Banner Saga Dev Says Apple "Frustrated" With Cheap Mobile Gamers

[Jandau]

1. Most iOS Gamers (meaning people for whom iOS is the primary/only gaming platform) aren't really Gamers. And I don't mean that as an elitist thing, they just aren't. Gaming isn't a hobby for them, it's an extra distraction while they poop or wait for a bus. As a result, they aren't really willing to drop money for that aspect of iOS.

2. As others have pointed out, Apple has only themselves to blame for fostering a consumer culture where $5 is a huge amount. Why buy a game for $5 when you can buy a game for 99 cents? And no, saying that the $5 (or $25) is likely a bigger, better game doesn't count - see the previous paragraph, these people aren't gamers. They aren't looking for deep, rich gaming experiences. They are looking for occasional timewasters.

3. iOS is a shitty platform for gaming. The touchscreen interface only works for a specific range of games, everything else needs contrived and lackluster control schemes. Sure, there are peripherals that allow for controller functionality, but that diminishes the practicality argument, which is one of the biggest selling points of iOS gaming.

4. All this simply means that there's not much of audience for major titles on the iOS. You are looking for people who care enough about gaming that they are willing to pay for a more robust experience, want those experiences on a mobile device (for whatever reason), but at the same time don't want to get a dedicated mobile gaming device. I'm not saying those people don't exist, but they aren't a huge market...

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

There is no market for deep, high-end mobile games because mobile gaming is, by definition, gaming on the go. You're away from home (and your vastly superior gaming devices) with a little bit of time to kill, so you turn to your phone or tablet for some quick, simple fun. You're just filling in the gaps between whatever activities caused you to leave the immediate area of your console or desktop in the first place. When those activities are completed, you'll go back to your house and (if you so choose) game with a non-tiny screen and a non-shitty interface. Because you're not a complete moron.

As someone who is rarely ever stranded away from home for more than 10-15 minutes without actively participating in some activity, I've made almost no investments in mobile games for my phone. The few mobile games I do have are exceedingly cheap and simple because that's all they need be in order to successfully waste 10-15 minutes at a time. The idea of paying premium prices for legitimate games on my mobile devices is laughable. Honestly, I can't even imagine the target market for such products. Kids are easily entertained by simpler games. Adults with "time to kill" away from home are either a) students, who usually prefer to study/socialize, or b) travelers, who usually prefer to rest/read/sight-see.

Apple can pine for bigger dollar signs all they want, but this is one market they won't be able to conjure from thin air.

 

[Rastrelly]

Ahem. I can drink my coffee. But I cannot drink 25 purple gems. I'd better leave those four bucks for another cup of coffee, y'know, something real. Also: I live in Ukraine, and this point is actually about 5 or 10 times more valid for our country XD

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

What most devs don't seem to realize: they are not alone out there an in fact competing with a lot of other entertainment options for a limited amount of money (and time).

Basically it comes down to this: Either one or two of the all the devs out there get a big cake and the rest gets NOTHING or a lot more devs get a smaller piece of the cake.

What you prefer is rather up to you.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

1. I can only speak for myself as a gamer, but I am sure there are others like me who feel that mobile gaming as a platform isn't up to a standard I hold dear. There just aren't many (if any) games that draw my interest, nor is a tablet/phone a viable portable gaming system compared to any iteration of a DS, PSP or Vita.

2. Most mobile gamers aren't core gamers, so they would be more along the lines of people who play games like Bejeweled, Peggle, Angry Birds, etc. Something easily consumed and not in need of much (if any) investments in the game. Higher than a few dollars here and there is more than they're willing to spend on something they'll play for snapshot moments in time. I'm sure there are dedicated mobile gamers, but I doubt they're many beyond kids playing Minecraft (or to a lesser extent Terraria).

3. Touchscreens as the sole interface (without peripheral attachments) just don't cut it for larger scale games. It doesn't hold up, neither does the tilt sensor as a replacement for analog sticks or even a d-pad.

4. No marketing for the larger games means no sales. I've not once seen any form of advertisement for a larger scale game for any tablet, iOS or otherwise. Let me qualify the "large scale" term by saying anything that has more substance than the current trend of games. See: Angry Birds series, Candy Crush Saga, etc. If Apple wants games to really matter, then they need to step up their game so to speak and market their products as a handheld console that can stand up on its own. It can't, because the 3DS and even the Vita would blow it out of the water due to the capabilities of those systems, but it would be wiser of Apple to do something if they really want to tap into a larger gaming market.

In short Apple doesn't seem to realize the people playing games on their handheld products aren't anything more than casual gamers, not people who actually look at the game itself and decide the price is worth the product. Instead they have cultured an impulse buying class of casual gamers who want cheap games. The only way they can overcome this is to attempt to court the more "core" gaming audience but without any real support from developers, there's little chance of that happening. Face it Apple, gaming is one corner of the market you'll never have.
Reminds me of the days when I used to go to electronics stores or computer stores and wander over to the PC section and see at least a couple rows or a whole section devoted to PC and then a bin with Mac games most of which consisted of Myst and Marathon 2: Durandel.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

This is why microtransactions are a thing. Devs weren't doing it out of cynicism... well maybe they were, but thtas what microtransactios are all about. A little bit of money, all the time.

But the point about games pricing especially when compared to say, lunch, is laughably true. As much as 'everybody' is a gmaer now, ther is still a clear divide between those that play mobile game son the way to work, and those that frequent forusm and sites like the Escapist.
Games aren't as mainstream as movies in regards to casual reach, but as proven by the state of Transformers continual success, even still are movies trully mainstream.

 

[IndieForever]

Have a read of this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/1txwjl/it_may_be_taboo_but_whatever_how_much_money_have/

Unless you're lucky enough for one of your titles to go viral most of these games will barely break a few hundred sales if they are not free. A lot of small devs go into this and actually make a loss, naff all or, at best, single figure earnings per hour.

If you've got a squillion dollars to throw at advertising, like King, it's easy and you'll get your investment back as 5 year olds burn through their parents' weekly wage by repeatedly mashing the 'BUY MOAR JEWELZ!!' button.

It's a neat way, especially for younger people, to get into coding, learn a bit about what business entails but if you're in it for the money you need serious backing and the main article is spot on - no bugger will pay $25 for a mobile game up front, but a small percentage of those people may spend hundreds (or thousands!).

It's becoming too much of a gamble unless you're already established.

We gave mobile game development the serious consideration we thought it deserved. Ten seconds later we fucked off to the pub to discuss what UE4 would mean to our time schedule.

 

[snave]

$25 is a very good price to pay for The Banner Saga. A very good price.

As much as I loved it to bits, I'd rather have paid twice that and got a third act.

 

[geizr]

What I'm hearing is a game developer crying that he can't charge more for games because market expectations (which have been shaped by the business tactics of other developers) won't allow higher game prices. Then, he just tries to rope Apple into his reasoning without any real evidence; Apple is mentioned only in passing and not given any real connection to the problem, but BECAUSE IT'S APPLE, it MUST be put into the headline (gotta bait those links and eyeballs).

As for mobile gamers not wanting to pay much money, most mobile games aren't worth more than $1-2 because they give a $1-2 gaming experience. The microtransaction and F2P rip-offs give $0.02 gaming experiences and then try to rob you blind with in-app purchases. After going through that cycle enough times, mobile games are GOING to become super cautious, especially when they see a pay2play game loaded with microtransactioning, which an increasing number seem to be. IT WAS THE GAME DEVELOPERS WHO DID THIS! NOT APPLE! It was the game developers who built their games this way such to engender a high level of caution and distrust from the gamer, not Apple. It was the game developers who abused the system and trust of the gamer in a shameless attempt to SWINDLE (and I mean it just like that) money from the gamer. Apple merely put the system out there, but it's the GAME DEVELOPERS WHO ABUSED IT! So, no, I don't buy it. I don't believe one second that Apple is frustrated, at all. Apple is ticking along just like it always does. I believe only this particular game developer is frustrated that he can't get what he wants, and he's just trying to grab attention by crying "Apple!".

Another thing, it has been well established that it tends to be Android users who are less inclined to pay for mobile app. iOS users tend to be more inclined to pay for apps, and even pay a fairly high price for the app. Also, a game that is actually good and well worth the money will easily sell for as much as $10, but a piece of shit will struggle even for free (often cause of the shameless, obvious money-grabbing IAPs the free games often get saddled with).

 

[DEAD34345]

"Illogical"? I don't think so. If anything paying less for a game than a cup of coffee makes a lot of sense, games have no inherent value, there's no limited supply of them and they can be replicated infinitely at no cost or effort to anyone. The fact that people are willing to pay anything for that sort of thing at all is something of a miracle, considering it's less like a transaction of goods and more like a selfless donation by consumers in order to support the production of more games.

Back to the main topic though, this shouldn't be at all shocking to anyone. There are a lot more mobile and "casual" gamers than there are "hardcore" gamers, but by definition they aren't as interested in games, and won't be willing to pay much for them. The only reason they play games at all is because they are free, or extremely cheap, and as soon as that's no longer true the interest will usually be lost. Developers just need to decide which audience they want to go for and adjust their expectations and goals accordingly, the smaller group of high paying hobbyists or the larger group of lower paying "casual" gamers.

 

[veloper]

"Illogical"? I don't think so. If anything paying less for a game than a cup of coffee makes a lot of sense, games have no inherent value, there's no limited supply of them and they can be replicated infinitely at no cost or effort to anyone. The fact that people are willing to pay anything for that sort of thing at all is something of a miracle, considering it's less like a transaction of goods and more like a selfless donation by consumers in order to support the production of more games.

This is true and deserves to be repeated, but it's not much of a miracle, because most people haven't got a clue about the value of things anyway.
Most of the time it's about making a product appear desirable to the masses through marketing.

Back to the main topic though, this shouldn't be at all shocking to anyone. There are a lot more mobile and "casual" gamers than there are "hardcore" gamers, but by definition they aren't as interested in games, and won't be willing to pay much for them. The only reason they play games at all is because they are free, or extremely cheap, and as soon as that's no longer true the interest will usually be lost. Developers just need to decide which audience they want to go for and adjust their expectations and goals accordingly, the smaller group of high paying hobbyists or the larger group of lower paying "casual" gamers.

Yeah but why choose just one?
Sell the game at $30 on PC and console in the first months, then gradually drop to $5 over the years and do a $2 port for the apple store halfway. When that's done make a couple cents on every sale through humble bundle.
It adds up until the impatient consumers learn to wait and when will that ever happen?

 

[UberPubert]

What I'm hearing is a game developer crying that he can't charge more for games because market expectations (which have been shaped by the business tactics of other developers) won't allow higher game prices. Then, he just tries to rope Apple into his reasoning without any real evidence; Apple is mentioned only in passing and not given any real connection to the problem, but BECAUSE IT'S APPLE, it MUST be put into the headline (gotta bait those links and eyeballs).

What kind of nonsense is this? First of all, the price Stoic is offering for the banner saga on iOS is the same one they're offering on Steam, because it's primarily a PC game. It has nothing to do with them trying to milk mobile gamers for money and has everything to do with the frustration they and other developers feel at having their premium content ignored on the mobile marketplace, and it's not being directed at Apple, but consumers and other developers.

Second of all, this wasn't a press release from Stoic to get attention, it was part of an interview where they explained their current working relationship with Apple. If anything, they're agreeing with sentiments they see from others - *including* Apple - who want premium content to be sold on the store just as much as anyone else.

Seriously, go read the actual article. For someone who seem so critical of click-bait links to flashy headlines you sure only seemed to have skimmed it.

 

[rasputin0009]

Well, the mobile game market has been historically filled with the most garbage of garbage games. It's hard to expect someone to drop $5 or $10 on a good game when it's surrounded by $5 or $10 pieces of shit. It's also the reason why I haven't bought anything on Steam recently (even the summer sale). Kinda funny that Banner Saga is one of my latest purchases and that was in January.

Strong IP still find ways to be successful, even on mobile. Minecraft is a good example. It costs a solid $5 and sold millions on iPhone and Android. They just need to allow less Candy Crush and more Minecraft on their stores (Yes, I know Candy Crush made more than Minecraft, but King will be dying out like Zynga is within the next 5 years).

 

[LadyLightning]

Smartphones are not gaming devices. They are communications devices which happen to have some shitty "games" on the side. I'm sorry, but if you want a gaming device you can take with you, you're better off looking into a 3DS. It's cheaper than most of the latest smartphones, and actually designed for gaming. It has more full-featured titles available as well, such as Pokemon, Fire Emblem, or the wonderfully amazing Bravely Default, as well as all the emulated virtual console stuff you could want.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

ok im siding with most people here, i blame dem casuls for dis

but i just thought of a solution, maybe, divide the game in chapters for mobile and sell each chapter individually at a lower price point

 

[dynath]

I'd like to call myself out as a Casual gamer. though I don't game on mobile much. I have a PC that has steam and gog on it but I've spent maybe 50 dollars on games in the past 3 years. I never understand the logic of "they pay X amount for this so we can charge more" I bought a PC for games because I can still find games under 20 dollars. In my day I get maybe 10 minutes to play a game. Even if I bought banner saga, even if I got the chance to play it start to finish with the play length they expect, I'd be playing it 10 minutes at a time for the next 12 years. Not every game... no scratch that. NO GAME is a ground breaking experience that moves heaven and earth and changes my life forever. They are toys. Toys used to distract me from the fact that the universe is a bit boring at times. I may have paid 400 bucks for my computer, somewhere along the line I paid a few hundred for my iPhone (don't rightly remember). But the product the game producers are selling isn't worth 50 bucks to me and never will be. I may pay 4 dollars for a coffee that I get to enjoy for 10 minutes before its cold but the game itself isn't as valuable to me, partly because of the money already invested in the device. But mostly because it is a time waster, its there to fill time and nothing more, it competes with Radio and TV over the air, free products that I can just turn on and "Enjoy" for 10 minutes without an expense. Yeah if I really like Radio or TV I can pay for premium services but I won't because I don't like them that much. It took me 30 minutes at work to earn my 4 dollars of coffee, I gotta save some money somewhere. If everyone keeps insisting customers pay "premium" prices to be time wasters pretty soon they'll price themselves out of the market. Only so many things can demand my money at a time and eventually my Car, Rent, Food, Utilities, and such will win out against my morning coffee but those things already win against the toys I play with occasionally, when I get the chance. I'm sorry Banner Saga, I'm just not that into you.