Batman v Superman Writer Called Out For Sexist She-Hulk Shaming

[Kmadden2004]

How does Goyer keep getting work? The guy is just terrible, he's the writer equivalent of Shyamalan, and I weep for any movie which has the misfortune of being penned by him.

Well, he did cling to the Nolans' coattails pretty tight for all those years, so now every time he's brought up on TV or in articles it's always "David S. Goyer, writer of The Dark Knight Trilogy"

That actually makes my "he's the Shyamalan of writers" seem all the more fitting. I'm not that big of a fan of DC, but they have my sympathy because of what his man has done.

Well, in my opinion, Goyer's much closer to somebody like Brannon Braga; he's kind of a multiplying factor in the writer's room. When you partner him up with a stronger, better, more disciplined creative force (like Nolan, Guillermo Del Toro or Alex Proyas), you get a good, maybe even great script.

But partner him up with somebody who's not particularly good, or just complacent (or, even worse, leave Goyer to his own devices) you end up with a half-baked script, plot holes galore and cheesy dialogue.

He's basically like a kid left alone in a kitchen and told to bake a cake; without any adult supervision he just ends up wrecking the place and overdoses on cookies and chocolate milkshake.

 

[Zontar]

How does Goyer keep getting work? The guy is just terrible, he's the writer equivalent of Shyamalan, and I weep for any movie which has the misfortune of being penned by him.

Well, he did cling to the Nolans' coattails pretty tight for all those years, so now every time he's brought up on TV or in articles it's always "David S. Goyer, writer of The Dark Knight Trilogy"

That actually makes my "he's the Shyamalan of writers" seem all the more fitting. I'm not that big of a fan of DC, but they have my sympathy because of what his man has done.

Well, in my opinion, Goyer's much closer to somebody like Brannon Braga; he's kind of a multiplying factor in the writer's room. When you partner him up with a stronger, better, more disciplined creative force (like Nolan, Guillermo Del Toro or Alex Proyas), you get a good, maybe even great script.

But partner him up with somebody who's not particularly good, or just complacent (or, even worse, leave Goyer to his own devices) you end up with a half-baked script, plot holes galore and cheesy dialogue.

He's basically like a kid left alone in a kitchen and told to bake a cake; without any adult supervision he just ends up wrecking the place and overdoses on cookies and chocolate milkshake.

I see your point, though your mentioning of Del Toro reminds me: didn't DC try and have Del Toro take a role for the DCCU which was basically Kevin Feige and Joss Whedon's roles with the MCU combined? I remember hearing that or something along those lines last year. Seems to not be true, but god do I wish it was.

 

[Kmadden2004]

snip.

Del Toro was talking to WB about making a Justice League Dark movie. He still says he wishes to make it, but obviously Del Toro's off shooting Crimson Peak right now with (reportedly) a Pacific Rim sequel after that, and about a couple dozen other possible projects on his plate alongside those (as both director and producer).

That's one of the things that's both so fantastic and so frustrating about Del Toro, he always has so many projects floating around his head at any one time, it's kind of hard to pin him down to one in particular.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

So this is the guy more or less in charge of the first live action Wonder Woman appearance in decades as a side character? Well, that fills me with absolutely no confidence. If he wasn't the reason WW hadn't gotten her own movie yet, I'm pretty sure he'll be the reason she doesn't for a few more decades. And they'll probably blame Wonder Woman.

Captcha: Pandora's Box

Maybe fitting.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Maybe there's an angle to She-Hulk I'm missing, but when you have two different genders of more or less the same character, with the male looking like a fugly caveman and the female being all tall, green, and sexy, these remarks don't seem that unfounded.

The way he expressed it leaves a lot be desired from a professional, but I can't say I'm too upset over She-Hulk getting shamed.

 

[Callate]

I think if we're going to get in a twist any time someone says something off the cuff like this, we're quickly going to lose the right to complain when the only PR people we can get a quote from recite boilerplate in a monotone directly off of the company's web site.

Yeah, it was kind of a stupid thing to say- but are we really going to get all torches and pitchforks over something this trivial and petty? Can we just say, "That was stupid, and doesn't reflect well on how you do your job"- and move on?

 

[katsabas]

Respect to the guy, he co-wrote the Dark Knight. And the fact that they went overboard with depicting her as an amazonian beauty is right but...honestly?

Plus, during the Civil War, she defended the anti-registration heroes in court so that they wouldn't end up in a prison built in the Negative Zone. That's pretty awesome. You'd think someone whose livelihood depends on comic books would know more about the characters and be a bit more subtle about the statements he makes.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Goddamn, DC just cannot catch a break, can they.

OT: Meh, silly casual remark made on silly casual podcast is silly. No one should be losing sleep or gnashing teeth (that rhymes, I will use that from now on)

 

[Vault101]

He was clearly joking about a fictional character. I hate when types of "controversies" come out. Just say it, "I don't like David Goyer." Hell, explain why in detail. I hated Man of Steel, too. Don't wait around and pick apart what he says like a petty child. I hope he doesn't apologize for this utter nonsense.

and if I said Batwoman is a [i/]"dumb dyke that needs a real mans dick"[/i] it would still be an awful thing to say, and reflect my actual attitudes about gay people regardless of the fact Batwoman is fictional

The way he expressed it leaves a lot be desired from a professional, but I can't say I'm too upset over She-Hulk getting shamed.

why not? because attractive isn't a clear indication of somones number of sexual partners, being attractive and wearing sexualised clothing does not indicates the number of somones sexual partners

the number of somones sexual partners should not reflect negativly on their characher

 

[Mister K]

I am far, FAR from being an expert in graphic novels, but isn't She-Hulk one of the few female characters who actually LOOK like someone who can lift a car and is still feminine? Plus, as far as I know, she is one of the few characters that actually has a job besides heroics, plus it really high-class one.

Meanwhile, the most iconic female character from DC is a woman with quite... lush body, who always wears star-painted panties. Oh, and her weapon of choice is a LASSO. Not even a goddamn whip. A lasso. Yeah...

 

[PunkRex]

I was just thinking how interesting it would be for them to put her in the Marvel universe the other day. I don't read the comics but from what i've seen of the character, is it right to assume she's kind of flirty, I could just imagine her as the perfect foil to Tony Stark.

 

[Lieju]

Maybe there's an angle to She-Hulk I'm missing, but when you have two different genders of more or less the same character, with the male looking like a fugly caveman and the female being all tall, green, and sexy, these remarks don't seem that unfounded.

The way he expressed it leaves a lot be desired from a professional, but I can't say I'm too upset over She-Hulk getting shamed.

I have problems with the way female superheroes aren't allowed to be as diverse as the males.
However, he isn't critiquing that.

He is saying that She-hulk was created as a sexual fantasy, not a character, and that's what she SHOULD be like, because nerds are lonely 10-year old boys.

From this site:
http://www.themarysue.com/david-goyer-calls-she-hulk-sex-fantasy/

Goyer asked, ?How many people in the audience have heard of Martian Manhunter?? After hearing some light applause and cheers, he added, ?How many people that raised their hands have ever been laid??

And how he would bring Martian Man-hunter in the big screen:

Goyer went on: ?I would set it up like The Day After Tomorrow. We discover one of those Earth-like planets? So maybe like? we get the DNA code from that planet and then grow him in a petri dish here? He?s like in Area 51 or something and we?re just basically? doing biopsies on him. Then he gets out and he?s really angry and he fucks She-Hulk.?

He probably wasn't serious there (or maybe he doesn't know She-Hulk is Marvel, dunno) but he still just used She-Hulk as a punchline.

Also calling character a slut based on what, exactly? She was created as attractive, so the character is a slut? So basically all comic-book females apart from Aunt May and Martha Kent are sluts?

Even if she was written horribly, and only created to have sex with the male heroes, don't call her slut, critique the writing!

 

[zelda2fanboy]

[
and if I said Batwoman is a [i/]"dumb dyke that needs a real mans dick"[/i] it would still be an awful thing to say, and reflect my actual attitudes about gay people regardless of the fact Batwoman is fictional

Yeah, and he didn't say that. You did. He said that she looks kind of like Chyna (she does) and that she seems to exist to be a love interest for the Hulk (which at a first glance, she does). And while I don't use words like "slut" (because I don't judge women for having sex), a lot of people do and it doesn't have always all the negative connotations a slur for a smaller minority group might have.

I propose an amended headline. Podcast host suggests he does not care for promiscuous women. David S Goyer attempts to change subject.

 

[wulf3n]

Holy crap I've entered Bizarro world.

Someone criticizes the blatantly sexualized fan-service that is She-Hulk and gets attacked by the very people who say the same thing ad nauseum.

How is this any different from the myriad of "criticisms" leveled at the Necromancer from Dragons Crowne?

 

[Vault101]

Yeah, and he didn't say that. You did.

youre not supposed to take that at face value, I was making a point

[quote/]He said that she looks kind of like Chyna (she does) and that [b/]she seems to exist to be a love interest for the Hulk [/b](which at a first glance, she does).[/quote]
yeah and I could have said that I REALLY meant "Batwoman should not rule out the possibility of being with a guy"[footnote/]which I think is still a sucky thing to say to a lesbian but I digress[/footnote] when I said she was a "dumb dyke who needed a real man" but we both know whats in between the lines

my point is your glossing over his use of words....

[quote/]And while I don't use words like "slut" (because I don't judge women for having sex), a lot of people do and it doesn't have always all the negative connotations a slur for a smaller minority group might have.
t.[/quote]

the ONLY times I can think of that "slut" doesn't have negative connotations (and I say that very lightly) is if a girl is joking around with her freind where their both on familiar enough terms, or when used as a bit of creative dirty talk in the bedroom

this was neither of those times

 

[Trishbot]

From the genius beyond Blade Trinity...

I'm very much starting to think that the Dark Knight movies were either a stroke of luck, or Nolan kept all the terrible ideas out...

Seriously, this is embarrassing. Sexist and embarrassing.

Girls read comics too (I can vouch for that), and Sensational She-Hulk is what got me into comics in the first place.

And I can easily attest that a single, hilarious, imaginative issue of She-Hulk from that era was more entertaining than anything David Goyer has written.

Geez, and this is the guy they decided to help bring Wonder Woman to the big screen? Directed by the guy that felt he needed to ADD in a rape scene to a Frank Miller adaptation?

 

[Mazinger-Z]

Well, in my opinion, Goyer's much closer to somebody like Brannon Braga; he's kind of a multiplying factor in the writer's room. When you partner him up with a stronger, better, more disciplined creative force (like Nolan, Guillermo Del Toro or Alex Proyas), you get a good, maybe even great script.

But partner him up with somebody who's not particularly good, or just complacent (or, even worse, leave Goyer to his own devices) you end up with a half-baked script, plot holes galore and cheesy dialogue.

He's basically like a kid left alone in a kitchen and told to bake a cake; without any adult supervision he just ends up wrecking the place and overdoses on cookies and chocolate milkshake.

Yeah, a lot of people are giving him props for JSA, but if you go back on Comic Vine and checkout the writing credits, I think he partnered up with Geoff Johns (who's famous for interweaving a bunch of old concepts into new spins) for each issue. Pretty sure he needs a writer to give him the vision and he writes the details like dialogue.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

I think this deserves a Big Picture episode. Also, maybe we'll get Jen on the big screen sooner rather than later.

 

[90sgamer]

Sexism: "is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender." [wikipedia]
Prejudice: "prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case" [wikipedia]
Discrimination: "prejudicial treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category" [wikipedia]

Mr. Chipman. You penned the title to this article, " could you explain why you think the expressions, "She's still pretty chunky. She was like Chyna from the WWE." and/or, "A chick you could f*** if you were Hulk, you know what I'm saying?" are sexist or even shaming?

*looks at description*
*looks at question*

Are you serious? I really can't tell.

Anyway, the "chunky" but is pretty freaking stupid in this context. I mean, has he seen the Hulk?

If you can't tell whether I'm serious or not then I have some bad news for you about your reading comprehension. It's quite simple. I provided the definition of sexism as set forth in Wikipedia, which is generally accepted as accurate and true, and the allegedly sexist statements. All you need to do is explain how those statements satisfy the elements set forth in the definition.

Many SJW can't make a distinction between these two phrases:
1. Of course she can't drive, because she is a woman.
2. Of course she can't drive, because is a woman with 10 at-fault collisions on her report within the last five years, and 3 DUIs.

One statement implies sexism. The other most definitely does not imply sexism.