Bargain - Cyberpunk 2077 pc ver is just 43$ on PAsia

[meiam]

In other words, you know the working conditions for game devs are exploitative, abusive and inhumane. You just don't give a shit.

I would rather wait another year for a game to come out and have it be good than have that game rushed out at the expense of the well-being of the devs.

Inhumaine? Pretty sure if employee were dying at the job we'd be hearing about it. Maybe you consider the conditions exploitative and therefore you've chosen not to work for them, that's fine, that's your choice. But you're someone with only second hand information about the job condition while the employee who are working on the game have first hand experience, if they've decided that to keep working for them rather than quit, that's their decision (unless you believe that they're literally chained at their desk and unable to leave).

 

[SilentPony]

Unless you believe that they're literally chained at their desk and unable to leave.

I think the worry is more that its career suicide if they quit over crunch conditions. My brother is a game programmer and you go from studio to studio, project to project a lot. HR is always talking to other studios, and there is a very good chance if you quit in protest you'll have a reputation as someone who stirs up shit, isn't a team player and buckles under pressure. And good luck getting anyone to hire you after that.

 

[Buyetyen]

Inhumaine? Pretty sure if employee were dying at the job we'd be hearing about it. Maybe you consider the conditions exploitative and therefore you've chosen not to work for them, that's fine, that's your choice. But you're someone with only second hand information about the job condition while the employee who are working on the game have first hand experience, if they've decided that to keep working for them rather than quit, that's their decision (unless you believe that they're literally chained at their desk and unable to leave).

If the line you draw between humane treatment and inhumane treatment is pre-meditated murder, then you've put zero thought into this.

I'm not buying games made with crunch, and no amount of consumer shaming from you is going to change my mind. Game dev unions now!

 

[Buyetyen]

I think the worry is more that its career suicide if they quit over crunch conditions. My brother is a game programmer and you go from studio to studio, project to project a lot. HR is always talking to other studios, and there is a very good chance if you quit in protest you'll have a reputation as someone who stirs up shit, isn't a team player and buckles under pressure. And good luck getting anyone to hire you after that.

Exactly. Worker's rights in the game industry would be a joke if they weren't so depressing.

But hey, it's all good because the l33t gamers can buy an over-priced luxury item sooner than they would have without exploitative working conditions. This is how sweatshop labor ends up being normalized.

 

[meiam]

I think the worry is more that its career suicide if they quit over crunch conditions. My brother is a game programmer and you go from studio to studio, project to project a lot. HR is always talking to other studios, and there is a very good chance if you quit in protest you'll have a reputation as someone who stirs up shit, isn't a team player and buckles under pressure. And good luck getting anyone to hire you after that.

It's perfectly possible to quit without protest, you literally don't have to give a reason, you can just... leave (or make up a reason if you want like changing city or w/e).

 

[Buyetyen]

It's perfectly possible to quit without protest, you literally don't have to give a reason, you can just... leave (or make up a reason if you want like changing city or w/e).

And you think there are no consequences for that? Your argument against me was that I don't know what working conditions there are really like. But apparently you think you do?

 

[SilentPony]

It's perfectly possible to quit without protest, you literally don't have to give a reason, you can just... leave (or make up a reason if you want like changing city or w/e).

But you don't quit in a void. Your next boss will ask why you did it, and not giving a reason is even worse because it tells potential employers you can't be reliable. You'll just leave randomly one day for no reason. Regardless of the industry there is no such thing as quitting and it not effecting your reputation, and in an industry as small and inter-woven as game development people will talk, and quickly.

 

[Dreiko]

In other words, you know the working conditions for game devs are exploitative, abusive and inhumane. You just don't give a shit.

I would rather wait another year for a game to come out and have it be good than have that game rushed out at the expense of the well-being of the devs.

I don't think you can consider a game that was being made for the past 6 years as rushed out in any sense of the term lmao. That's basically the entire duration of that console generation right there.


Also, they DID delay the game, three times if not more if memory serves. So this is them doing exactly what you suggest, which, as it turns out, apparently doesn't prevent crunch from ALSO being a necessity.

 

[Buyetyen]

I don't think you can consider a game that was being made for the past 6 years as rushed out in any sense of the term lmao. That's basically the entire duration of that console generation right there.


Also, they DID delay the game, three times if not more if memory serves. So this is them doing exactly what you suggest, which, as it turns out, apparently doesn't prevent crunch from ALSO being a necessity.

Crunch is only "necessary" if management suck at their jobs.

 

[Dreiko]

Crunch is only "necessary" if management suck at their jobs.

Yeah but that means you suck at management because they did delay the game something like 8 months already and it didn't seem to help anything like you suggest, it was supposed to come out back in Spring initially, April or something.

Also, note that they will be putting out free dlc in the future. This is very much like with crunch, they won't get any money directly for their work, but it will push the game indirectly due to its increase in quality. Also, you may be overlooking the fact that the employees volunteered for the crunch and weren't threatened into it, in this particular case. CDPR is actually just a bunch of devoted fans of gaming who wanna make games more so than they wanna take home money. I mean, they would only spend it on gaming and other geeky activities anyways lol. They're even making an anime by Trigger based on this universe. People who'd go out of their way to hire the Kill La Kill people are not the type to care about a few all-nighters.

 

[Buyetyen]

Yeah but that means you suck at management because they did delay the game something like 8 months already and it didn't seem to help anything like you suggest, it was supposed to come out back in Spring initially, April or something.

Or their management just fucking sucks if they delay the game and still can't get it out without crunch.

 

[Dreiko]

Or their management just fucking sucks if they delay the game and still can't get it out without crunch.

Or they just all agreed to do it to make the best game ever because they are passionate about it so they adjusted their plans to include the volunteer crunching in shaping their goals. You have no reason to be negative when you could also be positive about this. It's kinda like a dogmatic thing more so than something supported by evidence at this point.

 

[Buyetyen]

Or they just all agreed to do it to make the best game ever because they are passionate about it so they adjusted their plans to include the volunteer crunching in shaping their goals. You have no reason to be negative when you could also be positive about this. It's kinda like a dogmatic thing more so than something supported by evidence at this point.

This is not an argument, this is banal platitudes. Why are you so emotionally invested in me buying this game?

 

[Dreiko]

This is not an argument, this is banal platitudes. Why are you so emotionally invested in me buying this game?

I'm invested in things beyond money mattering in the realm of art and creation, and this is just a facet of that.

 

[Buyetyen]

I'm invested in things beyond money mattering in the realm of art and creation, and this is just a facet of that.

Straight up, you sound exactly like the people who tried to lowball me when I worked as a magician for a few years. "Money shouldn't matter! It's about the art!"