Yeah, someone who lost their election in Georgia is going to flip Georgia. And, someone who attaches themselves to every Democratic spooky PAC and corporate-wing think tank, who opposes substantive campaign finance reform and progressive taxation, is totally a progressive. Right. Even when she ran in Georgia she barely managed to kludge together a platform that barely passed corporate Democratic muster, and you expect to convince anyone she's anywhere but center-right?
Bernie/Biden task force presents suggestions
- Thread starter dreng3
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Gonna be anyways, Biden won't appoint anyone further left than Garland, and Garland's jurisprudence was hot garbage.
Gonna happen anyways with that platform.
They won't get it anyways with an engineered-to-fail bargaining position.
Compared to a coalition of neo-McCarthyists and wannabe Cold Warriors who are already making rape-y eyes at Venezuela despite not even being in office yet, who are collectively buttmad Trump didn't start WWIII with Iran?
Biden's campaign is literally being advertised with Warren G. Harding's campaign slogan.
- Apr 1, 2009
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Lol, you really are just the "I give up, lets all stick our heads in the sand and hope the perfect candidate appears and saves us without us doing anything."
- Apr 1, 2009
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Having principles and standing by them is the opposite of defeatist.
Someone who lost an election in which voter rolls were massively purged and where the winner was found to have commited a crime? Yeah, I'd say she has a chance, she only lost the election by 50,000 and if you leverage the anger at Kemp and his support for Trump you should be able to score some points there, and Georgia was only lost by 5 points in 2016.
As for her policies, she is still more progressive on certain points than Biden, and while I would definitely rather see someone like Warren I don't think she palatable to a large number of people.
But declaring that you'd rather have defeat if you cannot have absolute perfection on all policy points is.
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Except that none of these things are principles, these are assumptions. Hes assuming the worse case scenario about all of this. Hes assuming Biden would pick essentially a republican, hes assuming that nothing can or will be done about global warming, hes assuming any healthcare deal Biden does will fail. He is extremely biased in his thinking and I doubt there is anything anyone could do to break him out of it.
It's not about perfection. The policies being proposed aren't going to do what they say they'll do and it's been proven by past experience. It's like how people propose socialism as if all the honey words make up for the history that shows it never works.
No, I'm looking at Biden's 36 years in the Senate and his legislative record, past statements, and policy positions, as well as that of the Obama administration in sum as he was its key surrogate, and making educated guesses as to what a Biden presidency might look like in contrast to what is being promised. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, and only the most egregious of fools would look at an entirely consistent lifelong record of a 77-year-old career politician and think that only in the past three months, after having secured the Democratic presidential nomination, he had a sudden and uncharacteristic change of heart.
Especially when that same person is on his third presidential bid, the first having been destroyed by a plagiarism scandal and the second having been destroyed by racially- and culturally-insensitive comments on the campaign trail.
Ughhh the climate section is so depressing, removing all electricity made from carbon by 2035?! Who's insane enough to think that's even remotely feasible? I think climate change is the most important issues we've ever faced as a species, but it's beyond ridiculous how out-of-touch the left/environmental movement are with reality. The actual climate section spend more time talking about societal change/justice/holding your hand and singing kumbawa than actual environmental change. Only two mentions of nuclear, both say the same generic thing. Similarly just three mention of carbon capture with no specific beyond "we hope it happen". No mention of coherent geo engineering plan.
At this point I place more faith in the oil sector somehow miraculously deciding to fix the environment than the environmental movement itself.
At this point I place more faith in the oil sector somehow miraculously deciding to fix the environment than the environmental movement itself.
- Apr 1, 2009
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As far as I can see, you have an extremely biased view of things so even if you are doing research into the past and actions and such, I think you are approaching them with the most negative interpretations possible.
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The problem is that is actually what it will probably take since they have put a lot of money into denying it. We would probably need them to really push hard to help us actually get through policies that would almost certainly hurt their bottom line.
Past behavior without consideration of the reasoning behind it is a terrible predictor of the future. You can't just know "someone did this in the past" and assume they'll do it again unless you also consider why they did it the first time. If Joe Biden has a perfectly consistent record of following the party line and then the party line changes, why would he not be expected to change?
Edit: It's probably worth waiting to see what the 2020 party platform looks like before guessing at what a Biden presidency would be.
Second edit: And with that in mind, stick me in the "I'm not counting on any of this task force stuff sticking just yet" camp.
Then you should research this yourself, Worgen. The kinds of things the Democratic party is talking about here are the same things people talked about in Europe 100 years ago. Don't let them just boondoggle you, they don't actually want anything to change.
- Apr 1, 2009
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No, I'm assuming a neutral one, they might work, they might not, we will have to see. Hes already really far down the "everything is fucked, better we don't do anything" hole.
I have and while they are far from perfect, they do ultimately seem to be trying in the fucked up system we have here. It really does seem like a lot of reasons shit hits the fan is because of republicans or because issues are more complicated then people assume. As I said before, for climate change we had decent plans, then they got rolled back once democrats were out of power.
I'm not sure how many times this has been pointed out, so I will point it out once more: the Never Bidens on this forum do not view Biden as a compromise, they view him as a defeat. That is the fundamental point of communication breakdown on this topic. It's not "well, we don't get everything we want under Biden, but just shoulder on I suppose", it's "Biden in the Whitehouse will actively set back my interests". The only counter-argument made, and indeed able to be made, is that "Biden will set you back less than Trump would". But these people are free to make their own determination of that, and they have. Such is not defeatism, it's thinking through your vote instead of following a herd mentality in a panicked stampede.
I'm apart from that, in that in all likelihood I will be voting for Biden, but I am doing so based on my own judgement of the prevalent upcoming challenges of the next 4 years and how each candidate will handle them, not from fear mongering or guilting. Others have their own judgements, and their own interests I may scarcely know about. Eacaraxe, for instance, is hoping Trump will destroy the news media industry. That's not a particular interest of mine, and my judgement doubts the likelihood of that occurrence. But it is his decision as to where his interests lay and how he thinks they'll be best fulfilled, and it doesn't help to scream at him that his values do not include caring for the lives of #interestgroupoftheweek, as if holding various interest groups hostage is any kind of moral stance.
Which were made again this time, but were forgiven so that the senile Lord of the Morning could do battle with the mentally addled Demon of Darkness to save us all, per the favorite prophecy of Dee'N'Sea. So it was written, so it shall be.
You're absolutely right, we totally should. Let's take it from the man himself:
Where do we begin, do we begin with his financial and political ties to MBNA up to and including the hiring of his son, heralding a decades-long record of financial deregulation culminating in the bankruptcy bill? Do we begin with financial and political ties to the du Pont family and corporation, and the strange case of the confessed child rapist du Pont heir who walked with only probation? Dare I to speak ill of the dead, I'd ask the rhetorical question of who was Delaware's AG at the time and oversaw the prosecution of the case.
It's not as if our humble Presidential candidate hails from and represented for decades a state that is the most notorious tax shelter in North America.
Should we begin with Biden's campaign of winning hearts and minds within Hollywood and the recording industry by advocating and legislating for stringent intellectual property and electronic surveillance law, up to and including the '96 Telecoms Act and DMCA?
See, here's the problem. When I said he has a consistent record, you simply assumed I meant consistently following the party platform. If only that were the case. No, his record of selling his vote, his access, even his family, is what's consistent. Because he did "go back when he was 40", and by the time he went back the state of Delaware was no longer ruled by a degenerate family who made their 20th Century fortune manufacturing WMD precursor chemicals, it was ruled by the financial sector. He was more than happy to, in his own words, "prostitute himself", and he never looked back while the middle class and American minorities paid cost after cost.
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