Troika Games was the other one. Obsidian and Troika both do(did) great buggy games that might have ranked among the best RPGs ever if they didn't always seem to be in a financial bind and rush release. The folks who founded them took Interplay's good and bad habits with them.Jamboxdotcom said:
Bethesda and Interplay Continue Fallout MMO Fight
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
See, I had the opposite response to Fallen Earth that it sounds like you did. I have a bad habit of trying out MMOs and only playing them for a short time, but Fallen Earth held my interest longer than most and has been one of the ones I liked the most, I thought it was amazingly well done considering it wasn't a major developing house behind it. The setting was fun, crafting was really well done, factions had tension between them, it even had reasonable voice acting and story to it(for an MMO).Therumancer said:
I think Fallen Earth would be a detriment to them in building their MMO, not just because they are competition(Fallen Earth doesn't have a big enough player base for that) but because they set the bar relatively high for a apocalyptic MMO and I would expect more from either Bethesda or Interplay which may be hard to accomplish. Especially with all this distracting squabbling.
I think, in the end, a judge will have to find that the licensing agreement carried with it the understanding that there were certain parts of the Fallout IP they'd be entitled to use, rather than just the name. Bethesda is trying to spin a take-back on this deal, and I think a judge will recognize the obvious bait/switch tactic employed--even if it wasn't originally the intent.Andy Chalk said:
To me the issue with Fallen Earth was that it had some really good game engines, but that was all there really was to it. It was nice as a scavenging/crafting simulator, but the story seemed weak to me (as much as there was one), and the world just seemed very bland with the quests having very little in the way of personality.Tarlane said:
I tend to be somewhat more lienent with smaller, independant developers, but in this case they wanted an ongoing subscription fee, and if I'm going to pay for something every month I have a fairly high standard, I just felt this game didn't meat that, especially once you got to the point where it was going to take days at a time to craft an item.
See, I hated Fallen Earth. The gameplay was okay, and all, but the animations? The look and feel of my character? Ugh. It didn't feel like I was creating my character. It felt like I was renting bowling shoes--stupid looking, don't fit right, and just an obstacle you've got to overcome to play the game. Problem is, in an MMO, the character is the game.Tarlane said:
Not that I'm trying to support Bethesda here, but I'm slightly against Interplay on this one.
First, they sell off the entire Fallout franchise to Bethesda.
Then they let Bethesda revive the Fallout franchise.
And then ride on that wave so they can churn out an MMO?
Sounds like a desperate plan to get out of bankruptcy.
First, they sell off the entire Fallout franchise to Bethesda.
Then they let Bethesda revive the Fallout franchise.
And then ride on that wave so they can churn out an MMO?
Sounds like a desperate plan to get out of bankruptcy.
InExile, and Troika. Yeah, I thought Taylor left back in 2003 or so... this is bizarre.Jamboxdotcom said:
Nah, this kinda makes sense... IF: Interplay didn't have a lawyer look over the licensing agreement, which is possible, or the one who did wasn't competent in copyright law, which is slightly more likely. So, what ends up is the license lets them use the Fallout name, which they mistake to mean they have full rights to the Fallout license for the project.manythings said:
Now, why Bethesda would license just the name? It's more likely that the contract itself was vague, and that this is a more recent interpretation from Beth trying to kill the game.
I sure hope there is no mmo for fallout. i think mmo's in all should just die out for a few years
Interplay is sneaky by making the MMO before it has the rights. They can say to the judge that they have already invested all this time and money into the game and to lose it would cause them to go under. The judge will be more likely to side with Interplay or force the companies to compromise. It has worked before in a few cases and in law, precedence is everything.
It all depends on the judge. He could also be of the opinion; if you sell a car to someone, it is no longer yours. You can't expect to drive it again whenever you feel like.
In my own opinion, Bethesda's position seems a little weak. After reading the patent office's definitions for trademarks and intellectual property, it seems that the trademark encompasses the Fallout IP. Depending on how you interpret it, a trademark is either a symbol that can be used to describe a product or a symbol that describes a specific product (in this case the Fallout IP). The latter interpretation would imply rights to the IP. Intellectual properties are "creative works or ideas embodied in a form that can be shared or can enable others to recreate, emulate, or manufacture them." I would argue that the IP is "embodied" in the form of the Fallout trademark, so rights to the trademark means rights to the IP.
Don't take this rant to mean I want Interplay to get the rights. I think neither should have them. Bethesda botched up the series and the magic that was Black Isle Studios will never happen again (although Bioware comes close sometimes).
However, Bethesda's success would be the worst case scenario. Imagine, if you will, George Lucas gives someone the rights to the Star Wars trademark to make a movie. Now, according to Bethesda, this only includes the name and logo. It can't use any material from the Star Wars universe. So the makers of the movie would either have to scrap it or make a movie about a runaway freight train full of toxic waste or a guy getting zapped by a beam and winding up in a computer world and because it carries the Star Wars brand, it is canon. That is what would happen to Fallout if Bethesda wins this case.
It all depends on the judge. He could also be of the opinion; if you sell a car to someone, it is no longer yours. You can't expect to drive it again whenever you feel like.
In my own opinion, Bethesda's position seems a little weak. After reading the patent office's definitions for trademarks and intellectual property, it seems that the trademark encompasses the Fallout IP. Depending on how you interpret it, a trademark is either a symbol that can be used to describe a product or a symbol that describes a specific product (in this case the Fallout IP). The latter interpretation would imply rights to the IP. Intellectual properties are "creative works or ideas embodied in a form that can be shared or can enable others to recreate, emulate, or manufacture them." I would argue that the IP is "embodied" in the form of the Fallout trademark, so rights to the trademark means rights to the IP.
Don't take this rant to mean I want Interplay to get the rights. I think neither should have them. Bethesda botched up the series and the magic that was Black Isle Studios will never happen again (although Bioware comes close sometimes).
However, Bethesda's success would be the worst case scenario. Imagine, if you will, George Lucas gives someone the rights to the Star Wars trademark to make a movie. Now, according to Bethesda, this only includes the name and logo. It can't use any material from the Star Wars universe. So the makers of the movie would either have to scrap it or make a movie about a runaway freight train full of toxic waste or a guy getting zapped by a beam and winding up in a computer world and because it carries the Star Wars brand, it is canon. That is what would happen to Fallout if Bethesda wins this case.
This. Interplay bottomed themselves out with amazingly stupid move after amazingly stupid move. They sold the franchise with the caveat to be able to make a Fallout MMO, which they had to swear up and down that they'd be hard at work on immediately, but by all accounts didn't even BEGIN the damn thing till Fallout 3 hit off. Honestly, Interplay lost my respect ages ago... the sooner they go away, the better.NLS said:
Let them make the damn game, Bethesda. It's not like you guys haven't wasted the Fallout universe's potential enough already.
Douchebags.
Douchebags.
So true. Gamebryo is a retarded, outdated and outmoded steaming shitbox of an engine. Ask anyone who has developed/attempted to develop with it.Cuy said:
Pretty much all of the comments so far are right; Bethesda, pull your head in, your 'interpretation' of the Fallout universe lacks any of the feel of the originals - even though Fallout Tactics was non-canon, it put across a much more faithful adaptation.
And don't give me that "But we made it First Person, so it was going to feel different" bullshit, everyone knows that's a cheap cop-out. Black Isle made it gel into an X-Com game, which is more than a fucking perspective change.
I've probably phrased this rant badly, but it is only a rant from an old-school fallout fanboy.
So their allowed to make a game about fallout...without:
-Supermutiants or any previously explored mutation or any corelation with FEV Virus or Ghouls.
-Squirrel on a motha-flipin stick.
-Nuka Cola or other associated products.
-The Enclave and the Brotherhood of steel.
-that sweet Fatman, the laser pistol, the laser rifle and the gatling laser, and any other corelateing firearm or weapon not of public domain purely for the fact that they exsist.
-The bloody Setting.
-Vaults and other relateing personel.
-Mirelurks, Radscorpions, Gecko's, and giant ants that...breath...fire....ok not a huge loss on that one.
-Mr. handy and other asorted Robotic Skynet awesomeness.
-Pip boy's
-The Holy Hand Grenade.
so all were left with is...
Generic weapons, humans OTHER humans and...err...dogs? i guess.
What are they gonna take the sense of humor too?
-Supermutiants or any previously explored mutation or any corelation with FEV Virus or Ghouls.
-Squirrel on a motha-flipin stick.
-Nuka Cola or other associated products.
-The Enclave and the Brotherhood of steel.
-that sweet Fatman, the laser pistol, the laser rifle and the gatling laser, and any other corelateing firearm or weapon not of public domain purely for the fact that they exsist.
-The bloody Setting.
-Vaults and other relateing personel.
-Mirelurks, Radscorpions, Gecko's, and giant ants that...breath...fire....ok not a huge loss on that one.
-Mr. handy and other asorted Robotic Skynet awesomeness.
-Pip boy's
-The Holy Hand Grenade.
so all were left with is...
Generic weapons, humans OTHER humans and...err...dogs? i guess.
What are they gonna take the sense of humor too?
The disagreement between Interplay and Bethesda is a pretty classic example of what happens when one party (Interplay) sells off an asset whose value becomes immensely greater in the hands of the purchaser (Bethesda), and then both parties try to wrangle over what elements of the original agreement meant. These sorts of legal wrangles happen between Fortune 500 companies, so it's not always a matter of incompetence, just the lawyers on both sides grasping at the best straws they can.
I'm getting a little irritated over this whole "Bethesda ruined the series" mindset that is constantly put out by the likes of NMA and other elitists. I'll be the first to admit that Fallout 3 and New Vegas, while fun games, are nowhere near as good as Fallout 1 and 2. That being said, Fallout 1 and 2 was the limit of Interplay's ability to do anything worthwhile with the franchise. Have any of you seen the design docs and screenshots of Van Buren? Some of the main and side quests are a thousand times zanier than Mothership Zeta.
Also, we can NEVER forget that Interplay developed and produced Fallout: BoS for home consoles. Interplay was hard at work making Fallout a giant joke years before Bethesda came into the picture.
Also, we can NEVER forget that Interplay developed and produced Fallout: BoS for home consoles. Interplay was hard at work making Fallout a giant joke years before Bethesda came into the picture.