BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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@BaronIveagh
Functioning as DRM =/= being DRM. I can make something functions as a car would but that doesn't make it a car.
@El Luck
The special edition also has
-The N7 arsenal pack
-Robot dog in-game companion
-Squad-mate alternate appearance DLC
-A N7 hoodie
-the Prothean DLC
-A 70 page artbook
-A limited edition copy of Mass Effect: Invasion with unique cover art
-A premium N7 fabric patch.
-Exclusive 4x6 lithographic print featuring a one-of-a-kind piece of artwork of the SR-2 Alliance Normandy.
-Free digital soundtrack.
-An Xbox LIVE Normandy prop for your Avatar. (Xbox 360 Only)
-A collection of forum and social badges, avatars, and perks.
-A premium metal case featuring commemorative artwork of both male and female versions of Commander Shepard.
Functioning as DRM =/= being DRM. I can make something functions as a car would but that doesn't make it a car.
@El Luck
The special edition also has
-The N7 arsenal pack
-Robot dog in-game companion
-Squad-mate alternate appearance DLC
-A N7 hoodie
-the Prothean DLC
-A 70 page artbook
-A limited edition copy of Mass Effect: Invasion with unique cover art
-A premium N7 fabric patch.
-Exclusive 4x6 lithographic print featuring a one-of-a-kind piece of artwork of the SR-2 Alliance Normandy.
-Free digital soundtrack.
-An Xbox LIVE Normandy prop for your Avatar. (Xbox 360 Only)
-A collection of forum and social badges, avatars, and perks.
-A premium metal case featuring commemorative artwork of both male and female versions of Commander Shepard.
Actually, under the law, there is no difference. Either in the case of the car nor in the case of DRM. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's probably not a chicken.SajuukKhar said:
In this case (of the ME3 DLC) backlash comes for a couple of reasons - which makes it different then what we've seen from other DLC in the past.
1) The perceived content that was cut, or "held back" for DLC. It just not some random squad member of an already known race; its something much bigger, much more important then that. His over all role may be nothing, but it's what he is and what he stands for (lore wise) that is too big not to be included in the main game. Or if you look at it another way, unlocking him to be a squad member is going to cost you $10.
"Shepard, for $10 I will join your squad and help you defeat the Reapers!"
He's already in the game, he just should already be a squad member. Zaeed wasn't on Omega taunting to drop $10 so you could bring him on board.
The bonus mission that comes with the DLC I'm on the fence about.
2) The fact that this day-one DLC is not free DLC for a buyer of any new game, but costs money to people who didn't get (or can't get) a collectors edition at a price of $10. Is a extra character, a mission, extra weapon and alternate armor skins for all your squad members worth dropping another $10? Look at you are getting out of the game for $60, and then look what you are going to get for $10. That better be one hell of a fucking huge mission. The price point for this DLC, with the information we have right now, seems too arbitrarily high; and having learned our lessons from the previous shenanigans from EA(/Bioware) in general, this just seems like another even more brazen attempt to get gamers to shell out more money for less content.
Yes the DLC isn't out yet, thus we haven't had the time to break it down piece by piece yet and this content may be well worth $10, but maybe it just isn't.
I just feel that if EA/Bioware wanted to sell this for a price, they should have tested the waters at $2/$3 instead of $10. Free for all new copies would have been even better... but that's just my "entitlement" of not wanting to be ripped off enjoying my hobby talking.
---------------------------------
Another thing.. that stupid graph that's floating about:
I'm not saying that graph is 100% wrong, but it only implies that every developed Day-One DLC is logically thought and planned out from the very start.
In the very chaotic world of programming, never once has an intended feature cut from a game to meet a required deadline, only to be repackaged and sold as a day one DLC.
DLC can be anything from some the required programming and scripts, using all the artwork and sound bites already in the core game, or have entirely its own artwork and sound, along with the required programming and scripts.
Some DLC is created after the core game is completed with objects yet not created by the core development team and some DLC feels like its just the scraps of junk that got cut during the opening development/planning phase (ME2 weapon packs).
And not all DLC is created from pure scrap from a side team, they use a lot of passed on items that did not meet the original cut.
Some DLC is... but most isn't. Cost saving - as you understand. The less stuff they have to come up on their own, the smaller the team and the quicker they can get it done.
"Hey Frank, do you still have all those 3d renders of all the weapons you submitted for review?" -- "Yea, I do.. why do you ask" -- "Send them over to Steve, he's going to use a couple of cut ones for new DLC weapons."
"Hey Bob, How complete are those maps that weren't selected for final polishing to be used." -- "I'd day between 3/4 done. Just some texture sewing/fixing, checking for gaps or spots where somebody could get stuck in.." -- "Great, Alice is heading up the DLC crew, send them over to her team so they can polish them up for the next DLC."
---------------------
I hate that I'm allowing this practice to continue (or being complacent to it) as I'm a collectors edition buyer; as all I thought I was getting was a few extra weapons, extra armor skins and a lot fan related physical material. Not cut content that "normal" editions have to pay for if they want it.
1) The perceived content that was cut, or "held back" for DLC. It just not some random squad member of an already known race; its something much bigger, much more important then that. His over all role may be nothing, but it's what he is and what he stands for (lore wise) that is too big not to be included in the main game. Or if you look at it another way, unlocking him to be a squad member is going to cost you $10.
"Shepard, for $10 I will join your squad and help you defeat the Reapers!"
He's already in the game, he just should already be a squad member. Zaeed wasn't on Omega taunting to drop $10 so you could bring him on board.
The bonus mission that comes with the DLC I'm on the fence about.
2) The fact that this day-one DLC is not free DLC for a buyer of any new game, but costs money to people who didn't get (or can't get) a collectors edition at a price of $10. Is a extra character, a mission, extra weapon and alternate armor skins for all your squad members worth dropping another $10? Look at you are getting out of the game for $60, and then look what you are going to get for $10. That better be one hell of a fucking huge mission. The price point for this DLC, with the information we have right now, seems too arbitrarily high; and having learned our lessons from the previous shenanigans from EA(/Bioware) in general, this just seems like another even more brazen attempt to get gamers to shell out more money for less content.
Yes the DLC isn't out yet, thus we haven't had the time to break it down piece by piece yet and this content may be well worth $10, but maybe it just isn't.
I just feel that if EA/Bioware wanted to sell this for a price, they should have tested the waters at $2/$3 instead of $10. Free for all new copies would have been even better... but that's just my "entitlement" of not wanting to be ripped off enjoying my hobby talking.
---------------------------------
Another thing.. that stupid graph that's floating about:
I'm not saying that graph is 100% wrong, but it only implies that every developed Day-One DLC is logically thought and planned out from the very start.
In the very chaotic world of programming, never once has an intended feature cut from a game to meet a required deadline, only to be repackaged and sold as a day one DLC.
DLC can be anything from some the required programming and scripts, using all the artwork and sound bites already in the core game, or have entirely its own artwork and sound, along with the required programming and scripts.
Some DLC is created after the core game is completed with objects yet not created by the core development team and some DLC feels like its just the scraps of junk that got cut during the opening development/planning phase (ME2 weapon packs).
And not all DLC is created from pure scrap from a side team, they use a lot of passed on items that did not meet the original cut.
Some DLC is... but most isn't. Cost saving - as you understand. The less stuff they have to come up on their own, the smaller the team and the quicker they can get it done.
"Hey Frank, do you still have all those 3d renders of all the weapons you submitted for review?" -- "Yea, I do.. why do you ask" -- "Send them over to Steve, he's going to use a couple of cut ones for new DLC weapons."
"Hey Bob, How complete are those maps that weren't selected for final polishing to be used." -- "I'd day between 3/4 done. Just some texture sewing/fixing, checking for gaps or spots where somebody could get stuck in.." -- "Great, Alice is heading up the DLC crew, send them over to her team so they can polish them up for the next DLC."
---------------------
I hate that I'm allowing this practice to continue (or being complacent to it) as I'm a collectors edition buyer; as all I thought I was getting was a few extra weapons, extra armor skins and a lot fan related physical material. Not cut content that "normal" editions have to pay for if they want it.
I'm, sure both Valve and EA could come up with some legal reason as to why their respective services are not REALLY DRM, they just do similar functions to DRM.BaronIveagh said:
WOO 39 pages now, its posts like this that make me want to delete my account. March 6th can't come soon enough...
when march 6th comes people will be complaining thatSweetLiquidSnake said:
Mass Effect 3 = Gears of war
Mass Effect 3 has less RPG features then ME2
That Mass Effect 3's plot makes no sense
That ME3 HAD no plot
That Bioware FORCES you into relationships
that no plot choices carried over
Etc. etc.
Which are all various levels of BS.
Wait.. you hate that.. on a game based website.. people are being passionate about an issue they feel strongly passionate about, on a game based website?SweetLiquidSnake said:
"man due, I hate that all these people that come to this bar just to drink beer and hang out with friends, it just make me want to stop coming here."
I find Origin's account access to be flimsy personally.animehermit said:
I love Steam guard and it sending you a email to make SURE it is you loging in on a new computer. If I am going to have hundreds of dollars worth of games tied to one thing I want to make sure my account is safe.
also you can turn it off.
Well congratulations people, this thread is now one of the hottest threads of the year, we let ourselves get this worked up over a single 10$ DLC.
Should we wait to get outraged when Day-One DLC is $20... $30... $40?erttheking said:
Oh great king, please tell us, when will it be acceptable to get "worked up over"?
I mean, I have plenty of expendable income to buy games, but I'm not sure that I'm absolutely ready to hand over a couple hundred dollars just because the publisher says that's how much a single game is worth.
Not that we are there yet, but if we "shouldn't" voice our opinion at $10, when will we be able too?
You should only get mad at DLC if it is content NEEDED to get a complete game. All evidence points to this not being case.
Getting mad over Fallout 3:Broken Steel is ok because it was them selling you the ending to the game.
Getting mad over Fallout 3:Broken Steel is ok because it was them selling you the ending to the game.
Again.. how do you defend "the ending of the game". Granted the original was bland/pointless and somewhat - "huh, thats stupid", and that Broken Steel had a "better that's a real ending". But both were "endings". Arguably, the first ending is still the real ending as the game was 1) finding your father and 2) restarting the project. Broken Steel just added 3) stopping the Enclave; which was more of a side project - not the main quest.SajuukKhar said:
Just because one ending was better, doesn't mean that the other lesser ending wasn't the real ending.
Your ending of game requirement may be just as important to somebody elses included characters and lore. Are you "infallibly" right and they "entitlemented" wrong on the issue.
You are aware Broken Steele was made because NO ONE like the ending and Bethesda said they would make a better one because even they realized the original ending sucked?
If its something so bad that even they have to admit they screwed up, it should be free.
If its something so bad that even they have to admit they screwed up, it should be free.
That we understand, but everybody has a different comfortable price point. Some people are comfortable up to $5, unless its a really big expansion, others are comfortable up to $10..$15.animehermit said:
Nobody can say getting worked up over $10 is trivial and childish. Is $15 trivial? Is $20 trivial.
Everybody has a different breaking point. Just because many people find $10 uncomfortable and you may not doesn't make those people wrong.
How about when it's actually needed to get the full story and experience, how is that? Assassin's creed two actually crossed this line, taking out sequence 13 and 14 (I think those were the ones), ME3 has not.Murmillos said:
I am fully aware of it. But that doesn't change the argument. A replacement ending DLC just because the first one sucked doesn't get it any more right to be "free" over a cut/held-back squad mate.SajuukKhar said:
If Broken Steel should have been free, then so should From Ashes* to all new copies of the game.
*fixed
1. It's From Ashes, From Dust is a civilization/world building game
2. Lacking the from Ash's DLC isn't gonna cause a detriment to the games story.
2. Lacking the from Ash's DLC isn't gonna cause a detriment to the games story.
I agree with you there. And just as you every easily pointed out, we have had content cut from games in the past to be sold from DLC later to get a more "full story and experience". And until From Ashes comes out to prove us right or wrong, many people are afraid that THIS DLC will be taking out important story elements and experience.erttheking said:
We've seen this very event happen in the past from lesser developers; so why is it a big deal people are worried that they are about to see it happen again from a company they have trusted in the past, but has started to shown its more willing to be used as EA money making slut, then holding up to their own principles of excellence toward gamers?