BioWare and Mythic Merge, Mark Jacobs Leaves
- Thread starter John Funk
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I'd add "as long as they don't put Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age on the back-burner."nova18 said:
Wow. Didn't see that one coming. I just hope that this doesn't mean that either studio will slow down in their respective gaming niche. The only MMOs I play are Mythic; that being Warhammer Online and Dark Age of Camelot (to a lesser extent). Bioware is probably my favorite gaming studio out there, and I will sometimes try titles for no other reason than Bioware did it (see Sonic Chronicles). Long as Bioware keeps making the single player RPGs, I'm happy. Them also having input on MMOs might be neat.
The day this happens is the day I simply stop playing new games and dig out my Genesis.PedroSteckecilo said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. =)fsanch said:
No, thank you, sir! I don't mind the wild speculations but I at least like people to be presented with as much fact as possible before their heads explode with conspiracy theories.CantFaketheFunk said:Corrected it. Thanks, James
Yes, BioWare still lives, and..uh..maybe? *ahem*Simriel said:
If you do I shall fall to my knees and worship you for working at BioWare. My Second Fav game company.RollForInitiative said:I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. =)fsanch said:
No, thank you, sir! I don't mind the wild speculations but I at least like people to be presented with as much fact as possible before their heads explode with conspiracy theories.CantFaketheFunk said:Corrected it. Thanks, James
Yes, BioWare still lives, and..uh..maybe? *ahem*Simriel said:
If this is any way affects SWTOR is a bad way, I shall taunt EA not once, but twice. I will then bite their knee caps off. Then beat them with a herring.
I've never played one that doesn't require a significant amount of grind, has a decent cast of characters and a story that actually presents itself instead of being deeply hidden in the background. However in a sense I suppose you are correct. The only real sin of MMO's is the Monthly Fee, a very lucrative pie that every studio desperately wants a piece of.CantFaketheFunk said:
I'm going to play devil's advocate here solely to amuse myself. I buy new games fairly frequently; enough that it generates a decent monthly cost to keep supplying myself. One of my co-workers, on the other hand, has been playing Warcraft for a number of years. He pays about $12/month to be entertained, while I pay...well, let's just say it's significantly more than that.PedroSteckecilo said:
I have difficulty arguing against monthly fees when a game is well maintained, has frequent injections of content, and is capable of entertaining people for such great lengths of time. It's apparently costing them far less money than it's costing me.
For the record, designers retain all dexterity bonuses when caught flat footed. It's how we deal with scheduling changes.Simriel said:
Mythic and BioWare have two huge things in common. They don't get huge numbers of players at the same time for a lot of their games even after they have been several years old. Match that with EA's inability to create a true lasting product but being able to snag huge simultaneous numbers and they might be able to produce a MMORPG with the combined experience that might actually challenge WoW.
If it gets pulled off I however don't believe it will reach the subscription numbers of WoW still. (side note:1) The main disadvantage of the MMORPG market is it is really hard to convince people to leave their games where they have done the leveling etc to join a new game and have to start it all over again. The people who truly enjoy starting over at 1 over and over again are truly a small percentage. So there is a ton of work required to convince people to drop their WoW characters and play a new MMORPG for more than a few months of "new game syndrome".
(side note:1) = Kind of like King of the hill, you have to give the king a really good reason to get of the hill and move to a new hill.
If it gets pulled off I however don't believe it will reach the subscription numbers of WoW still. (side note:1) The main disadvantage of the MMORPG market is it is really hard to convince people to leave their games where they have done the leveling etc to join a new game and have to start it all over again. The people who truly enjoy starting over at 1 over and over again are truly a small percentage. So there is a ton of work required to convince people to drop their WoW characters and play a new MMORPG for more than a few months of "new game syndrome".
(side note:1) = Kind of like King of the hill, you have to give the king a really good reason to get of the hill and move to a new hill.
Admissions should come from people who have something to admit, what you are doing is speculating. It's another manimal all together.PedroSteckecilo said:
MMOs are not cheap to make, they are not cheap to maintain. Take a mid-sized MMO like Age of Conan. It cost about 25-30 million USD to develop, and while Funcom have never given any official numbers (afaik) to how much it costs to maintain the servers and release updates at regular intervals, it's a fair assessment that they have over 60 fulltime staffers assigned to the game at any given time, developing it or maintaining it in some way. That's a rather big cost, and when the game doesn't hit its subscription goal it's not profitable at all.
Compare that to a 10 million USD triple A singleplayer title with a multiplayer component, like Gears of War 1. There's patching, sure, but not to the extent that there is with a MMOG. The cost is smaller, the profit potential is larger.
MMOGs are only the faceless corporate game-company's wet dream when it's a massive, earthshattering hit like WoW was. If not they can bleed you dry and take away paid manpower from new projects which could make you more mad cash. MMOGs might be the flavour of the month, but they won't kill off the singleplayer any more than the online FPS did.
I'm expecting WAR to be shut down to avoid competing with TOR. EA has a habit of doing that with underperforming MMOs. No i don't need another WAR fanboi yelling that bioware is the one being shut down because it was YOUR CEO who got fired, no bioware's. And they are outselling you 10:1.
Does anybody remember what happened when they consolidated their RTS divisions EA LA and Westwood? For the console plebs and other people living under a rock/too young to remember: It was a disaster.
Does anybody remember what happened when they consolidated their RTS divisions EA LA and Westwood? For the console plebs and other people living under a rock/too young to remember: It was a disaster.
Mark is a casual twit who thinks his games are better then they are. Dark Age of Camelot was successfully by the same reasons Twitter/Facebook/Google are all successfully. You give a bunch of people the tools and they build your game for you. Mark never had a fucking clue what he was doing and was just throwing darts at the development bored for 6 years to see what worked and what didn't.
In fact he even posted on the VN warhammer boards back in the day that he never really plays healer classes as they simply "weren't his thing". Fucking great, the guy behind the table point the fingers and dealing with balance issues can't even fucking play his own game and trust me when I say this but I don't need to see him play to know he sucks at it. When you SUCK at Video Games you are the last fucking person on the planet who should be in charge of balance. Period.
Mark Jacobs is the the fucking trophy in shitty developers. Dark Age of Camelot was a great game but not because of anything he did and only because of the community. A community he neglected for years as he just "did his own thing". The game turned into a heavy PvP ordinated game and what does he do? Makes a fucking PvE expansion and releases it without fucking testing the damn thing. I hope he gets out of the game design business now. Seriously. I really just fucking wish I could get a fucking list of what Mark Jacobs designs. I remember him talking a lot of shit about how the Warhammer Crafting system was "innovative" and what you got instead was a grind worst then WoW but better then Dark Age of Camelot and trust me thats not saying shit. I remember talking about the Public Quest and how he invented it but sorry... I think I have seen this shit before in fucking World of Warcraft AQ opening event. Was it repeatable every 5 minutes? No but thats what made it fucking exciting. Nobody wants to go fucking grind the same Public Quest over and over for gear in a PvP game you dip shit. Oh no not enough people for the PQ? Oh then you can't do it. Or how about when he got all hot and bothered that Warcraft was creating an Achievement system? Oh because you created your tome of knowledge? Yeah sorry but they didn't fucking steal that idea from as more so then you ripped off the fucking Xbox design. Worst of all you completly missed the point of achievements. Your Achievements have no point system and are pointless. DIE TO FALL DAMAGE 50,000 TIMES AND GET AN ACHIEVEMENT? EXCUSE ME? At least Warcrafts Achievement system just became something for people to do. Oh man I kill some doods I get some virtual points neat. The Warhammer system is like fucking I DISCOVERED A LAKE AND I GET a 4 PAGE NOVEL THAT ISN'T SPELL CHECKED AND IS COMPLETELY BLAND.
Mark Jacobs has as much idea as a fucking box of Lucky Charms. You fucking put your hand into the box, pull out some symbols and just start talking. UHH POT...CLOUD....RAINBOW... OKAY A CRAFTING SYSTEM WHERE YOU RUN AROUND AND TRY AND CATCH WEATHER IN IT! OMFG IM A VIDEO GAME DEVELOPER. SOMEONE HAND ME A BOX OF ALPHABETS. Seriously. No fucking talent just a puff of smoke. Don't even get me started on his little buddy Paul "Talks to much shit" Barrett or whatever the fuck his name is. I still fucking remember the day he said THERE WON'T BE HEALERS IN WARHAMMER and here I'm sitting thinking? Oh Really? What about all of us who like to heal? Wait no how exactly are you going to create a balanced game without healers? Oh wait. You couldn't because one that was a stupid fucking idea in the first god damn place and two you have about as much innovation as a fucking monkey.
If for some reason your ever googling your name and you read this Mark. Heres a mother fucking pro tip. Next time you create a game. Go play some others. Don't level to 12 in World of Warcraft and think you played the game. Fucking 'Beat' it and then go "Man I learned so much from the most successfully mmo, now I will have a fraction of a chance at creating a successful game this time" because honestly I'm not sure who even plays Warhammer? The game doesn't cater to casuals or hardcore players. Casual players don't like dealing with your buggy shitty interface/spells/dungeons/pvp and you don't give anything for Hardcore players to do. Mindlessly kill people even though your imbalanced system doesn't let them take Cities, hey haven't played in awhile maybe you fixed that but I have no doubt in my mind that I bet it sucks and lags to all fucking shit. Casual shitty gamers like yourself Mark should not be in the game designing business and I know you will make something else in the future and I know it will suck and I will smile in delight as I watch you never learn anything ever.
I'm going to go fucking shoot bitches in some video games because I hate this man and what he does to MMORPGS. The genre will be fine without it but I know that fucking shit is gonna announcer fucking DAOC2 or some crap. I just fucking know it.
In fact he even posted on the VN warhammer boards back in the day that he never really plays healer classes as they simply "weren't his thing". Fucking great, the guy behind the table point the fingers and dealing with balance issues can't even fucking play his own game and trust me when I say this but I don't need to see him play to know he sucks at it. When you SUCK at Video Games you are the last fucking person on the planet who should be in charge of balance. Period.
Mark Jacobs is the the fucking trophy in shitty developers. Dark Age of Camelot was a great game but not because of anything he did and only because of the community. A community he neglected for years as he just "did his own thing". The game turned into a heavy PvP ordinated game and what does he do? Makes a fucking PvE expansion and releases it without fucking testing the damn thing. I hope he gets out of the game design business now. Seriously. I really just fucking wish I could get a fucking list of what Mark Jacobs designs. I remember him talking a lot of shit about how the Warhammer Crafting system was "innovative" and what you got instead was a grind worst then WoW but better then Dark Age of Camelot and trust me thats not saying shit. I remember talking about the Public Quest and how he invented it but sorry... I think I have seen this shit before in fucking World of Warcraft AQ opening event. Was it repeatable every 5 minutes? No but thats what made it fucking exciting. Nobody wants to go fucking grind the same Public Quest over and over for gear in a PvP game you dip shit. Oh no not enough people for the PQ? Oh then you can't do it. Or how about when he got all hot and bothered that Warcraft was creating an Achievement system? Oh because you created your tome of knowledge? Yeah sorry but they didn't fucking steal that idea from as more so then you ripped off the fucking Xbox design. Worst of all you completly missed the point of achievements. Your Achievements have no point system and are pointless. DIE TO FALL DAMAGE 50,000 TIMES AND GET AN ACHIEVEMENT? EXCUSE ME? At least Warcrafts Achievement system just became something for people to do. Oh man I kill some doods I get some virtual points neat. The Warhammer system is like fucking I DISCOVERED A LAKE AND I GET a 4 PAGE NOVEL THAT ISN'T SPELL CHECKED AND IS COMPLETELY BLAND.
Mark Jacobs has as much idea as a fucking box of Lucky Charms. You fucking put your hand into the box, pull out some symbols and just start talking. UHH POT...CLOUD....RAINBOW... OKAY A CRAFTING SYSTEM WHERE YOU RUN AROUND AND TRY AND CATCH WEATHER IN IT! OMFG IM A VIDEO GAME DEVELOPER. SOMEONE HAND ME A BOX OF ALPHABETS. Seriously. No fucking talent just a puff of smoke. Don't even get me started on his little buddy Paul "Talks to much shit" Barrett or whatever the fuck his name is. I still fucking remember the day he said THERE WON'T BE HEALERS IN WARHAMMER and here I'm sitting thinking? Oh Really? What about all of us who like to heal? Wait no how exactly are you going to create a balanced game without healers? Oh wait. You couldn't because one that was a stupid fucking idea in the first god damn place and two you have about as much innovation as a fucking monkey.
If for some reason your ever googling your name and you read this Mark. Heres a mother fucking pro tip. Next time you create a game. Go play some others. Don't level to 12 in World of Warcraft and think you played the game. Fucking 'Beat' it and then go "Man I learned so much from the most successfully mmo, now I will have a fraction of a chance at creating a successful game this time" because honestly I'm not sure who even plays Warhammer? The game doesn't cater to casuals or hardcore players. Casual players don't like dealing with your buggy shitty interface/spells/dungeons/pvp and you don't give anything for Hardcore players to do. Mindlessly kill people even though your imbalanced system doesn't let them take Cities, hey haven't played in awhile maybe you fixed that but I have no doubt in my mind that I bet it sucks and lags to all fucking shit. Casual shitty gamers like yourself Mark should not be in the game designing business and I know you will make something else in the future and I know it will suck and I will smile in delight as I watch you never learn anything ever.
I'm going to go fucking shoot bitches in some video games because I hate this man and what he does to MMORPGS. The genre will be fine without it but I know that fucking shit is gonna announcer fucking DAOC2 or some crap. I just fucking know it.
This is terrible news. Mythic is a mediocre developer at best and they dropped the ball on Warhammer:Age of Reckoning. Also, their only other (finished) project was Dark Age of Camelot, so they have a grand total of two games under their belt (Imperator doesn't count since they didn't finish it). On the other hand, Bioware is a tried and true RPG developer with a consistent track record for making good games.
This can mean a few things. First, EA is going to bully Bioware into focusing on MMOs which would be tragic to say the least. I'm optimistic about SW:TOR, but I'm even more enthusiastic about Bioware's single player games. It would be a crying shame to see one of the last vestiges of western RPGs go down the drain and leave the genre.
Second, Bioware will get the "benefit" of Mythic's experience and I don't see that as a good thing. They managed to screw up WAR and then managed NOT to fix it. And they did so while using the outdated and overused staples of the genre as passed down from the days of EQ. The only reason why I'm interested in SW:TOR is because it sounded like Bioware was trying some new concepts there, but with the addition of the Mythic team I fear that this means the game might get shoehorned into a more conservative EQ/WoW ripoff.
Third, I don't see any benefit for Bioware from this for their non-MMO projects since Mythic hasn't had any experience with a non-MMO game. They're just getting a bunch of guys with dubious skills to water down their talent pool. WAR had fairly bad graphics, I didn't notice any particularly good writing and the bugs were plentiful.
Overall, if this is a full scale merger, I fear for the quality of future Bioware games. If Mythic is only being brought in to help with SW:TOR, I fear for SW:TOR and what little promise that game had. A dickmove by EA, to say the least.
This can mean a few things. First, EA is going to bully Bioware into focusing on MMOs which would be tragic to say the least. I'm optimistic about SW:TOR, but I'm even more enthusiastic about Bioware's single player games. It would be a crying shame to see one of the last vestiges of western RPGs go down the drain and leave the genre.
Second, Bioware will get the "benefit" of Mythic's experience and I don't see that as a good thing. They managed to screw up WAR and then managed NOT to fix it. And they did so while using the outdated and overused staples of the genre as passed down from the days of EQ. The only reason why I'm interested in SW:TOR is because it sounded like Bioware was trying some new concepts there, but with the addition of the Mythic team I fear that this means the game might get shoehorned into a more conservative EQ/WoW ripoff.
Third, I don't see any benefit for Bioware from this for their non-MMO projects since Mythic hasn't had any experience with a non-MMO game. They're just getting a bunch of guys with dubious skills to water down their talent pool. WAR had fairly bad graphics, I didn't notice any particularly good writing and the bugs were plentiful.
Overall, if this is a full scale merger, I fear for the quality of future Bioware games. If Mythic is only being brought in to help with SW:TOR, I fear for SW:TOR and what little promise that game had. A dickmove by EA, to say the least.