Bioware characters

[Soviet Heavy]

I despise Merrill as a character. She's all manic shy super powerful "look at me aren't I socially awkward?" pap that pisses me off from a personality standpoint alone. But it is her actions that make me truly loathe her. She consorts with demons, insists they are okay, and gets her Keeper killed because she was a stupid little idiot who never owns up for her actions. The game tries to play her off as not being all there, being from a sheltered society and nervous around people, but I found her obsession with the mirror and her flagrant disregard for safety as proof enough. She isn't a cute little damsel. She's an irresponsible, spoiled little brat who never thinks about the consequences and only ever reflects after they get people she loves killed.

Hmm, I think you miss the whole point of Merrill. She didn't kill the Keeper, the Keeper decided to imprison the demon in herself because she thought Merrill would mess up. If you look at Merrill's storyline she never actually does anything to harm anyone else, they all harm themselves because they are scared of her. That one guy runs off into the monster because he's afraid of her, though she's never harmed him or the other Elves. The Keeper similarly is afraid she won't be able to control the Demon so becomes it. Even though she's proved she can handle demons before. The Elves turn on her because the Keeper did something stupid and so they try to kill her. She's never harmed anyone with her blood magic, people harm themselves because they are afraid of her blood magic.

I think it unfair to say "She never thinks of consequences" when the last part of her story mission proves otherwise. The whole reason you are there is because she is actually thinking of the consequences and wants you to kill her if it comes to it. Pretty sure she thought through that one entirely.

Though I can understand how some would be annoyed by her "shy socially awkward" persona.

Never harms anyone else? Is that why she turned her back on me in the Fade and set a greater Daemon on me? Yeah, that smacks right in the face of her claims that Blood Magic never hurts anyone, and that she is in control. She clearly isn't, and it makes her defence of using blood magic fall flat on its face.

I also don't see how the Keeper protecting Merrill is stupid. If anything, she was being more reasonable than gigglesquee. She friggin handled having a demon bound to her for years without incident, while Merrill takes one step into the Fade and immediately turns along with the rest of your party members.

As much as I hated both Anders and Fenris for being racist assholes, I still enjoyed them mocking and criticizing the shit out of Merrill. The game wouldn't let me say how everything she did was utter bullshit, but at least those twats would give her the appropriate lip. In a game where every blood mage turns into a murderous psychopath, I refuse to believe that Merrill is an exception just because she plays the role of socially awkward nerdy virgin girl who the player must crush on.

 

[NKRevan]

One thing I think you're misunderstanding, is the difference between generic and one dimensional. Bioware characters are not one dimensional at all; and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that they are. One dimensional characters are characters that are all surface. Gordon Freeman is heroic, brave, smart, talented. But he is one dimensional because that is all he is. He doesn't have complex motivations or problems. He isn't conflicted. He doesn't even struggle to be the things that he is, or have to learn to be them.

Bioware characters are anything but that. They always have a backstory to who they are, they have reasons for being who they are, and they change as people. The problem with them is that they are generic. http://www.gamesradar.com/recycled-characters-you-see-in-every-bioware-game/. Bioware character pretty much always fall into the same arcs and the same general character sets. One dimensional they ain't, generic they is. Using generic characters isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is that Bioware always uses the same types of generic characters where other developer studios are more willing to mix and match or create less overused generic characters.

If I had to pick a character that I liked the most I would probably have to go with Jolee Bindo. I have a soft spot in my heart for flippant nonconformists.

I thought that article you linked was pretty interesting, but, ironically enough, very one-dimensional.

I'll pick a few examples to explain what I mean:

Liara: When you understand more about her, get to know her and as her character evolves, she changes from the description the article gives her. She makes it from cute do-gooder to the Shadowbroker. She displays ruthlessness and the ability to operate the largest intelligence network in the galaxy. She matures as you play through the games. Simply labeling her as one type of character is doing a disservice to the character progression that is present. She's definitely no longer awkward in ME3.

Pile of Grey Sludge: I kinda agree here. Except I would have used a certain character from KOTOR for that stereotype. XD

Anderson: Useless? I'm not sure if I would call Anderson useless. I mean...he kinda holds the Earth together (background doings, but hey). He's also the one to always support shepard, along with the admiral. I think he's a lot more than useless in terms of character interaction. Maybe from a gameplay point of view, but that's not what this is about, is it?

Morrigan: I thought she usually insulted someone ELSE, not you. Anyway, I also don't remember daddy issues (though mommy issues may be of concern). Truthfully, I thought her character development was a lot different from the other examples given.

Robots: Really? Putting Legion and HK-47 into the same generic pile? That's kind of....really weird. To me they are inherently different characters. One is an assassin and nothing else with an attitude to boot, the other is a fighter, who attempts to make life better for his people. Not sure where there are similarities here, except that they have metal for bodies.

What I mean to say is, I agree with the point made to an extent. Usually, you can quickly identify the generic STARTING POINT of BioWare characters. But as the OP points out, once you peel back the layers of the characters, they turn out a lot more varied than one might think in the beginning.

But that could just be me.

PS: Minsc, Liara, Garrus, Mordin and Shale are sort of my faves.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I think like others have said, they are shallow until you talk to them more. Like Ashley- she seems like some generic action girl, but when you talk to her (especially in ME1) she seems to have real depth.
I haven't actually heard people criticise Bioware characters though. I seem to understand everyone is in agreement that they are superb.
Personally I prefer Liara, Specialist Traynor and Joker. Liara has a really interesting character curve through the games if you look closely, Traynor has some interesting dialogue and has an amazing accent, and Joker is probably the most relatable character, as well has having amusing lines and being overall amazing.

 

[BrotherRool]

So I think there are probably three types of Bioware character

1. The two dimensional characters (lots of Mass Effect in here, Garrus, Mordin, probably even Miranda as an example of a bad 2D character). Less of these in Knights of the Old Republic (maybe Juhani? Other than that I can't think of one)

2. The one-note characters. Probably comprise the majority of them. These can be both the best and worst characters. HK-47, Canderous, Mission Vao, Grunt, Vegas etc

3. The boring characters. These are the ones which technically have story but it doesn't seem to impact much on their character. Carth, Jacob etc.

There are all sorts of points inbetween. Bioware rock at the comedic one-notes. Towards the end of Mass Effect they began getting really good at the 2D character but in ME1 they sucked (I'm sorry, but you're viewing Garrus, Wrex and Tali through a tinted ME2 window. In ME1 they do nothing, say nothing and have no motivation. There is almost 0 interaction).

It was telling that there is not a single character in KotoR who isn't vastly improved upon and made more complex in KotoR2. There was definitely a point in time when their characters were the sound-bite/pop music of the writing world, but I think that time has passed. Even Vegas was better than the stuff they'd tried before

 

[Maximum Bert]

I dont mind them but they very rarely stick with me after the game I just dont care about them or find them interesting enough to remain in my thoughts but when I am in game I rarely despise them, there are exceptions ofc but thats not just in Bioware games. They do tend to fall into stereotypes but I have no problem with that the main character especially you know will be the chosen one and will be the only one capable of saving the world again no problem with this but I dont think Bioware are anything special in creating characters.

Oh and if they are in your party of the opposite gender (or not in some cases) and made to not be hideous odds are they want to get it on with you even if they dont know they know yup being the chosen one also imbues you with the power of extreme sexual magnetism.

I must admit I prefer characters of Bioware pre Jade Empire for the most part I know that from Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect in particular I will struggle to remember most of the characters in a few years or even now come to think of it.

 

[Frozengale]

Never harms anyone else? Is that why she turned her back on me in the Fade and set a greater Daemon on me? Yeah, that smacks right in the face of her claims that Blood Magic never hurts anyone, and that she is in control. She clearly isn't, and it makes her defence of using blood magic fall flat on its face.

I also don't see how the Keeper protecting Merrill is stupid. If anything, she was being more reasonable than gigglesquee. She friggin handled having a demon bound to her for years without incident, while Merrill takes one step into the Fade and immediately turns along with the rest of your party members.

As much as I hated both Anders and Fenris for being racist assholes, I still enjoyed them mocking and criticizing the shit out of Merrill. The game wouldn't let me say how everything she did was utter bullshit, but at least those twats would give her the appropriate lip. In a game where every blood mage turns into a murderous psychopath, I refuse to believe that Merrill is an exception just because she plays the role of socially awkward nerdy virgin girl who the player must crush on.

Yes, but literally EVERYONE turns on you in the Fade if given the chance. It has nothing to do with her being a blood mage. If she was a normal mage she would still turn on you.

The Keeper protecting Merrill is stupid because she doesn't know whether or not Merrill will become an abomination or not. She assumes the worst and so does the stupid thing of becoming some form of Abomination herself. Which is doubly stupid because Merrill already planned ahead for such an event and doesn't visit the Demon for 7 years until she can bring someone along to kill her. The Keeper expects Merrill will mess up, become an abomination and screw everyone over so she becomes an Abomination herself and puts Merrill, the clan, and everyone at risk. The Keeper can control it for a time sure, but she will eventually turn, like she does. Merrill at least has the forethought to bring people along to kill her as soon as she becomes an Abomination. So the Keeper basically plans for the worst and makes things worse. While Merrill plans ahead and even in her worst case scenario the only thing that happens is she dies, which she is okay with.

And who said that the player must crush on her? The nerd rage is strong in this one, yes.

 

[octafish]

I don't know, my favorite Bioware character is Jan Jannsen. How much depth does Jan need to be great? None, but he has depth none-the-less. I think the last "great" Bioware character was probably Deekin, everything beyond that is serviceable.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I thought that article you linked was pretty interesting, but, ironically enough, very one-dimensional.

Yeah I've seen it done a lot better before. But it was like 4 AM and I couldn't find anyone else's example. But the point still stands. The bulk of Bioware characters are very generic.

Also the article calling Mission Vao a 'hottie' is really really weird considering she is 13 years old in KOTOR and looks/acts it.

 

[Frozengale]

I thought that article you linked was pretty interesting, but, ironically enough, very one-dimensional.

Yeah I've seen it done a lot better before. But it was like 4 AM and I couldn't find anyone else's example. But the point still stands. The bulk of Bioware characters are very generic.

Also the article calling Mission Vao a 'hottie' is really really weird considering she is 13 years old in KOTOR and looks/acts it.

There's one here on The Escapist.

Not sure if you would say it's better or not though.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/6862-The-Writers-of-BioWare

 

[The_Lost_King]

One thing I think you're misunderstanding, is the difference between generic and one dimensional. Bioware characters are not one dimensional at all; and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that they are. One dimensional characters are characters that are all surface. Gordon Freeman is heroic, brave, smart, talented. But he is one dimensional because that is all he is. He doesn't have complex motivations or problems. He isn't conflicted. He doesn't even struggle to be the things that he is, or have to learn to be them.

Bioware characters are anything but that. They always have a backstory to who they are, they have reasons for being who they are, and they change as people. The problem with them is that they are generic. http://www.gamesradar.com/recycled-characters-you-see-in-every-bioware-game/. Bioware character pretty much always fall into the same arcs and the same general character sets. One dimensional they ain't, generic they is. Using generic characters isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is that Bioware always uses the same types of generic characters where other developer studios are more willing to mix and match or create less overused generic characters.

If I had to pick a character that I liked the most I would probably have to go with Jolee Bindo. I have a soft spot in my heart for flippant nonconformists.

This may be because Bioware has made some of my favorite games ever but I found a lot of points in that article plain wrong.

Awkward Hottie: Whats her face twilek girl is actually very good in society and you couldn't bang her. Liara started as that but in me2 is not that at all.

Aggressive Psychopath: Canderous Ordo is like the first part of the paragraph, but he never calls you weak or threatens you. Grunt is the same as Canderous, except he does threaten you, once.

Honorbound psychotic: I was never interested in those characters so I never got to know them. Thane Krios wasn't exactly that though...

You have me completely on the Grey Sludge.

Useless Mentor: Duncan is the only one who fits, then they grouped in Jolee Bindo and Admiral Anderson. Jolee is actually in your party so yeah. Admiral Anderson is no where near useless in anything other than a gameplay point but.

The Recalcitrant Shrew: well yeah. I hated those characters.

The Kickass Robot: I can only argue on the legion front. Legion isn't in that group at all other than the fact that he is a robot.

Also the Article left out a lot of Bioware's characters. They didn't have any of my favorites other than Legion who didn't fit at all. Though just to be fair, the didn't add a total bro category which 2 of the characters somewhat are, though they define themselves in other ways(Space Batman!).

 

[DoPo]

I thought that article you linked was pretty interesting, but, ironically enough, very one-dimensional.

Yeah I've seen it done a lot better before. But it was like 4 AM and I couldn't find anyone else's example. But the point still stands. The bulk of Bioware characters are very generic.

Also the article calling Mission Vao a 'hottie' is really really weird considering she is 13 years old in KOTOR and looks/acts it.

There is also one on Cracked [http://www.cracked.com/funny-3872-bioware/].

Yeah, I agree - the characters are rather generic. At least generic for BioWare. Heck, their roles are also reused.