Baldur's Gate Art Day

[The Madman]

Anyway, I guess I don't hold such a sterling impression of Baldur's Gate because I didn't grow up with it (or at least play it a decade ago), and by the time I finally tried getting into it it seemed so dated, slow, convoluted, and horrible to control that I couldn't even get out of the first room without being pissed off at the UI and the randomness of the AD&D combat rules. Same goes for Baldur's Gate 2. Spoiled or not by more modern games, they just haven't aged well at all.

How so? It's not like AD&D is terribly complex. 1D6 would mean one six sided dice roll while 2D4 would mean two rolls of a four sided dice. Rolling a 1 is bad, rolling a 20 is good. Bigger numbers mean more damage! Armour meanwhile is the reverse with lower number being better, so a 20 armour is bad, but 1 is good. Ideally with armour you'd want to get into the negatives, an armour of -10 for example is really good...

And really that's about it. You can safely ignore stuff like thaco and still play the game just fine, and most spells and abilities have straight forward effects; A fireball does so much damage in this much of a radius, sleep has a chance to put enemies to sleep, stoneskin makes enemies weapons not hurt while it last, etc. I've taught kids to play this series, it's not hard. While there's depth for those that want to tinker with the nuanced details of every character or encounter, so long as you've a grasp of the simple things it's still a blast to play.

Baldur's Gate 2's visuals have also aged quite well. There's a certain timeless quality to high resolution artwork, especially compared to the early 3D that were the norm when Baldur's Gate was released.

 

[shrekfan246]

Anyway, I guess I don't hold such a sterling impression of Baldur's Gate because I didn't grow up with it (or at least play it a decade ago), and by the time I finally tried getting into it it seemed so dated, slow, convoluted, and horrible to control that I couldn't even get out of the first room without being pissed off at the UI and the randomness of the AD&D combat rules. Same goes for Baldur's Gate 2. Spoiled or not by more modern games, they just haven't aged well at all.

How so? It's not like AD&D is terribly complex. 1D6 would mean one six sided dice roll while 2D4 would mean two rolls of a four sided dice. Rolling a 1 is bad, rolling a 20 is good. Bigger numbers mean more damage! Armour meanwhile is the reverse with lower number being better, so a 20 armour is bad, but 1 is good. Ideally with armour you'd want to get into the negatives, an armour of -10 for example is really good...

And really that's about it. You can safely ignore stuff like thaco and still play the game just fine, and most spells and abilities have straight forward effects; A fireball does so much damage in this much of a radius, sleep has a chance to put enemies to sleep, stoneskin makes enemies weapons not hurt while it last, etc. I've taught kids to play this series, it's not hard. While there's depth for those that want to tinker with the nuanced details of every character or encounter, so long as you've a grasp of the simple things it's still a blast to play.

Baldur's Gate 2's visuals have also aged quite well. There's a certain timeless quality to high resolution artwork, especially compared to the early 3D that were the norm when Baldur's Gate was released.

I get the rules. I never said they were complicated.

My problem is more with the implementation and the subsequent translation to video game format.

It's a subjective thing, but I don't like placing 75% of my potential combat effectiveness up to complete chance in a video game. AI routines aren't the same as a dice roll, even if it's the most accurate representation in the world. There's a certain level of RNG that I'm able to tolerate in my video games, and the D&D games tend to break that threshold.

It's not even so much the D&D rules in general I've got a problem with. I can play Knights of the Old Republic just fine, and if the combat weren't so gorram slow I'd love Neverwinter Nights and its sequel. But I can't get into the Infinity Engine games. The way they control combined with the slightly different, older AD&D rules and some of the worst UIs I've ever seen in video gaming just puts me off of them after half an hour. They feel stiff and unresponsive, the combat equally so, and really, having to rest after every fight at the beginning of the game just wasn't all that engaging to me. I'll readily admit I may have just sucked, but it's not like there was anything else I could do. Characters don't start with practically any abilities, positioning hardly seemed to matter at all, and even using weapons they were trained for still resulted in massive amounts of missing.

Though I suppose I should've clarified that by "convoluted", I was mostly referring to the abysmal UI. Seriously, even Diablo II has a better UI than the Baldur's Gate games, and Diablo II's UI is pretty horrible as well.

Maybe I could appreciate the games more if I had played them when I was younger, but trying to get into them now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[The Madman]

I get the rules. I never said they were complicated.

My problem is more with the implementation and the subsequent translation to video game format.

It's a subjective thing, but I don't like placing 75% of my potential combat effectiveness up to complete chance in a video game. AI routines aren't the same as a dice roll, even if it's the most accurate representation in the world. There's a certain level of RNG that I'm able to tolerate in my video games, and the D&D games tend to break that threshold.

It's not even so much the D&D rules in general I've got a problem with. I can play Knights of the Old Republic just fine, and if the combat weren't so gorram slow I'd love Neverwinter Nights and its sequel. But I can't get into the Infinity Engine games. The way they control combined with the slightly different, older AD&D rules and some of the worst UIs I've ever seen in video gaming just puts me off of them after half an hour. They feel stiff and unresponsive, the combat equally so, and really, having to rest after every fight at the beginning of the game just wasn't all that engaging to me. I'll readily admit I may have just sucked, but it's not like there was anything else I could do. Characters don't start with practically any abilities, positioning hardly seemed to matter at all, and even using weapons they were trained for still resulted in massive amounts of missing.

Though I suppose I should've clarified that by "convoluted", I was mostly referring to the abysmal UI. Seriously, even Diablo II has a better UI than the Baldur's Gate games, and Diablo II's UI is pretty horrible as well.

Maybe I could appreciate the games more if I had played them when I was younger, but trying to get into them now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I like Baldur's Gate's UI. Everything I need to play the game is front and center, every ability and spell, every weapon or item, all within easy reach. The only thing I could find difficult for newcomers would be the reliance on memorizing symbols, but even then if there's a symbol which you're not sure of holding down the Tab key will instantly bring up the icons name. Tab also highlights interactive objects in the environment such as doors or chests so there's no need for Adventure game style pixel hunting, it's a neat feature.

Then again my most played game in which I've put hundreds of hours since its release has been Crusader Kings 2, and compared to that something like BG's UI is easy. Guess I'm just used to strategy games. In another topic I was also defending Dwarf Fortress UI as well so maybe I'm just some sort of UI masochist.

As for gameplay positioning is actually essential and considering you start at level 5-6ish with two spellcasting companions, one a druid another a mage, options are plentiful. The starting part of BG2, Irenicus Dungeon, doesn't really highlight it well since it's essentially just a series of linear corridor against pretty standard enemies, but once the famously vast Forgotten Realms bestiary opens up to you having the proper spells prepared or good positioning is essential. There's nothing more frustrating than having a vampire break through your front line to level drain the cleric after all, such a pain in the ass. You really also shouldn't rely on companion AI either, there's a reason there's an icon right on the main screen for turning it off: The AI can handle simple enemies that require little more than hitting with pointy objects but against any more remotely advanced encounter you're expected to micromanage the group yourself. Hitting the Space Bar will pause the game and you can manage every battle at your own pace.

But then again maybe it's all just a matter of personal preferences. I'll also freely admit the first Baldur's Gate can definitely be a bit hit or miss, low level 2nd edition D&D isn't exactly enthralling in terms of combat and while many consider it's open world a bonus, it can also be more than a little frustrating for the unprepared.

 

[infohippie]

Whatever you were going to say about Legend of Grimrock appears to have been cut off.

 

[Klagermeister]

Can't speak much about Baldur's Gatr, but Dark Alliance was easily one of my favorite Gamecube games ever.
It just had a real sense of progression with your character, and a control scheme you'd be able to understand with your brain stem... the enemies felt real and were an actual threat.

Can't speak much for the story... kinda tacky and text heavy. Oh well.
Wait... an RPG whose saving grace is simplicity and not story? BLASPHEMY!

 

[-Dragmire-]

Baldur's Gate Art Day

It's a grand old game.

Read Full Article

What's the style of lighting used on the castle in the background called? It's just a couple layers of semitransparent geometric shapes but it looks very nice.

 

[ThisAccountIsClosed]

Sharon should have cast stoneskin and mirror image before closing to melee range. Tsk. XD

In all seriousness, I love this update. Not only is it based on one of my favorite RPGs, but it's also done in that classic D&D panorama style. Nice touch.

 

[Cory Rydell]

Aw, no Scary Penny? Would have thought she'd work well there.

In my first draft I had her as the necromantic queen on a dais in the back but I had to cut it to make everything fit. Yam sorry

 

[Cory Rydell]

What's the style of lighting used on the castle in the background called? It's just a couple layers of semitransparent geometric shapes but it looks very nice.

It was just an hour+ speed paint/render deal. I wanted to give an impression of a castle city without going into too much detail. I've been looking at too many awesome landscape artists so I thought I would give it a try.

 

[-Dragmire-]

What's the style of lighting used on the castle in the background called? It's just a couple layers of semitransparent geometric shapes but it looks very nice.

It was just an hour+ speed paint/render deal. I wanted to give an impression of a castle city without going into too much detail. I've been looking at too many awesome landscape artists so I thought I would give it a try.

Well it turned out well, good job!