Bethesda Hates Mages: 12 Reasons Magic in Skyrim Sucks
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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Underpowered? Well, the damage are not that great at High Level but with the right enchantement, my pure destruction mage, spend next to nothing on magicka with a regeneration rate so high you never run out of spell. So yeah, you won't one shot anything like an archer can, but you don't have any difficulty destroying everything with a lightning spell. Faster than an arrow, stunning and impairing the magicka of the opponent.
Our dear Alduin did not last long when he was eating a never-ending Lightning Storm.
Our dear Alduin did not last long when he was eating a never-ending Lightning Storm.
Yeesh so many people trying to show off their nerd cred in this thread.
Why do so many people just say, "Mods fix this." That's not the point of the thread, and mods should never be used as an excuse for something being bad in a game. If you have to install something that was not made by the developer in order to fix a game then that means there is something wrong with the game. Pointing out that there are mods to fix magic does not change the fact that Bethesda does not know how to balance magic.
I've played Skyrim more then I've played any other TES game, and I have to agree with Shamus on this. Magic is full of problems. I've never been a big fan of Resource dependent magic in games because of games like Skyrim. Either the resource becomes a huge blow to making the magic system fun, or it can eventually be ignored entirely via buffs/perks/enchantments/etc. The one thing that I do like about magic in Skyrim however is that if you play a Mage type it forces you to be more strategic in how you deal with enemies. When playing a melee only character it's basically a game of slash, slash, slash, block, slash, slash, slash. It gets repetitive and somewhat boring. As a Mage I tend to approach combat from several different angles trying to find some way to make up for the inherent weakness in the spells. All in all I think TES games need a bit of an overhaul in all departments of combat.
Why do so many people just say, "Mods fix this." That's not the point of the thread, and mods should never be used as an excuse for something being bad in a game. If you have to install something that was not made by the developer in order to fix a game then that means there is something wrong with the game. Pointing out that there are mods to fix magic does not change the fact that Bethesda does not know how to balance magic.
I've played Skyrim more then I've played any other TES game, and I have to agree with Shamus on this. Magic is full of problems. I've never been a big fan of Resource dependent magic in games because of games like Skyrim. Either the resource becomes a huge blow to making the magic system fun, or it can eventually be ignored entirely via buffs/perks/enchantments/etc. The one thing that I do like about magic in Skyrim however is that if you play a Mage type it forces you to be more strategic in how you deal with enemies. When playing a melee only character it's basically a game of slash, slash, slash, block, slash, slash, slash. It gets repetitive and somewhat boring. As a Mage I tend to approach combat from several different angles trying to find some way to make up for the inherent weakness in the spells. All in all I think TES games need a bit of an overhaul in all departments of combat.
As someone who has just started his first magic using class, I'm finding all of the above. I have to keep my onehanded relatively leveled and my archery very powerful to supplement the flames coming out of my hands? Something is wrong with that.
I guess next time I'll start a rogue class.
I guess next time I'll start a rogue class.
Four pages long, did not read through all of it, so I have to ask:
Did anyone else mention the sheer joy of Runes yet?
Magic in Skyrim has its flaws, to be sure, but nothing makes me happier than placing a dual-cast Fire Rune in a hallway, tossing some magelight next to it, and waiting for the inevitable explosion.
"What was that?" ... *BOOM!*
*watches plates and pots come tumbling out of the room, trailing fire*
Did anyone else mention the sheer joy of Runes yet?
Magic in Skyrim has its flaws, to be sure, but nothing makes me happier than placing a dual-cast Fire Rune in a hallway, tossing some magelight next to it, and waiting for the inevitable explosion.
"What was that?" ... *BOOM!*
*watches plates and pots come tumbling out of the room, trailing fire*
Yeah... I mean when my frost/storm mage gets rushed by 5 bandits and one single cast of ice storm kills them all, or when I snipe them with thunderbolt from 50m, or kill a dragon with 5 thunderbolts, or duel a mage and turn invincible with greater ward and hit them until they run out of mana and disintegrate... I'm not feeling underpowered.
In fact my mage is facerolling everything.
Some of the undead take 2-3 casts from lightning, they resist frost. But they never reach me.
In fact my mage is facerolling everything.
Some of the undead take 2-3 casts from lightning, they resist frost. But they never reach me.
Playing as a mage in Skyrim (first time I really tried to play one in Elder Scrolls) I found that conjuring and illusion mixed with enchantment to lower mana consumption was the best way to get any where without being completely murdered, though hiding round a corner while summon creatures do all the fun combat gets old. Even then you have to power level to get the top tier perks which make those skills go from underpowered to well overpowered.
Like most things in Skyrim now, I can only play a mage with mods.
Like most things in Skyrim now, I can only play a mage with mods.
It works fine, people here saying otherwise just don't have enough faith in their character builds or are spreading their skill points too widely. I've got a stealth character that specializes in Bow (Legendary), Light Armor (Legendary), Sneak, and 2-Handed (Legendary). Even with the handicaps associated with the Legendary process he's kicking all kinds of ass.Alleged_Alec said:
Just make sure you whittle your opponents down with your bow weapon (invest in Deadly Aim and Power Shot at later levels to make your long-distance attacks more effective), and you'll be totally capable of rushing in and taking out the stragglers in close combat. Oh yeah, get a good set of enchanted light armor -- that will raise your survivability odds significantly.
Agreed. I think the same thing every time I forget why I hate mage characters and try one again. The fact that magic requires mana and swinging a sword requires nothing means that magic should, logically, be WAY more powerful than swinging said sword. Instead, it's crap from the get-go and only gets worse. I don't know how much damage the lightning storm spell does, but I can't imagine it's DPS is any better than my orc character's berserker rage fueled >800 per swing. Never understood why it didn't scale with level.
I think I know which part you're talking about; fortunately, I had some really strong invisibility spells and just ran through the place without fighting anything. It feels like a cheat, but what can you do? Kind of like in Skyrim when a big bad would get caught on some landscape/furniture giving me free shots; it breaks immersion, but serves as a kind of unintentional balancing tool.Darth Sea Bass said:
In Morrowind, a simple detour to another town earlier than the quest log wants you to results in the ability to make spells, which results in being able to make spells that buff your stats. Permanently. As in, I cast this spell every 3 seconds, and in an hour my fireball has the power to kill the final boss. Also, in Oblivion if you can't get through the whole game with only fireball and spark, you don't know how to backpedal. Skyrim takes more effort, sure, but if anything it's Oblivion Lite in most of its mechanics.
You sir have discovered the true way to play Elder Scrolls games. The true game is not about the main quest line, nor is it about the sidequests, the stories, leveling your character, or any of that. It is to see how many mods you can pile on and make work together at once, preferably while just barely maintaining a vague resemblence to the original game. I learned this long ago with Daggerfall, as I spent many more hours trying out mods and other changes than I did actually playing the game. That was the game where I first learned how to use a hex editor, and the pattern has held with every TES game since. As the games have evolved and become more complicated, so to have the mods and combinations of mods. TES games are not meant to be beaten or completed, they are meant to be shaped into a magnificent mountain of mods! Only then can their true grandeur be appreciated.teebeeohh said:
One of these days I'll have to get around to seeing how much damage I can do to Arena!
But I like the Master mage robes... They make your character look like a scholarly professor who's knowledge also allows him to light people on fire. I love how casual they look compared to how over the top everything else is
My one and only character on Skyrim was a full blown mage but that wasn't my intent from the beginning. In both Morrowind and Oblivion I started as light armor, short sword fighters and slowly became a Jack of all trades as I leveled and got bored with other skills. By the time I was basically invincible, I would level up magic skills but at that point I didn't have a lot of magicka so I had to use a bug to increase it. I expected the same thing to happen in Skyrim so I only raised my magic at first and that became my main strength.
Honestly, I liked playing as a mage character but I had to turn the difficulty down at first. I was surprised when a friend of mine wasn't even level 30 and was playing on legendary. I had no idea how much easier and broken the other classes were. I just assumed the game was harder in general. It didn't really matter because I had plenty of time to level up all the skills I wanted. Plus the summons in Skyrim are way better. Magic doesn't suck that much when you can call 2 dremoras to fight with you. I also loved the Master magic quests to get the best spells.
I still liked it way more than Oblivion and Morroind's magic systems which were broken and boring due to the simple spell making mechanics. All spells were just a variation of "X damage for X seconds to X area" and spells were way too easy to get which made them unexciting. In the end, the stuff you said is still true and system definitely needs the tweaking provided by mods
My one and only character on Skyrim was a full blown mage but that wasn't my intent from the beginning. In both Morrowind and Oblivion I started as light armor, short sword fighters and slowly became a Jack of all trades as I leveled and got bored with other skills. By the time I was basically invincible, I would level up magic skills but at that point I didn't have a lot of magicka so I had to use a bug to increase it. I expected the same thing to happen in Skyrim so I only raised my magic at first and that became my main strength.
Honestly, I liked playing as a mage character but I had to turn the difficulty down at first. I was surprised when a friend of mine wasn't even level 30 and was playing on legendary. I had no idea how much easier and broken the other classes were. I just assumed the game was harder in general. It didn't really matter because I had plenty of time to level up all the skills I wanted. Plus the summons in Skyrim are way better. Magic doesn't suck that much when you can call 2 dremoras to fight with you. I also loved the Master magic quests to get the best spells.
I still liked it way more than Oblivion and Morroind's magic systems which were broken and boring due to the simple spell making mechanics. All spells were just a variation of "X damage for X seconds to X area" and spells were way too easy to get which made them unexciting. In the end, the stuff you said is still true and system definitely needs the tweaking provided by mods
In general, the combat in Skyrim (and in fact in all TES games, in my experience), is pretty poor, be it melee, archery or magic, at least in my opinion.
Melee feels VERY unsatisfying. All the combat with swords, axes or hammers feels very "floaty", like I'm not actually hitting the enemies.
Archery is incredibly overpowered, specially when combined with stealth. A million jokes have been made of an enemy with seven arrows stuck in his face wondering if that noise he just heard is a rat or just a breeze of air.
Magic is just boring. You don't have the variety of the older games, and every spell just feels the same (in their respective groups), or is almost completely useless, even high level ones. I mean, as a Conjuration mage, how many times have you used "Bound Bow"?
Anyway, TES games aren't to be played for the combat. There are many better games in that regard.
Melee feels VERY unsatisfying. All the combat with swords, axes or hammers feels very "floaty", like I'm not actually hitting the enemies.
Archery is incredibly overpowered, specially when combined with stealth. A million jokes have been made of an enemy with seven arrows stuck in his face wondering if that noise he just heard is a rat or just a breeze of air.
Magic is just boring. You don't have the variety of the older games, and every spell just feels the same (in their respective groups), or is almost completely useless, even high level ones. I mean, as a Conjuration mage, how many times have you used "Bound Bow"?
Anyway, TES games aren't to be played for the combat. There are many better games in that regard.
It's because warriors and rogues can attack indefinitely, but mages get stuck in situations where they run out of mana and can't do anything but run around and get beat on.
Mana is a dumb concept. As is endurance.
You are already inhumanly capable of swining heavy objects. In real life, you couldn't do that more than 20 times or so in a given day without injuring your muscles...
Mana is a dumb concept. As is endurance.
You are already inhumanly capable of swining heavy objects. In real life, you couldn't do that more than 20 times or so in a given day without injuring your muscles...
Yes, you're entering melee combat. Tits don't up when you've entered melee combat, you've entered melee combat because tits have gone up. The only way to bring them back down is to exit melee combat and hide ASAP. If you can't sneak past a threat, dispatch it with a bow from a distant shadowed corner.Alleged_Alec said:
If the modders can make the magic both powerful and balanced, it means that Bethesda is very lazy to make their own game balance and fun. Because in their brain, Skyrim is the land where every people only like to use swords and steels to kill bandits and dragons. Sneaking and marksmanship is too overpowered while magic is too slow and unreliable most of the time, and Bethesda Game Studio are going one sided with their choices of gameplay lately. Hoping that Todd Howard realized these flaws.
This is why you say screw robes and run around in fully enchanted daedric armor. You can take a lot of hits and you can enchant it to get yourself free destruction spells. Is this abusing the system? Yes. Does it make playing a mage a lot more fun? Yes. Also, mages are actually quite overpowered due to one perk: Impact. Stun lock your enemies forever. But ya, even still, without mods, magic in Skyrim does get old.
Although, you probably know everything I just said since you've actually played the game about a hundred hours more than me.
Although, you probably know everything I just said since you've actually played the game about a hundred hours more than me.