Bagless Vacuum Inventor Wants More Engineers, Less Game Devs

[kyogen]

in related news german companies have complained for years that those famous german engineers increasingly don't start working in Germany after graduating. they have been crying their beady little eyes out trying to figure out why, turns out it's simple, they don't want to pay them like proper engineers.

I dunno. The German arms industry is doing rather well. Speaking of which, if he's saying we're supposed to be worried about "faddish" industries, why not at least lament how much engineering talent is being devoted to destructive industries as well?

 

[hotdogoctopus]

Engineering FTW! "Let me give you some advice, if you're a young person who writes poetry, throw it all away right now"

 

[mgirl]

Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

Hah! I feel like I should be offended at that but it's just so damn true. Genuinely made me laugh right there.

 

[Narcogen]

Translation: A shortage of qualified engineers is creating an employee's market where labor is too expensive. Please create a glut of overeducated engineers so I can depress wages, and/or provide a government subsidy to lower my costs. After all, a vacuum cleaner is just as important as cultural products like music, film and games, right?

On second thought, from reading the thread it seems there is no such shortage, so I don't know what Dyson is on about.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

I wonder how high Downton Abbey scored on this test.

 

[DarthFennec]

"Britain is very proud about the number of foreign students we educate at our universities," he told the Sunday Times, "but actually all we are doing is educating our competitors."

Yeah cause, whether two people are competing totally depends on whether they live far away from each other, and not at all whether they work for different companies trying to provide similar services. I'm not at all sure how video games aren't "technology we can export", the fact that they're not "tangible" shouldn't matter when it comes to sales. Assuming he's worried about the UK's economy, which is what it seems like to me. If he's actually worried about advances in technology ... I don't think "MOAR ENGINERRNG MAJRZ!" is going to help much. To clarify, this is a list of things I think may advance technology, in the future: quantum computing research, artificial intelligence research, battery research, aerospace research, things like that. Notice that I didn't include things like segways, phone teeth, virtual and gestural computer interfaces, roombas, and bagless vacuum cleaners.

 

[Bobic]

plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

You missed off the culmination of those things into Britain's favourite passtime. . .

Oh, it's been done, I guess we don't need that tax break then. (it's an RTS of all things, believe it or not).

In all seriousness I quite respect Mr. Dyson. He made one hell of a hoover, the problem is that games are just significantly more interesting to most people than hoovers, so more people will want to work on them.

 

[WanderingFool]

On the subject of rubbish vacuum jokes; at uni one day the lecturer was discussing the cleverness of marketing adverts that can affect you, and asked the class, "For example, why are Dyson so successful?"

I pipe up, "Because they suck."

(I feel an odd mixture of shame and pride at that one)

Hell, I would be proud of that... also ima gonna steal it...

 

[maninahat]

On the subject of rubbish vacuum jokes; at uni one day the lecturer was discussing the cleverness of marketing adverts that can affect you, and asked the class, "For example, why are Dyson so successful?"

I pipe up, "Because they suck."

(I feel an odd mixture of shame and pride at that one)

Was the answer "because Dyson are the only vacuum cleaner company that bothers to advertise vacuums in the first place, and then when people actually buy their overly-complicated, over priced vacuums, they have to sink more money into the damn thing on repairs when it inevitably breaks down to justify spending so much money on it in the first place"?

 

[Zipa]

So I guess all the engineers that design things like processors, GPUs ect are a figment of peoples imagination right? Though to be fair a lot of those things are neither designed or built in the UK. (might be something to do with the government constantly stifling business with bullshit taxes )

And you missed mild bouts of casual violence of that list of British things Grey.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Here's a hint. If a student is willing to put themselves through the extended hours of a good game development course fully realize how many hours they will be putting in and how little pay they will get compared to what they could be doing, and they don't jump ship like rats from the Titanic, you aren't going to convince them otherwise. You might be able to convince the high number of slackers who think the profession will be fun to join you, but honestly they aren't going to stop being slackers so you don't want them.

 

[Danial]

I hear keeping your major electronics company inside mainland UK and not China is also a great way to help the UK.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

His proposed solution is to offer incentives to prospective students and ensure high salaries are waiting for them when they graduate. The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

Unless he is offering absolutely guaranteed jobs for graduates, there is little use telling students that if they become an engineer they could make more money.

People say stupid stuff like that over here in the US. "Oh, go into this field, you will be guaranteed a job." Wink wink. People, if anybody tells you that, tell them they are full of crap. Closest thing people here in the US get to having a guaranteed job is if they are coming out of college and have three to five years of experience in their field(college doesn't count as experience) and have five good outside referrals, and at least two or three good inside connections at the place they are looking to work. Of course, I said close to guaranteed, because nothing is ever guaranteed(well unless you are one of the luckiest people in the world).

If he is looking for engineers, why doesn't he import some from here in the US. There are plenty of engineer students coming out of colleges here with jobs few and far between.

Heck, I have a friend who graduated with an engineering degree around four years ago. What work has he had? Stocking at a Target for about six months, three months working at an oil refinery(then got laid off because supply talks for the plant went downhill), and now for almost a year, all he has had is a part time job as a cashier and back office worker at a grocery store.

So I would say to Dyson, "Unless you are truly offering something real to students, your wanting of more engineers is a pipe dream. Because, I'm willing the bet the same stupid hiring practices happen over there like they do here, so that is what scares students off from going for degrees in such things."

 

[LavaLampBamboo]

.....The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.....

What the.... Wha.... Why...

What is the point of that? Im sorry, but i just couldnt concentrate on anything else after seeing this. Is that common?

Holy shit is this stupid!

Frankly i see two things that could have happened here - either someone lobbied hard to get some cash back, or this is some kind of thinly veiled racism.

Id assume both...


As to why people flock to gaming industry, i have no idea. Probably they think game development = playing games a lot. And it is kinda true. Go ahead, and play one game for the next 2 years, then tell me how much fun it is

Im doing ICT at the moment, and this is because the government of our country said "WE NEED MORE PEOPLE RIGHT HERE!" and a couple of other "engineer" related studies. And i most probably wont have trouble finding job after this.

They even considered making "technical studies" free of charge iirc.

The test sounds mental, but in reality you score a bunch of points for having a British character in your game, or having most of the development happening in the UK, and it's not too difficult to pass. It sounds mental, I agree, but it's not as racist as you think =)

 

[LavaLampBamboo]

As others have said, the real problem is a chronic lack of engineering jobs. I have a friend who studied Civil Engineering. The oldest form of engineering after military engineering, according to Wikipedia. You think with a degree like that, he'd be well placed to start working on anything, constructing roads, buildings, dams, satellites... but sadly, he's still looking for work.

The government needs to stop playing silly buggers with the economy, stop slashing everything they can find, and actually start investing in schemes that provide work for the thousands of engineering graduates we've already got...

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

... oh, fuck you Cameron. You and your outdated notions of what constitutes being British.

Seriously, what the fuck is 'Britishness'? Because Britain is the one nation in Europe which could be defined by the different nationalities that have occupied it at some point or other in history. We've been invaded by Italians, Angles, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings, and whatever 'indigenous' culture we may have once had was wiped out thousands of years ago by invaders from other cultures. British culture is multicultural. Even our monarchy is multicultural: the Queen is part German, and her husband is Greek.

Stop trying to appeal to the BNP bigots, and learn to accept that there is no such thing as 'indigenous' British culture. We're essentially the bastard child of every major nation in Europe. They've all fathered us to one extent or another.

If you look into it, the "test for Britishness" is actually things like "game has a bit set in the UK" or "game features a Brit". It's not how many Union Flags appear in the game or something. If anything, this PROMOTES the idea of a multicultural Britain, since it encourages developers to move to the UK.

I'll agree the whole "Britishness" phrasing is pretty dumb and it might seem like the government is being all insular, but it's more of a representation of culture in art.

 

[Ruley]

This.

No really, this.

He makes such a good point i'm surprised so many fail to see this as an issue. Universities and colleges should stop video game development specific degrees. Some people hypothesize this will net us better games in the future by teaching the next generation of games designers the tools of the trade before they get their hands dirty in the job market. But current job market conditions really screw over specific degrees like this one. A lot of people seem to forget that current video game designers didn't do a degree like the ones being offered today. They studied Physics, Computer science and Engineering. Do people realize what word can appear often in gaming? a "Physics Engine" Does that imply some understanding of physics i wonder?

I really hope that a lot of these courses fail and people go back to doing core scientific subjects who then, after obtaining the general degree, specialize in videogaming. If they fail and do not get a job (which is the current state of the videogame job market), they can go on to do other jobs in those fields and not be shackled down by a degree that looks too specific on a CV to be applied elsewhere. Be honest, if you were looking over job applications for a bank or somewhere else where videogame design skills might be applied, who would you choose for an interview? "Physics" or "Videogame Design"? I'm not saying the coding skills learned in these courses are useless elsewhere, its just you'd fail to convey that as succinctly as other degree titles.

Keep in mind, Halo, Call of Duty and other blockbusters of our generation came from people who studied these core subjects. Thus a videogame design degree is not needed to make such a game!

TL;DR

Want to make video games? Go back to learning physics and not "Video game design". It will serve you better in the future when 343i reject you from the team for Halo 6

 

[SoopaSte123]

As a recently graduated engineering student, he's got a point. A lot of engineering students would prefer to work in games rather than in other fields. If you look at it at the macro level like he is, the country and community might be better off if they went into development of products other than games. On the micro level, however, the students are going into games because that's what they're passionate about, and that's a good thing. Finding a job in a field you're passionate about should be every student's dream.

I think we just need more students majoring in engineering period. Then we can have more game devs AND more non-gaming engineers.

 

[Neonit]

...most of the development happening in the UK...

That i can understand, with the "create new jobs" etc. that actually does make sense.

But i dunno, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.... And it still stinks of "cultural superiority complex" to me.

But meh, maybe its just me.

 

[Arakasi]

Well I for one think that we should have less Homer Simpsons and more money for public schools!

Anyhow, as demand for engineers increase, so will their paygrade, drawing more people back into that career path. These things have a way of equalising themselves.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Well, I'm both, but not in the UK. Wouldn't mind a financial stimulus for here in the US, either. It's quite hard to find a decent engineering position for about half the grads that come out of the school. But, it's not like I can say anything against the man. If one of the most profitable engineers of our day wants more engineers, well, we should get on that. I'm not saying we should abandon gaming and media wholesale, however. Can't we find some middle ground, like robbing some from the other liberal arts degrees?