BioWare Dev Explains Why Dragon Age II Is Easier Than Origins

thenamelessloser

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Jan 15, 2010
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I couldn't get into Dragon Age Origins really on difficulties harder for normal (I play the Xbox 360 verison) But this may change for because console version of Dragon Age 2 has at least two advantages over the console Dragon Age Origin gameplay wise. You can pause without holding down the button in combat while selecting an action for each party member. (if you choose to have the pause work without holding in Dragon Age Origins when you chose an action, it automatically left the pause screen). You can actually choose where to move the characters while being paused. If Dragon Age 2 has an option where you don't have to keep pressing A, the combat for consoles will be SUPERIOR to the first one. (note this only applies to the console versions, in the PC versions it seems like they made it worse by taking away things such as the Isometric view)

I don't think, I would mind normal on Dragon Age 2 being easier, but hopefully, Dragon Age 2 has Nightmare being as hard as it was in Dragon Age Origins for the more "hardcore" RPG fans. But I think with the improved gameplay (for consoles) as I typed about above, I could probably play Dragon Age 2 on whatever would be equivalent of hard was in Dragon Age Origins.
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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SageRuffin said:
Observation: Jesus! I am literally the only one who thinks this way so far. This almost makes wonder what you guys think about games like DMC and the current gen Ninja Gaiden games.
Allow me to back you up then. I found Origins unbearably difficult, and relished putting it on casual. I fought long and hard, but Orzammar finally broke me. (It's that stupid long bridge that finally did it.) I spent almost every fight basically needing to chug healing poultices (AND WHY DO I DRINK A POULTICE?) and finally just couldn't stand it.

That said, yeah, the reason why I found it so hard is that it's a tactical RPG, and I went in trying to play it like Mass Effect or (more accurately) Knights of the Old Republic; focusing mainly on my created character and occasionally giving some orders to the others. Played that way, it's impossible to advance.

As an aside? I think the DA2 demo is too hard. As a rogue, and as a warrior, I got nearly obliterated by the ogre. I find it still too difficult.
 

Fr]anc[is

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May 13, 2010
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Everybody just calm the hell down. At the end of the day, nobody gives a shit if some random internet person thinks Baldur's Gate was harder or if you could solo DA:O on nightmare or if you thought it was hard. If you're just here leaving your opinion with no rage then this isn't for you. But the people working themselves into a tizzy are accomplishing nothing but getting themselves angry and possibly annoying someone else. Video games are about having fun. If easy mode isn't fun for you, then turn it up and be challenged. If hard mode is hair-pullingly frustrating, turn it down. Getting angry isn't fun, and we spend too much of our hard earned money to hate console gamers or pc elitists or whatever and spoil your own fun. Nobody's probably going to read this but whatever. Just to be clear I'm targeting nobody specific with this, there has just been so much DA2 hate all over the Escapist it's just getting old.
 

dubious_wolf

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Jun 4, 2009
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Well fuck...
There goes the neighborhood.

(in all honesty the learning curve on DA:O is the intro mission it took me around 2 hours to blow through that preliminary stuff. Once i had a feel for the combat and such I just rebuilt a new character and started over. I have done this with 90% of the RPGs I have played. My first character build is rarely the character I finish a game with.)
 

spartan231490

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This is me, being incredibly disappointed in you bioware. Normal wasn't hard in origins. Hard wasn't hard in origins I could easily destroy a hard mode playthrough, but nightmare is impossible. If you were going to change the difficulty, you should have added one between hard and nightmare, and moved the default to the current hard setting. This. Is. Retarded.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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granted i am a bit more experienced so normal was easy besides the occasional blood mage, the game for someone who was new to rpg's or whatever was definitely a pain in the ass, so i can see why they did this, and personally i'm not a fan of overly challenging games, i like to enjoy the game, not die 6 times on some guy who is not even a boss that is completely random.

still, hopefully they mean it when nightmare mode truly is a nightmare for some people, because i have noticed quite a few people loving to show off that big E-peen of theirs about doing "hard" stuff.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Sovvolf said:
Zhukov said:
Waaah!

They're dumbing it down! Even newcomers will be able to beat it! People who have never played games before will start thinking they are my equal or something! All those years acquiring the skills to beat games and now they go and undermine me by releasing crap that my mum could beat! I'm so hardcorz that I beat Origins on nightmare while blindfolded on my first go with no casualties! This is going to be terrible, it's Invisible War all over again.

Oh woe is me...
Tut, having to use your hands to play games. Why don't you start playing like the real gamers and use only you nose, tongue and eyebrows.
OH RLY?



WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO TOUCH THE CONTROLLER! real gamers, bah, we use these

 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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lightning38 said:
Greg Tito said:
"To me, that's a fair expectation for 'normal,' it presents the player with difficulty to keep them interested but without it being frustrating and fist punching our controllers."
is there really any other kind of punching?
 

Sovvolf

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Slycne said:
I have been playing Orgins on hard to make it a more fulling experience and I was disappointed when I couldn't adjust the difficulty on the Dragon Age II demo when I noticed I hadn't needed to even touch potions.

However, I'm also aware enough to understand that my single experience does not a overall total make. Everyone who is posting to the effect of "I didn't think it was hard" should try and understand that as well. Gamers are not a single entity and neither you or I represent everyone.

So as long as high difficulty options are available(I really hope friendly fire isn't gone on higher levels too), I'm sure I'll still have fun with it.
I was trying to make this point but I honestly doubt anyone really pays attention to my opinion. Maybe you'll have better luck with it. My point as been that, difficulty is relative to the player. What is easy as pie for you isn't going to be the same for someone else. Specially for someone who is new to the genre who might have difficulty getting into it until they've had a few tries.

I don't see what everyone is so upset about, most of them who keep throwing out "Baldurs Gate was harder (though I'm honestly struggling to see how a hard game from the late nineties to early naughties has relevance to a video game in 2011) will more than likely be playing it on hard mode or nightmare mode anyway, so whats the problem? Ho yeah, none-rpg gamers might be able to pick it up and play it and we don't want noobs being able to play our games.
 

Azaraxzealot

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Dec 1, 2009
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cue the elitist masochistic fanboys who think their game is "ruined" because it's made so more people can enjoy it

EDIT: Too late.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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Scars Unseen said:
Seriously, people. Was it really that difficult?
Yes, normal is way too difficult to be called normal. Example: I started my play through on casual because with pretty much every game I play I start on the easiest setting to get the lay of the land and how things work, and then I play on the higher difficulties on my play-throughs after.

Well, I was cruising through and doing everything easily. Then I went to a friends house with my box and was playing it there when I noticed that some of the small enemy mobs were being bizarrely difficult especially on casual. It was feeling more like it was on hard. Then I got to do Lillian's loyalty quest where I fight her mentor or whatever that woman was. I got into battle with her and her two henchmen, and I kept losing over and over again. After about 15 or 16 tries, my friend told me to check the difficulty setting. I did and for some reason the difficulty had changed back to the default, normal. 15 to 16 retries on a battle that is only a few hours into a game is not normal, that is hard. When it comes to difficulty in single encounters in a game, it is universal. I have played hundreds of games in my time and DA has the hardest normal setting I have ever encountered.

Over the years here is the scale I use when it comes to deciding the difficulty level of a game.

Let's use the DA names for difficulty in this as well, and this is how the difficulty should have been.
Casual: 0 retries. 1 if the player wasn't paying attention for some reason.
Normal: 2 to 5 depending on the players skill level.
Hard: 10 to 15
Nightmare: Good luck, you will beat it when you beat it, just keep telling yourself it is a matter of time.

Scars Unseen said:
Just out of curiosity, what would easy difficulty be for in that case?
Easy difficulty, or casual in the case of DA, should be for people that have never played such a game before, they need a difficulty that they can learn the ropes where they can do things like learn how to command characters at once and organize, without having to use health potions every 5 seconds. Normal is for the people that have played such games, but want to learn how the new game is different.

The settings on DA are out of whack. Casual is Normal, Normal is Hard, Hard is Ultra Hard, and Nightmare is Extremely Hard.

I find it bizarre how many health potions I go through on casual. On casual I should be going through maybe one a battle, possibly none in some encounters. I made 50 of them before I started doing the quests in Lothering and after that and a couple in Denerim, 6 or 7 encounters, I found that I had used 20.

In properly constructed difficulty scale, in no way should I be saying few hours in on the easiest setting, "I've used almost half my health potions, I hope I can find more ingredients to make more soon."

Sovvolf said:
Me'h I thought the dialog system is an improvement over the last games which seemed a little dated to me. I'd rather they have a voice, I think it makes the character and the story engaging than reading the text boxes.

Though to each their own.
I'm glad that they put in the dialog system that they had for Mass Effect.

With DA, I was looking at the usually 5 text choices to use for answers, and most of the time I sat for 3 minutes at least decided what answers were good answers and which were bad. It is the reason my first play through of the game has felt excruciating, because conversations were breaking the flow of play and my ability to easily pay attention to the story.

With ME, the dialog wheel makes it so I know what choices are good and what are bad, considering on all first play-throughs on RPGs, I want to play the nice guy. I only had to take 10 seconds at most to make my decisions on the dialog and I could pay more attention to the story.

With DA, 12 hours in a week is about as much as I could stand, and that barely got me out of Lothering and a few quests into Denerim, which was around 15 or so completed quests.

With ME, I was playing 5 hours in a sitting(just graduated from college and haven't found a job yet), 35 hours in a week. I had gotten through around a 3rd of the game. Some might say that is a high hour count for only a third of the game completed, but I one of those people that has to talk to ever single person and check ever nook and cranny of each area to see if I haven't missed anything. But, with the way ME is set up, it doesn't make my OCD-ness with such games feel like a chore. DA, feels almost unbearable with that mentality.
 

Scars Unseen

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Sonic Doctor said:
Scars Unseen said:
Just out of curiosity, what would easy difficulty be for in that case?
Easy difficulty, or casual in the case of DA, should be for people that have never played such a game before, they need a difficulty that they can learn the ropes where they can do things like learn how to command characters at once and organize, without having to use health potions every 5 seconds. Normal is for the people that have played such games, but want to learn how the new game is different.

The settings on DA are out of whack. Casual is Normal, Normal is Hard, Hard is Ultra Hard, and Nightmare is Extremely Hard.
But here's the thing. If a player has never played this type of game before, why would they learn how to command party members when the game lets them succeed just fine without it? We learn when circumstance requires us to adapt. According to what Bioware is saying, not even normal difficulty will require the player to learn the the core game mechanics.

I don't really care either way. I'll just turn up the difficulty. I just question the logic of making normal difficulty easy. That's what easy is for.
 

MetallicaRulez0

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I had a few spots in Origins where I thought it was slightly too difficult on 'Normal', but it definitely wasn't too hard overall. Some of the stuff towards the beginning especially, because you had limited healing abilities, or you couldn't afford potions, things of that nature. Once you had a solid party with 2-3 Mages, the game was rather easy.
 

Megacherv

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JeanLuc761 said:
Megacherv said:
Oi, Bioware, explain to me how on the demo you're supposed to kill loads of darkspawn and a ogre when you're level 2 and without a healer!
The reason for that is a little subtle. That part of the game is heavily exaggerated to make Hawke an unstoppable badass, and it's being exaggerated because of the dwarf telling the story. You notice that after that segment how Hawke is much weaker and lost most of his/her abilities? That's because the Dwarf began telling the TRUE story.
Oh no, I understand that and see why they did it.

But seriously

Fucking difficult, it seemed like a 'supposed-to-lose' fight
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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Scars Unseen said:
Sonic Doctor said:
Easy difficulty, or casual in the case of DA, should be for people that have never played such a game before, they need a difficulty that they can learn the ropes where they can do things like learn how to command characters at once and organize, without having to use health potions every 5 seconds. Normal is for the people that have played such games, but want to learn how the new game is different.

The settings on DA are out of whack. Casual is Normal, Normal is Hard, Hard is Ultra Hard, and Nightmare is Extremely Hard.
But here's the thing. If a player has never played this type of game before, why would they learn how to command party members when the game lets them succeed just fine without it? We learn when circumstance requires us to adapt. According to what Bioware is saying, not even normal difficulty will require the player to learn the the core game mechanics.

I don't really care either way. I'll just turn up the difficulty. I just question the logic of making normal difficulty easy. That's what easy is for.
Not everybody does this, but whenever I enter into playing a new type of game, I read up on how said game can be played. If I was new to the DA style of RPGs, I would have looked it up and found out that people use strategy to tackle certain challenges, so I would use casual a proper casual mode since I would be new to that type of game to learn what possible strategies I could use.

DA's normal mode definitely doesn't allow for that kind of learning, before I could even size up some of the enemies and develop a strategy, half the life on all my characters was gone. Then I wasn't able to have the time to issue commands because I had to go to each team member and have them take a health potion. I had set it to automatic for them to take a health potions if they got to half health, but 9 times out of 10 the auto-command for that never triggered before they were dead.

I think BioWare really misjudged the difficulty of normal and that is why they are changing it.

In reality, what you are questioning isn't making normal easy, you are questioning why they are making normal normal. I'm no stranger to RPGs, but DA's normal was hard mode labeled normal.

BioWare is just making normal normal again.

When it comes to difficulties. I look at all games the same way, because I count how many retries it takes to complete things.

Let's look at Halo Reach. Yes it is a totally different genre and it is worlds apart compared to the complexity of DA, but we are only discussing difficulty.

With Reach, I skipped easy because I had played Halo games before, and I went to normal. I was able to get things done with maybe a couple or three deaths. No biggie, I was able to play through without many aaargh beat my head into the controller moments, if I remember correctly I didn't get that feeling but maybe once.

With DA on normal, I died and had to retry over 15 times on one little encounter that shouldn't have meant too much since it was so early on in the game.

Levels of proper difficulty cover all genres and game types, especially when considering players like myself who have played pretty much every genre that has come to light since the NES and old school PC gaming.

But as you said, you are just going to turn up the difficulty. The only possibility you would have to complain is if BioWare didn't include any higher difficulties than casual and normal in DA2.

And of course there will be higher difficulties, so really, there is now reason to complain. Complaining from such an angle sounds elitist, like, "Why should we give accessibility to casual gamers or people that have never played this type of game before. These are our games and the difficulties should only be based around people that know these types of games."
 

Aurgelmir

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Nov 11, 2009
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I see a lot of people saying "Normal Mode" shouldn't be easy, and that it should give you a challenge. But you are wrong.

If a game has:
Casual
Normal
Hard
Nightmare
then shouldn't Normal actually be a fun play through, without being an amazing challenge, but give you something to ponder... for "normal" players. That players who don't sit for 5 hours making the perfect build.
Casual should be a cake walk for anyone, even your grandmother.

Hard and Nightmare is where you go if you want a challenge. And Nightmare should honestly punish people that don't know how to play.
 

Loonerinoes

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You know what's funny? Hearing from all kinds of peeps on the Escapist say that Origins was usually 'too hard' on Nightmare whereas ME2 was 'too easy' on Insanity. Because for me...it was the exact opposite!

So I guess I dunno much about how this peice of news will impact it, mainly because I also hear the combat system as a whole having been revamped. Still need to get the demo though so...nm. Just find it interesting where most people find the whole shooter routine easier these days whereas I find the whole 'outfitting your party with the best gear, thinking a bit through the tactics I'll use and then just unleashing them to kick arse' a lot easier myself. :S
 

Scars Unseen

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I'm not really complaining, for reasons that both you and I have pointed out: I'm just going to play on a higher difficulty anyway. For me this is just a discussion. I have no real stake in the matter.

I think that one of the big reasons that I feel the way I do about this game is that it was advertised as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Now I personally don't feel that it really lived up to that claim (I hold BG2 on something of a pedestal, so YMMV), but I do like the way that party management was required to succeed, much like in the Infinity Engine games. Well, until you get more tactics slots and the NPCs work without a whole lot of input, anyway.

I get that normal in DA:O was a bit much for some people. But was the "casual" difficulty overwhelming for anyone? Because if everyone could play with no problem on casual, and normal in DA2 is going to be more or less the same thing, then what is easy going to be? Narcolepsy mode? Or is this just a pride thing where people just can't stand being forced to play on the easiest setting? I don't know.
 

Spencer Petersen

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Apr 3, 2010
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I just wish I could have had the option to turn off friendly fire in the first game, at least make it different than the regular difficulty setting.