patriots were just sort of what happened when control was left to artificial intelligences.