BioShock 2 DRM Getting Scaled Back

[Signa]

GFWL is like having the Yahoo! or AskJeeves toolbar forced on you. You know it's malware (in this case, a corporate deal you're forced to take part in when some disreputable company has sold their soul to Satan), but you can't use the primary software without accepting its presence. So you either find a way to neuter it, or blacklist the software.

In the case of Bioshock, this actually means you're paying $50 or more to be held prisoner by a shitty piece of third-party software you want nothing to do with.

Great analogy. No way in fucking hell am I putting an unwanted toolbar on my browser, and most PC gamer "elitists" aren't going to either. You only are going to install the software you want on your PC, and not what someone else wants you to run.

Personally, I can deal with the install limits as long as they allow you to revoke them. GFWL is malware as far as I'm concerned because it's not going to do anything for me. I think I'll be passing on the purchase of this one just because of that. I can always pirate it and not have to deal with GFWL. IF some hackers allow people to remove GFWL from the game, then I'll see about picking up the game. I seriously want to buy the game if it's even half as good as BS1, but I can't pat the publishers on the back with a purchase if I'm upset about the way their product is handled. They will just keep doing it!

 

[Eruanno]

Games For Windows Live can suck it. As can install limits. Xbox 360 it is.

I would also like to point out that they haven't scaled back the DRM at all. It's still exactly the same as before, now they just explained how it works. And it still sucks balls.

 

[Asehujiko]

So, what do you think? Is it enough to quell the irritated PC masses? Or is it still not good enough?

It'll be good enough when they 1: remove the rootkit. 2: stop lying about it's existence. THEN i'll consider buying something from them.

 

[karmapolizei]

Now, before you start throwing things at me, this is MY personal opinion. I'm not trying to start a flamewar. If you start something with me, do it in PM and don't risk getting banned over an opinion.

I never really understood the hate on DRM and SecuROM. It's just trying to stop piracy, which, lets face it, is eventually going to piss enough devs off and they're just going to stop producing top games.

And why the hate on GFWL? It doesn't bother me that much in DoW2. I don't see what all the bitching and moaning is about.

I dunno, may be I just don't see the side of gaming where you ***** and moan about every little change. As long as the game is the best the devs can produce, it shouldn't matter how many times you should install a game, or whatever.

*dons flameshield*

It's simple: Most DRM methods, if not all, fail completely at preventing piracy, while at the same time, they make life harder for honest people who have actually bought the thing. The most any DRM scheme has ever done is pushing the first release of a crack back one week from the release date of the game, which, let's admit it, is not much at all.
At the same time, legit and honest customers have to deal with...
... a piece of software that subjects their systems to what SecuROM and game publishers think is okay (SecuROM thinks Process Explorer is a hacking tool, for example. I can assure you: it is not, and now can I decide again which software is run on MY PC?!?) and can't be uninstalled
... the fact that they have no control whatsoever over how long and under which circumstances they will be able to play their game - if it requires activation, their ability to play depends on whether the activation servers are still online, and frankly, you can't count on that forever for a load of reasons
... getting the inferior product: Pirated versions of DRMed software are usually much more comfortable to use. Take Grand Theft Auto IV for example: I happen to have played a cracked version of it AND have bought a legit copy after I saw I liked it. Turned out I had to install a lot of crap, set up a lot of accounts on crappily developed web sites and jump through some config loops to play the retail version... none of which was required in the pirated game. Now, how is that helping the case against piracy?
... have to suffer through in-game anti-piracy methods: Yes, it's true. Developers aren't almighty. There's no eye in the sky that can reliably tell apart legit and pirated copies of a game, so if a game comes with in-game methods against piracy (like Batman or the first Mass Effect did), there's a fair chance that legit customers will end up with gimped Batman or blocked save functions AND DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON! Now, if you think that's unlikely, go to the Mass Effect PC self-help forums, remind yourself that only registered customers can post there, and see how many complains about unavailable Galaxy Map, weapons not cooling down and disabled save functions you can find, and how all of these people keep being called "pirates".

Did that help to clarify?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Speaking for PC gamers, not only do we have to put up with this shit but we also have to put up with all the passive aggressive bullshit attacking us for the way in which we put up with that shit. Thanks a lot, escapist. Why not stick to making overly optimistic puff pieces about the XBox and leave PC gaming alone.

 

[Silva]

Only completely removing DRM and the other protections would satisfy all those complaining about excessive security. Anything less that is done will only make people more angry, because it means that Irrational can tell as easily as everyone else how over-the-top this is, and yet is still unwilling to completely remove the idiocy from the system. The whole situation just screams "cartel" and the current consumer market is too smart to believe the PR talk from the executives of companies that engage in this kind of paranoid, legally obsessed behaviour.

 

[Darth Sea Bass]

No i still won't get it until they remove gfwl.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Install limits are pure unbridled EVIL. plus it means your only renting the game long term!

Still think its all the fcuked up to have this kind of DRM. Just make it so the Big daddy cant use his drill or plasmids if u have the pirate version. Problem solved. "WTF I CAN'T DO ANYTHING" response being "Yeah buy the game you fifty criminal"

 

[Xersues]

That's funny, the cracked version of Batman I use (I bought it off steam during the holiday sale so bugger off) works fine. I hate DRM and GFWL and I refuse to have either on my system. The cracked versions don't have that or some one mods them out. I will only buy a PC game over a console if it doesn't have a bunch of shit with it.

I hope these companies learn. It's complete bullshit.

 

[Legion]

Considering DRM and such are proven failures I'd say no, because they clearly have no effect on pirates and only fuck things up for legitimate customers.

I am getting it for the 360 anyway because while my PC spec-wise is technically more than enough, in experience that doesn't seem to matter as in reality it never is if I want high graphics with a smooth frame-rate.

 

[Trivun]

See, this is why I like being a console gamer. I still play PC games, but fortunately the only DRM of any kind for most of my games involves typing in the CD key on every install. The games I play on PC are mostly relatively aged, though still good, so there aren't all these silly install limits and the dreaded SecuROM system and whatnot. Anyway, this doesn't affect me since I p-lan to get the Bioshock games (both of them) on Xbox. I only really get newer games for PC when they're enhanced a lot by mods and whatnot. Like the Orange Box. Though really it all depends on whether my laptop graphics are good enough to handle it...

 

[Skratt]

DRM is the biggest farce ever sold to companies. DRM is an illusion that costs companies millions and alienates fans and does not stop pirates, in fact it hardly slows them down.

If you make a game for X million and spend N million protecting it and you receive Z million for the sales it generates, you could be making Z and saving N if you just stopped putting DRM if your damn games.

 

[ckeymel]

I never really understood the hate on DRM and SecuROM. It's just trying to stop piracy, which, lets face it, is eventually going to piss enough devs off and they're just going to stop producing top games.

To be honest, and this is just my opinion as well, I think DRM is put on games not for piracy - as it has been shown time and time again that DRM does absolutely nothing to stop piracy, and in fact, adding DRM seems to be more of an issued challenge to hackers than anything else - but is implemented to help curb used game sales.

Beyond that, DRM does absolutely nothing, so I see no other reason for a company to use it, unless they are trying to also kill their PC user base.

 

[CymTyr]

What they need to add is a revoke tool like Batman: AA has. If they do that, THEN they can compare Bioshock 2 to Batman all they want...

 

[dududf]

First of all, they're giving people the option to have the limits reset, so it's like there isn't a limit at all.
Second, who the hell uses 15 installs unless it's a very rare / special case?
Third, SecureROM is a one time thing, (You can call it useless but it's hardly intrusive)
The only standing argument here is GFWL, which you have to log into once, then just check "stay logged in" and never have to give it the time of day again.

Seriously, why in the world is the internet up in arms over this? I really don't get it.
Seconds of my (not so) valuable time is being wasted! Woe is me!

Not everyone has good internet, Securom has been known to **** up your computer, and GFWL is horrible.

Have you actually used any of them? Because it takes personal experience for you to be able to understand in a situation like this.

I'm still missing the problem. Securom, I haven't had any problems with. And instead of saying "GFWL sucks", wanna tell me why? I use it for Street Fighter 4, and it does nothing. NOTHING. As in, NOTHING BAD.

I just don't get it either.

OK.

First off, you are forcing me to use a service that is buggy on computers. Such as my own. Then, you make us log in for a SINGLE PLAYER GAME to load or save our games. Then you add activation limits.

Also, I've had more crashes due to Securom then I've ever had due to virus', and I recently had to buy a new mother board and graphics card thanks to a nasty virus.

All of this, will do NOTHING to stop pirates, and will only effect the customer.

I know, I've pirated my fair share of games and I am not inconvenienced at all by it. All this stuff is doing is making me want to pirate the games. If they don't get rid of that DRM I will just pirate it to spite them.

 

[Arashi500]

I personaly enjoy GFWL, so no biggie, and not problem for Fallout3, and If your not planning on pirating or non-profit spreading of an item, why would you need to install it more then once? Albiet if it's glicthy and has self-screw-up installation it would take more then once try to figure all the little details out. However that shouldn't take even 10, let alone 15 installs. Unless you have to install it on 15 different computers, which no individual should, It's not a huge deal-breaker.

 

[HentMas]

Now, before you start throwing things at me, this is MY personal opinion. I'm not trying to start a flamewar. If you start something with me, do it in PM and don't risk getting banned over an opinion.

I never really understood the hate on DRM and SecuROM. It's just trying to stop piracy, which, lets face it, is eventually going to piss enough devs off and they're just going to stop producing top games.

And why the hate on GFWL? It doesn't bother me that much in DoW2. I don't see what all the bitching and moaning is about.

I dunno, may be I just don't see the side of gaming where you ***** and moan about every little change. As long as the game is the best the devs can produce, it shouldn't matter how many times you should install a game, or whatever.

*dons flameshield*

yeah, when i installed DOWII and saw GFWL i thought it was a stupid little program but it never has done anything except "log in" so it doesnt botter me that much, i don´t really like to play multiplayer games so i will never use it, but having it there hasn´t caused any troubles for me at all.