Big Boobs- why do people complain?

[Dana22]

Because I personally like small boobs :d

 

[Michael Logan]

Im with Dana22 on this one, big boobs are generally on fat girls or they are fake, either way small is better.

 

[Axelhander]

Complaint #6 is valid. Your rebuttal is not.

A game that features one of the crutches you mention to support thoughtless game design IS A BAD GAME. Just as bad as a game where "tits" is the main draw, and to hell with that gameplay nonsense.

Similarly, in a story-heavy game, or in a film, or a TV series, or whatever, using big boobs as a lure begs the question: if the story and/or character development is as good as this game's fans say it is (see: NIS, Aksys, and other devs/publishers of that vein), why the heavy focus on junior high grade sex appeal?

Here's something that uses sexuality very well: the film Black Swan.

Here's something else, a game this time: certain parts of Persona 4, namely the look into Yukiko and Kanji's psyches.

My rebuttal is valid. If one argues that aspects of game design which are used as crutches should be discontinued in general, we would have to discontinue many important, even necessary aspects of game design. The problem with saying that big boobs are used as a crutch to support an overall bad game is that this is true of pretty much every concievable aspect of game design as well.

You're either being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse or you're failing to understand the point. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

You fabricated a straw man. I didn't say "let's discontinue strong writing and character development." I said "a game that relies on those things to cover up weak gameplay is a bad game." A straw man is a logical fallacy. A logical fallacy invalidates an argument. Your argument is not valid.

You're also falsely equating a reliance on shallow and childish sexuality with a reliance on strongly crafted narrative. The latter, at the very least, requires real thought, real effort, which already makes it wildly different than the former.

Except I am not equating. You are arguing that equity is necessary to compare the two. It's not. I am comparing an aspect of game design that is not important to one that is. Contrary to your assertions, that is a valid comparison. Two things do not need to be equitable to be compared, nor is equity implied when you compare two things. An example: I could compare a newspaper which watchdogs the government for corruption to a pornography magazine, and say that while the pornography magazine is far less important, they should both be protected by freedom of speech. Equity is not implied in this scenario, and is in fact outright stated to not exist, as the news outlet which watchdogs the government is explicitly stated to be more important, yet the comparison is still ultimately valid due to the nature of the argument.

Except I never said equity is necessary for comparison. That would be stupid. I used the word "equating" as a synonym for "comparing," which works in this context; to claim otherwise is to grasp at straws.

Complaint #6 remains invalid, because it essentially follows this goofy train of thought:
1. Big tits to draw attention away from bad game design.
2. Big tits aren't the only things used to draw attention away from bad game design.
3. Therefore, big tits are okay.

 

[beema]

First let me say I absolutely love big boobs. When I look at porn, it is pretty much exclusively of the big boob variety. I have no idea why, but they obsess me.

However, those are real women in a very specific portion of society.

When EVERY female character in a game has gigantic boobs, on the other hand, it feels stupid. I suppose this is because most people feel games should represent some sort of cross-section of all humans. The characters aren't supposed to be porn stars, they are supposed to (often times) be average joes. When you walk down the street, the majority of women do not have giant honkers flopping around (and if they do, please tell me where that street is).

Secondly, it reflects poorly on us as gamers and the game industry as a whole. People already have this concept of us that we are all desperately pathetic horny nerds who only care about hyper-sexualized unrealistic portrayals of women. Why continue to further that stereotype by actually making it appear true to the eyes of outsiders. When someone who doesn't play games looks at them, they see a few flashy shots. They don't get to experience the story, the gameplay mechanics, or any of the other tons of components that make up a game experience. All they see is a ridiculous woman running around with her boobs jiggling like jello.

So I think those are my twofold reasons for why giant boobs, all the time, in games feels stupid and annoying and sometimes angering. It makes us look bad, and it often draws me out of any immersing realistic experience the game is trying to portray.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Why do people complain about Big Boobs in games? I seriously want to know. I have heard several answers, but the ones I have heard don't make sense. I will list the ones I have heard below, and my responses to them. If you have an opinion that I don't list, please, list it below.
6. Complaint: I believe big boobs are a crutch game designers use to support bad games!

Response: Excellent writing and character development are also crutches game developers use to support bad gameplay. Text adventure games are a pretty good example. That doesn't justify hating excellent writing, character development, and overall narrative.

7. Complaint: "Because idealised men are designed to appeal to men, whereas idealised women are also designed to appeal to men, which is not fair."

Response: If there is a lack of fanservice to women, that is a serious problem. It doesn't mean that fanservice for men is morally wrong, which is why I didn't understand the objections to big breasts in games, but it is still a big issue that game designer don't seem to be consistently interested in providing fan service for both genders. Also, female protagonist design should also primarily be designed to create characters that woman want to play as. I am not trying to argue that most or half of female video game characters should have larger than average breasts, just as not all male characters have huge muscles, not all female characters need huge boobs.

8. Complaint: "because it is not realistic for a very athlethetic woman to have them, it breaks immersion."

Response: Another good point I have no real solution for, other than to say that for games where immersion matters, it should be reserved for characters who aren't extremely athlethic, assuming the game developer wants to do it at all.

6. Your argument is fallacious by comparing big boobs to character development. Writing is not a crutch for a game; it is development for a game. If you honestly think that in the year 2011 good gameplay makes up for shitty writing and empty characters, then I have no reason to listen to anything you have to say. And if you honestly think that big boobs contribute to a videogame, then you are defending a fetish and nothing more.

7. Big boobs to me makes the game feel immature and childish. To me having big boobs in a game is condescending to gamers and feeds into a negative stereotype.

8. Big boobs =/= nice boobs. and girls who weigh 120lbs rarely have DDs.

I never said character development = breast size. I never said the two were equally important. Moreover, I never implied that either. I also didn't say that gameplay makes up for bad writing/narrative. I said some games, particularly text adventure games, try to comphensate for bad gameplay with superb writing. My point was that something that is used to comphensate for a weak point of a game is not inherently bad, simply because some designers use it as a crutch.

I am talking about modern games. And crutches are bad.

 

[LadyMint]

I try to take everything on a case by case basis, and in most cases where I see big-breasted women in video games, it just comes off as silly to me. Depending on the game, that could be their intent and kudos for them for that. But like others have said, if I'm supposed to take a character seriously, either as a focus for drama or badassery, the jiggle physics take away from that for me.

Then there's the realism factor, which again depends on the game. One thing in the "realism" category that's always bothered me was how video game vixens' breasts bounced along like they had a bra shortage, but when they were knocked to the ground, the boobs retained their perfectly spherical shape. They don't smoosh into the body when a video game character's on her back, or angle when they roll onto their side. Having my own pair of breasts, I know they have a noticeable habit of moving around and changing shape depending on how you're laying/sitting/standing. But in video games, gravity only seems to apply to a woman's chest when it comes to titillation, not being realistic about how the breast moves in relation to your actions.

 

[RelexCryo]

Complaint #6 is valid. Your rebuttal is not.

A game that features one of the crutches you mention to support thoughtless game design IS A BAD GAME. Just as bad as a game where "tits" is the main draw, and to hell with that gameplay nonsense.

Similarly, in a story-heavy game, or in a film, or a TV series, or whatever, using big boobs as a lure begs the question: if the story and/or character development is as good as this game's fans say it is (see: NIS, Aksys, and other devs/publishers of that vein), why the heavy focus on junior high grade sex appeal?

Here's something that uses sexuality very well: the film Black Swan.

Here's something else, a game this time: certain parts of Persona 4, namely the look into Yukiko and Kanji's psyches.

My rebuttal is valid. If one argues that aspects of game design which are used as crutches should be discontinued in general, we would have to discontinue many important, even necessary aspects of game design. The problem with saying that big boobs are used as a crutch to support an overall bad game is that this is true of pretty much every concievable aspect of game design as well.

You're either being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse or you're failing to understand the point. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

You fabricated a straw man. I didn't say "let's discontinue strong writing and character development." I said "a game that relies on those things to cover up weak gameplay is a bad game." A straw man is a logical fallacy. A logical fallacy invalidates an argument. Your argument is not valid.

You're also falsely equating a reliance on shallow and childish sexuality with a reliance on strongly crafted narrative. The latter, at the very least, requires real thought, real effort, which already makes it wildly different than the former.

Except I am not equating. You are arguing that equity is necessary to compare the two. It's not. I am comparing an aspect of game design that is not important to one that is. Contrary to your assertions, that is a valid comparison. Two things do not need to be equitable to be compared, nor is equity implied when you compare two things. An example: I could compare a newspaper which watchdogs the government for corruption to a pornography magazine, and say that while the pornography magazine is far less important, they should both be protected by freedom of speech. Equity is not implied in this scenario, and is in fact outright stated to not exist, as the news outlet which watchdogs the government is explicitly stated to be more important, yet the comparison is still ultimately valid due to the nature of the argument.

Except I never said equity is necessary for comparison. That would be stupid. I used the word "equating" as a synonym for "comparing," which works in this context; to claim otherwise is to grasp at straws.

Complaint #6 remains invalid, because it essentially follows this goofy train of thought:
1. Big tits to draw attention away from bad game design.
2. Big tits aren't the only things used to draw attention away from bad game design.
3. Therefore, big tits are okay.

Actually, my point on number 3 is "Therefore, big boobs are not necessarily bad." My argument refutes the idea that things which are used to draw attention away from bad game design are inherently bad, I did not argue that big boobs are universally a good idea, and I even outright stated that putting big boobs on a female character is often a bad idea.

 

[4173]

I think the most interesting question is how effective big boobs are/aren't. Totally impossible, but it would be great if a company released two games that were the same except for the size of breasts in the game. And they would have on the cover either "Big Boob Version" and "Average Boob Version." Then we check sales and demographics.

For me personally, I find there's a huge difference between characters sexualized unrealistically and those sexualized realistically. I don't think there's anything wrong with sometimes using realistically sexualized characters as a selling point for a game.

 

[RelexCryo]

Why do people complain about Big Boobs in games? I seriously want to know. I have heard several answers, but the ones I have heard don't make sense. I will list the ones I have heard below, and my responses to them. If you have an opinion that I don't list, please, list it below.
6. Complaint: I believe big boobs are a crutch game designers use to support bad games!

Response: Excellent writing and character development are also crutches game developers use to support bad gameplay. Text adventure games are a pretty good example. That doesn't justify hating excellent writing, character development, and overall narrative.

7. Complaint: "Because idealised men are designed to appeal to men, whereas idealised women are also designed to appeal to men, which is not fair."

Response: If there is a lack of fanservice to women, that is a serious problem. It doesn't mean that fanservice for men is morally wrong, which is why I didn't understand the objections to big breasts in games, but it is still a big issue that game designer don't seem to be consistently interested in providing fan service for both genders. Also, female protagonist design should also primarily be designed to create characters that woman want to play as. I am not trying to argue that most or half of female video game characters should have larger than average breasts, just as not all male characters have huge muscles, not all female characters need huge boobs.

8. Complaint: "because it is not realistic for a very athlethetic woman to have them, it breaks immersion."

Response: Another good point I have no real solution for, other than to say that for games where immersion matters, it should be reserved for characters who aren't extremely athlethic, assuming the game developer wants to do it at all.

6. Your argument is fallacious by comparing big boobs to character development. Writing is not a crutch for a game; it is development for a game. If you honestly think that in the year 2011 good gameplay makes up for shitty writing and empty characters, then I have no reason to listen to anything you have to say. And if you honestly think that big boobs contribute to a videogame, then you are defending a fetish and nothing more.

7. Big boobs to me makes the game feel immature and childish. To me having big boobs in a game is condescending to gamers and feeds into a negative stereotype.

8. Big boobs =/= nice boobs. and girls who weigh 120lbs rarely have DDs.

I never said character development = breast size. I never said the two were equally important. Moreover, I never implied that either. I also didn't say that gameplay makes up for bad writing/narrative. I said some games, particularly text adventure games, try to comphensate for bad gameplay with superb writing. My point was that something that is used to comphensate for a weak point of a game is not inherently bad, simply because some designers use it as a crutch.

I am talking about modern games. And crutches are bad.

Text adventure games are arguably modern, in the sense that new ones are still being made. Have you ever played Echo Bazaar? And my point was simply that traits which some designers use as a crutch are not bad in themselves, it is rather the tendency to try to make a game stand on one trait which prevents it from being good.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Sometimes it just gets so ridiculous it's disgusting (i.e. the bizarre anti-gravity breast physics in Ninja Gaiden), but otherwise it isn't really much of an issue, especially compared to problems of characterization.

I would, however, like to point that fan service for women absolutely does exist in games (it's the foundation of the entire Sengoku Basara series, for example) and not all attractive male characters exist to appeal to men (you see a lot of this in JRPGs). Unfortunately, a lot of games that are big on this sort of thing never leave Japan, so they get left out of these arguments.

 

[mxfox408]

Big boobs small boobs who cares, if the story is good, then why would i care about boobs are huge or small? Some people just have to have a reason to ***** and complain.

 

[archvile93]

I only complain when they're absurdly huge, like say, you can't figure out how they manage to stand up with so much weight in the front. You'd think it'd be impossible to stay balanced.

 

[Choppaduel]

Well I prefer women with smaller breast... just my personal preference...

but in games it usually doesn't bother me too much it's just distracting...<.<

Because in Dragon Age II... They're on my "sister"

It's just weird.

And then talk about women lining up for implants...

Yeah, I like big boobs. But, when everyone has them, I feel like I must somehow exit the matrix.

Slim pickings for me, since I'm late to the thread, good points have been raised. I think they're worth repeating. up above.
[hr]
As for me, well you'd never be able to perform the physical maneuvers theses action girls do with large, heavy breasts, so it takes me out of the game somewhat. I mean, I'm willing to overlook this once, but every time, in every game (almost), the EXTREMELY buxom women jump 15 ft into the air and do aerials; it's getting ridiculous. Theres only one game to my knowledge that features an action girl with breasts that wouldn't get in the way. yep... its Mirror's Edge.

I can see some "double standards" issues being raised by the peanut gallery with the above. Having giant burly men doing similar feats, and such. But you never see any giant fat men doing those. Why? Because fat's dead weight in the acrobatics game.

 

[Jacob Haggarty]

I agree, except on point 2, because intelligence isnt a completely genetic trait. In fact, it is far more likely to be an environmentally aquired thing, more than being born with a preset intelligence. Although it may be true that genetically, some people may have a certain disposition towards intelligence, it doesnt strictly mean that the person will HAVE above average smarts.

Also, having large boobs is NOT abnormality. Its uncommon to have HUGE breasts, but it still wouldnt be classed as abnormal. Abnormal implies that something has gone wrong, and there are very few cases when this is so. More often than not its just down to luck (or bad luck) what size someones boobs are. Because the genes that will determine the size are random (producing whatever hormone determines such things) is random, meaning you may have larger or smaller breasts than the mother. That DOESNT mean that there is a problem. Like i said: luck (or bad luck).

But yeah, apart from that i agree with you. I have absolutely no problem, although i cant say i notice much. Unless its really in-your-face, like Ivy from soul calibur...

I would just like to add that, in some cases, size may well be an abnormality. Buts thats like J sizes, and thats not too common.

 

[Gunner_Guardian]

I never have seen big breasts defended so well...

 

[lacktheknack]

You know why I hate large breasts in games?

One time, while playing Tomb Raider, I finally managed to get through a ridiculous section of traps, only to get killed at the very end of it by getting a poison dart through the jugs.

Seriously, I would have survived that run if it wasn't for the damned breasts that stick out about two thirds of a foot in front of her.

That doesn't count the amount of times I've had Lara die from having spiked ceilings lowered right in front of her (thus ripping her boobs off), having a boulder barely miss her (but squashing her boobs anyways), or a rather hilarious sequence where she got a fatal nipple piercing by the SAME ARROW TRAP three times in a row. Seriously, Lara, get a breast reduction.

Also, excessively large breasts lower my ability to relate to the character, because I've only known one girl with unusually large breasts. It breaks immersion, because my first thought is "Wow, those are defying gravity."

 

[RelexCryo]

I agree, except on point 2, because intelligence isnt a completely genetic trait. In fact, it is far more likely to be an environmentally aquired thing, more than being born with a preset intelligence. Although it may be true that genetically, some people may have a certain disposition towards intelligence, it doesnt strictly mean that the person will HAVE above average smarts.

Also, having large boobs is NOT abnormality. Its uncommon to have HUGE breasts, but it still wouldnt be classed as abnormal. Abnormal implies that something has gone wrong, and there are very few cases when this is so. More often than not its just down to luck (or bad luck) what size someones boobs are. Because the genes that will determine the size are random (producing whatever hormone determines such things) is random, meaning you may have larger or smaller breasts than the mother. That DOESNT mean that there is a problem. Like i said: luck (or bad luck).

But yeah, apart from that i agree with you. I have absolutely no problem, although i cant say i notice much. Unless its really in-your-face, like Ivy from soul calibur...

This is quite true, intelligence is largely a product of emotional maturity, logic skills, and a tendency to analyze things rather than making assumptions, which are all things you can be taught to do, or influenced to not do, based on your environment.

On the other hand, as far as fictional characters go, you have characters like Reed Richards' daughter Valeria and Agatha Heterodyne who go way beyond basic logic skills.

 

[4173]

Also, having large boobs is NOT abnormality. Its uncommon to have HUGE breasts, but it still wouldnt be classed as abnormal. Abnormal implies that something has gone wrong, and there are very few cases when this is so. More often than not its just down to luck (or bad luck) what size someones boobs are. Because the genes that will determine the size are random (producing whatever hormone determines such things) is random, meaning you may have larger or smaller breasts than the mother. That DOESNT mean that there is a problem. Like i said: luck (or bad luck).

Good call, that's a important distinction. It stretches plausibility to near broken but in theory, all the women a character interacts with could happen to have large/huge breasts. We'd be probably be talking about well under a 1% chance.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

because it undermines the seriousness of the art form, if all paintings of women had huge knockers female portraits would never have reached the heights of the mona lisa. Plus it is just plain embarrassing trying to explain my passion for gaming when a juvenile representation of a woman is on the box art, i'm a grown man and am too old to be impressed by boobie physics

 

[jawakiller]

Cuz they not gettin any? ... No its because games glorify muscles and boob- yes sweet boobies.... where was I? Right, and people think that staring at the oh so awesome rack is not really art ( and it prolly isn't) but who gives a shit? Also half the feminists I know (not all goddamn it, just half) are flat chested... Coincidence? I think not!

Its an unhealthy portrayal of women. But I really could care less. Who wants to see a women with a 10 year olds chest?... Damn you pedophiles!