EDIT: This is an old thread. It has been necroed. Please ignore it and let it die. Do not respond to this thread. Thank you.
Why do people complain about Big Boobs in games? I seriously want to know. I have heard several answers, but the ones I have heard don't make sense. I will list the ones I have heard below, and my responses to them. If you have an opinion that I don't list, please, list it below.
1. Complaint: It is offensive to women to focus on gender specific traits rather than gender neutral ones.
Response: Being attracted to gender specific traits is what defines monosexuality, both heterosexuality and homosexuality. The idea that being attracted to gender specific traits is morally wrong implies that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally wrong. Moreover, attraction to gender specific traits, and gender neutral ones, are not mutually exclusive of each other. More simply put, you can be attracted to both female specific traits and intelligence. This is actually what most men want, since most men have a sexuality based on reproduction, and we don't want our offspring to be stupid.
2. Complaint: It isn't normal for women to have such big boobs. It is genetically abnormal!
Response: All above average traits, including above average intelligence, are genetically abnormal. If one were to accept that being attracted to abnormal traits is wrong, then being attracted to women who are more intelligent than average would be wrong. Moreover, because intelligence is more important than attractiveness, it seems somewhat illogical to complain- what seems to worse to you, that there is a an area of desirability/human attractiveness that actually matters, where only a small percentage are born with the most desired traits (highest intellect), or that there is an area of desirability/human attractiveness that doesn't really matter where only a small percentage have the desired traits(appearance)?
More simply put, shouldn't the inherent genetic elitism of a trait that actually matters bother you more? And yet, we accept the inherent genetic elitism of intelligence as a simple fact...while crying out against the far less important genetic elitism of appearance, treating it as totally malleable...despite the fact that beauty has always been elite.
3. Complaint: Women are being treated differently from men!
Response: The exact opposite is true. Men and women are both held to a standard of physical attractiveness far above average in videogames and comic books. Men have their physical gender specific traits magnified, women have their physical gender specific traits magnified. Both are super beautiful/masculine/feminine. Both are being treated exactly the same. The average woman may not have giant boobs, but the average man doesn't look like the Incredible Hulk, Superman, Thor, Ryu/Ken, Marcus Fenix, or many other male videogame characters.
4. Complaint: I don't have a problem with Big Boobs, but I do have a problem with the sheer percentage of them!
Response: Adult Female characters that have larger than average boobs are actually a fairly small minority. Here is an example: In Extra Credits, they keep using pictures of Ivy. Ivy is part of a large roster of female characters. Most of these characters have small or average breasts.
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Seong_Mi-na
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Tira
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Xianghua
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Talim
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Amy
EDIT: I seem to recall Tira being smaller in the past. Apparently she is larger than average currently.
Keep in mind, this is not all of the female characters, This is not even half. I am too lazy to go hunting through the wiki for all of them. And of course in addition to Ivy there was also Taki, but woman with big breasts were still the minority. So the Extra Credit group complained about a game in which women with big boobs...were the minority. Tifa Lockheart, in FF7, was pretty much the only female character with large breasts. Consistently, within videogames, the big breasted characters are a small minority.
5. Complaint: I don't like being compared to a standard I can't live up too!
Response: If the female character is more powerful and intelligent than average, then she is inherently creating a standard of sexiness that the average woman can't live up too, simply because intelligence and power are a part of sexiness. A woman who is more intelligent than average is sexy because I want my offspring to be smart. A woman who has superhuman powers- like super healing powers or invulnerability- is sexy because I want my offspring to have favorable traits. And, while the size of the gender specific traits a monosexual desires varies from individual to individual of course, I personally find big boobs/hourglass figures are sexy.
6. Complaint: I believe big boobs are a crutch game designers use to support bad games!
Response: Excellent writing and character development are also crutches game developers use to support bad gameplay. Text adventure games are a pretty good example. That doesn't justify hating excellent writing, character development, and overall narrative. If one argues that aspects of game design which are used as crutches should be discontinued in general, we would have to discontinue many important, even necessary aspects of game design. The problem with saying that big boobs are used as a crutch to support an overall bad game is that this is true of pretty much every concievable aspect of game design as well.
Can anyone else list any complaints they have?
EDIT: Here are some excellent points others have brought up:
7. Complaint: "Because idealised men are designed to appeal to men, whereas idealised women are also designed to appeal to men, which is not fair."
Response: If there is a lack of fanservice to women, that is a serious problem. It doesn't mean that fanservice for men is morally wrong, which is why I didn't understand the objections to big breasts in games, but it is still a big issue that game designer don't seem to be consistently interested in providing fan service for both genders. Also, female protagonist design should also primarily be designed to create characters that woman want to play as. I am not trying to argue that most or half of female video game characters should have larger than average breasts, just as not all male characters have huge muscles, not all female characters need huge boobs.
8. Complaint: "because it is not realistic for a very athlethetic woman to have them, it breaks immersion."
Response: Another good point I have no real solution for, other than to say that for games where immersion matters, it should be reserved for characters who aren't extremely athlethic, assuming the game developer wants to do it at all.
9. Complaint: "A man can exercise to gain more muscle if he wants to. A woman cannot gain larger breasts without surgery and stuffing some plastic in her chest."
Response: I suppose I could point out that you can build up how big your breasts look by doing pectoral exercises, but as for increasing the actual size of the breasts themselves, this is true to my knowledge. Of course there are many other aspects of attractiveness that are purely genetic, but I am willing to agree that is not totally equitable. I have no real solution to offer for that.
Why do people complain about Big Boobs in games? I seriously want to know. I have heard several answers, but the ones I have heard don't make sense. I will list the ones I have heard below, and my responses to them. If you have an opinion that I don't list, please, list it below.
1. Complaint: It is offensive to women to focus on gender specific traits rather than gender neutral ones.
Response: Being attracted to gender specific traits is what defines monosexuality, both heterosexuality and homosexuality. The idea that being attracted to gender specific traits is morally wrong implies that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally wrong. Moreover, attraction to gender specific traits, and gender neutral ones, are not mutually exclusive of each other. More simply put, you can be attracted to both female specific traits and intelligence. This is actually what most men want, since most men have a sexuality based on reproduction, and we don't want our offspring to be stupid.
2. Complaint: It isn't normal for women to have such big boobs. It is genetically abnormal!
Response: All above average traits, including above average intelligence, are genetically abnormal. If one were to accept that being attracted to abnormal traits is wrong, then being attracted to women who are more intelligent than average would be wrong. Moreover, because intelligence is more important than attractiveness, it seems somewhat illogical to complain- what seems to worse to you, that there is a an area of desirability/human attractiveness that actually matters, where only a small percentage are born with the most desired traits (highest intellect), or that there is an area of desirability/human attractiveness that doesn't really matter where only a small percentage have the desired traits(appearance)?
More simply put, shouldn't the inherent genetic elitism of a trait that actually matters bother you more? And yet, we accept the inherent genetic elitism of intelligence as a simple fact...while crying out against the far less important genetic elitism of appearance, treating it as totally malleable...despite the fact that beauty has always been elite.
3. Complaint: Women are being treated differently from men!
Response: The exact opposite is true. Men and women are both held to a standard of physical attractiveness far above average in videogames and comic books. Men have their physical gender specific traits magnified, women have their physical gender specific traits magnified. Both are super beautiful/masculine/feminine. Both are being treated exactly the same. The average woman may not have giant boobs, but the average man doesn't look like the Incredible Hulk, Superman, Thor, Ryu/Ken, Marcus Fenix, or many other male videogame characters.
4. Complaint: I don't have a problem with Big Boobs, but I do have a problem with the sheer percentage of them!
Response: Adult Female characters that have larger than average boobs are actually a fairly small minority. Here is an example: In Extra Credits, they keep using pictures of Ivy. Ivy is part of a large roster of female characters. Most of these characters have small or average breasts.
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Seong_Mi-na
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Tira
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Xianghua
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Talim
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Amy
EDIT: I seem to recall Tira being smaller in the past. Apparently she is larger than average currently.
Keep in mind, this is not all of the female characters, This is not even half. I am too lazy to go hunting through the wiki for all of them. And of course in addition to Ivy there was also Taki, but woman with big breasts were still the minority. So the Extra Credit group complained about a game in which women with big boobs...were the minority. Tifa Lockheart, in FF7, was pretty much the only female character with large breasts. Consistently, within videogames, the big breasted characters are a small minority.
5. Complaint: I don't like being compared to a standard I can't live up too!
Response: If the female character is more powerful and intelligent than average, then she is inherently creating a standard of sexiness that the average woman can't live up too, simply because intelligence and power are a part of sexiness. A woman who is more intelligent than average is sexy because I want my offspring to be smart. A woman who has superhuman powers- like super healing powers or invulnerability- is sexy because I want my offspring to have favorable traits. And, while the size of the gender specific traits a monosexual desires varies from individual to individual of course, I personally find big boobs/hourglass figures are sexy.
6. Complaint: I believe big boobs are a crutch game designers use to support bad games!
Response: Excellent writing and character development are also crutches game developers use to support bad gameplay. Text adventure games are a pretty good example. That doesn't justify hating excellent writing, character development, and overall narrative. If one argues that aspects of game design which are used as crutches should be discontinued in general, we would have to discontinue many important, even necessary aspects of game design. The problem with saying that big boobs are used as a crutch to support an overall bad game is that this is true of pretty much every concievable aspect of game design as well.
Can anyone else list any complaints they have?
EDIT: Here are some excellent points others have brought up:
7. Complaint: "Because idealised men are designed to appeal to men, whereas idealised women are also designed to appeal to men, which is not fair."
Response: If there is a lack of fanservice to women, that is a serious problem. It doesn't mean that fanservice for men is morally wrong, which is why I didn't understand the objections to big breasts in games, but it is still a big issue that game designer don't seem to be consistently interested in providing fan service for both genders. Also, female protagonist design should also primarily be designed to create characters that woman want to play as. I am not trying to argue that most or half of female video game characters should have larger than average breasts, just as not all male characters have huge muscles, not all female characters need huge boobs.
8. Complaint: "because it is not realistic for a very athlethetic woman to have them, it breaks immersion."
Response: Another good point I have no real solution for, other than to say that for games where immersion matters, it should be reserved for characters who aren't extremely athlethic, assuming the game developer wants to do it at all.
9. Complaint: "A man can exercise to gain more muscle if he wants to. A woman cannot gain larger breasts without surgery and stuffing some plastic in her chest."
Response: I suppose I could point out that you can build up how big your breasts look by doing pectoral exercises, but as for increasing the actual size of the breasts themselves, this is true to my knowledge. Of course there are many other aspects of attractiveness that are purely genetic, but I am willing to agree that is not totally equitable. I have no real solution to offer for that.
