Best Sci-fi show
- Thread starter Master-Jedi
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It depends on what kind of Sci-Fi you like.
Star Trek has a lock on the Shakespearean Dramatics.
Stargate focused more on "Everyman" Snark.
Dr. Who is very very British... I don't how else to put it. (that's not a bad thing)
Farscape went for the extreme WTF factor.
Firefly was space cowboys. (Or Buffy in space if you prefer)
Battlestar Galactica was pure soap opera.
Babylon 5 was probably the most realistic scientifically.
Andromeda was camp of the very best kind.
Earth: Final Conflict was highly underrated if a little corny at times.
As you can tell I've watched a fair amount of Sci-Fi over the years. In the end though, I consider myself a Trekkie. Star Trek has held up so well through the years in both story and special effects. The final showdown between the Federation and the Dominion/Cardassians at the end of DS9 is amazing. Even though it was first aired almost 13 years ago!
Star Trek has a lock on the Shakespearean Dramatics.
Stargate focused more on "Everyman" Snark.
Dr. Who is very very British... I don't how else to put it. (that's not a bad thing)
Farscape went for the extreme WTF factor.
Firefly was space cowboys. (Or Buffy in space if you prefer)
Battlestar Galactica was pure soap opera.
Babylon 5 was probably the most realistic scientifically.
Andromeda was camp of the very best kind.
Earth: Final Conflict was highly underrated if a little corny at times.
As you can tell I've watched a fair amount of Sci-Fi over the years. In the end though, I consider myself a Trekkie. Star Trek has held up so well through the years in both story and special effects. The final showdown between the Federation and the Dominion/Cardassians at the end of DS9 is amazing. Even though it was first aired almost 13 years ago!
Good lord, the "best"? That's damned hard to say as there are quite a few great ones out there.
Star Trek (TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), Stargate (SG1, Atlantis, Universe), Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Fringe, Farscape, Red Dwarf, The X-Files, Doctor Who, Sliders (until season 3), Eureka, Warehouse 13, Futurama, The Walking Dead, etc, etc, etc. All fantastic.
So, for me personally, I couldn't possibly pick one as "the best". However, I can say without doubt that science fiction is the "best" story telling genre there is.
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Okay, well...if I HAD to pick, I'd probably choose Star Trek. Most notably The Next Generation.
Going back to the episodes, even now, they still hold. Fairly impressive for a sci-fi, relatively CG-heavy TV show from almost two decades ago.
Star Trek (TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), Stargate (SG1, Atlantis, Universe), Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Fringe, Farscape, Red Dwarf, The X-Files, Doctor Who, Sliders (until season 3), Eureka, Warehouse 13, Futurama, The Walking Dead, etc, etc, etc. All fantastic.
So, for me personally, I couldn't possibly pick one as "the best". However, I can say without doubt that science fiction is the "best" story telling genre there is.
How coincidentally apropos. Thank you for that.Belaam said:
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Okay, well...if I HAD to pick, I'd probably choose Star Trek. Most notably The Next Generation.
Going back to the episodes, even now, they still hold. Fairly impressive for a sci-fi, relatively CG-heavy TV show from almost two decades ago.
I've been drinking and I'm going to bed soon. So lets all try to be tolerant.GrandmaFunk said:
To address your first paragraph: No it wasn't.
In a longer statement, this show did not focus on the Federation in the slightest. It focused on rouge factions out of Bajor and rogue factions the Federation had somehow managed to disown. If the Federation were already a utopia that wouldn't have happened or Pircard would have flipped the bird at the unknown colony the Sheliak were going to eat. These were colonies the Federation seeded personally and knew people on, had ties to. The whole Cardassian/Federation/Bajor thing was ridiculousness that Berman wrote in. It was never included in TNG as something that happened. That isn't to say it isn't cannon, but that is to say it had nothing to do with the previous Star Trek shows because it hadn't been invented yet. And yes, I do claim the series had a flawed premise, as my argument basically states in all but huge letters.
The series did nothing to suggest the Federation council wasn't just any other corrupt governing body. It did nothing to suggest that Star Fleet wasn't just another military with a quaint excuse for being one. It might have wanted to dress up Star Fleet in pretend, but all it did was make Sisco look like the only Star Fleet officer...
The idea is to identify human traits. Things that we can do to make ourselves better. It isn't a joke or something when it's said that people predicted a friendship between the Klingons and the Federation. It's sort of nuts to predict that when you see them at one another?s throats in the first series. But Roddenberry made it pan out. Because humans can do that. We can make peace with our enemies under the right conditions and we can make those conditions materialize humanely. Anything Sisko did that was remotely outside the grey to resolve a situation wasn't human, it was alien. Everything he did could or could not have been alien. All depends what argument you put forth. So how is that a guide? How is that something that's helping us progress? It doesn't show anything new, it shows the same old nonsense. Star Trek isn't there to convert, its there to teach the younger generation how to try and do things better. How to look at things in a better way. Sisko doesn't do that. Sisko shows us the flaws in a fundamentally flawed and static system. That isn't terribly helpful. Yes this is me drunk. If I were sober I'd give you the properly spelled out dates looked up with episode numbers and the like. I'm not going there, I've been drinking. That's not to say I'm wrong that's to say research is someone else's problem until at least tomorrow morning.
Besides I find the idea that DS9 successfully carried the Star Trek spirit ridiculous. Doesn't mean the show wasn't good for whatever reasons you think it was. I just think the show wasn't good Star Trek. Your going to have as tough a time arguing that as I have. But if you feel like it feel free, its a free forum...
LONG LIVE THE MODS! Sorry, I couldn't resist. LOL
The rouge faction of the federation was the Maquis, and they were introduced in TNG (According to Memory Alpha [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Maquis]) Actually, the whole problem with the Cardassians was a big plot line in TNG. The occupation of Bajor was mentioned in the episode "Ensign Ro" in 1991 (the Pilot of DS9 aired in 1993). So all of the stuff that involved the Cardassian/Federation/Bajor thing had their origins in TNG and was used more extensively in DS9. In my opinion, that's one of the strong points of DS9. They took plot treds form TNG and expanded on them, which made the show feel more like a ongoing story (unlike voyager, which used the Maquis premises for about 3 episodes despite them being a big part of the crew).Namehere said:
I don't really know what the heck you are talking about in your second paragraph. Are you saying that DS9 was telling people that the federation is corrupt or something? Its not like it was as depressing as the Battlestar Galactica, it had plots that showed the good side of humanity and the federation as much as the bad.
Firefly, Jericho and Falling Skies for shows in the last 20 years
From my childhood Battlestar Galactica, Original V series (you know the one with Freddy Kruger in it. lol) The Incredible Hulk and Six Million Dollar Man.
From my childhood Battlestar Galactica, Original V series (you know the one with Freddy Kruger in it. lol) The Incredible Hulk and Six Million Dollar Man.
If were allowed to pick animated shows than Cowboy Bebop takes the cake for me. I'd like to imagine the cake would be chocolate topped with crumbled walnuts on top, awesome.
Of all time? Tough call between SG1, Atlantis, Dr Who and few others.
BUT if we're talking still on the air, Fringe. Think LOST but with a mythology they actually fully worked out beforehand not to mention some incredible acting (love you John Noble) and very strong and consistent characterization and character development. If they can nail the landing the final season it will likely be favourite scifi if not possibly just favourite TV show of all time.
Watch Fringe, the first season and a half varies between good and ok but from there on it's simply fantastic.
BUT if we're talking still on the air, Fringe. Think LOST but with a mythology they actually fully worked out beforehand not to mention some incredible acting (love you John Noble) and very strong and consistent characterization and character development. If they can nail the landing the final season it will likely be favourite scifi if not possibly just favourite TV show of all time.
Watch Fringe, the first season and a half varies between good and ok but from there on it's simply fantastic.
The show ended so bleakly. Razak dead, and a second wave of Bugs descending on Earth. Dammit, now I need to watch that show again, so awesome. Except for some of the dialogue.Nouw said:
I'm sorry about the constant Quoting, this is getting long, but I'm new to the forums and don't want to be seen to edit your posts or anything so I'm not sure how this ?snip? thing people do works.Master-Jedi said:
Well as I see it, the Federation doesn't have that 'bad' side to it. That was the point of Star Trek, showing what it is when people rid themselves of that. So yea, the Federation was supposed to be something of a Utopia. Its problem was never minor corruption or hunger or poverty or internal unrest, its problem was always how to deal with the Klingons with out an act of virtual or real genocide. That's why Star Trek Six was such a pseudo big deal: ?Don't believe them, don't trust them!? ?Jim they're dying.? ?Let them die!? This is very anti-Star Trek and shocking lines out of Captain Kirk which he latter all but ate.
How we become the Federation isn't so important as the idea that we can. Its a lot like the arguments swirling around multiculturalism in the EU. Germany claims its an epic failure. How Germany or any state on Earth becomes a multicultural society that cares for ALL of its people in the same way isn't nearly as important to the future as that it does though. And if everyone in Germany were to believe that multiculturalism can't work they'd stop trying to make it work. Star Trek is about keeping the faith in those initiatives alive.
As for that episode it seems to me those were all Bajoran colonies. IE not Federation citizens, no different from Canada's old stance on the Palestinian issue. It sucks but the Federation/Canada isn't directing resources towards it outside of food aid and negotiators. In DS9 they upped the anti though and claimed that it wasn't just old Bajoran colonies that were abandon but Federation colonies as well. And so they got humans in on the act. Humans not behaving at their best, not demonstrating a better life but lashing out in fear and anger. Man I can turn on the news for that I don't need Star Trek to tell me. That's what I'm saying.
And yea, the Federation was thoroughly corrupt in DS9. Difference between the Federation and the Dominion, next to non existent. Just two major powers fighting for domination using any and all means at their disposal. A man who fights with any means to achieve a victory over evil becomes the evil he fights. It flies in the face of what Picard said in the very first episode when Riker asked what they'd do about Q: ?If we are to be damned Number One, let us be damned for who we are.? The episode where Sisko deliberate misleads the Romulans to get them onside? I don't see Picard doing that.
These are little things, but these little things make all the difference between Star Trek while Gene Roddenberry was alive and Star Trek after Rick Berman took over. If your younger I can understand the confusion over the issue, a lot of older fans, which is I guess to say around my age of 31 and up, have similar feelings about the show having lost its way.
So I'm not saying DS9 was bad TV, I want to make that clear, or that you shouldn't like it. I'm just saying DS9 wasn't good never mind great Star Trek. Its also not a matter of debate really its just a matter of what you expect of the show, and I didn't get what I expected out of Star Trek from anything after TNG. The latest movie I hold out as an exception, that was very well done if still not quite the old Star Trek.
Yea, totally. All the abandoned Federation colonies stuff didn't really exist until DS9, the early references to Maquis were strictly Bajoran resistance fighters/terrorists. The Federation defeated the Cardasian plans to annex that one system... I have to: "There are three lights!" And Settlik 3 happened before TNG takes place, and presumably that Colony was either destroyed/lost or was rebuilt and still in the Federation. TNG never says there are Federation citizens living in Cardasian space under imminent threat. That's all DS9 so far as I can tell.