Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

[SajuukKhar]

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

How is telling you that galactic civilization will now be able to exist on its own strengths and will be able to go down its own path instead of one chosen for them, which was the entire point of the series, not closure?

Your not making a lick of sense.


Also this ending was predictable from game 1. The first time playing through Mass Effect 1 and having the speach on Virmire with Sovereign were he said "my kind built the relays and the citadel to control evolution" it was made blatantly obvious that the game would end with them being destroyed.

If you didn't catch that then you either
A. weren't paying much attention
B. don't understand how story progression works.

If you couldn't guess that a series about machines who control technological evolution with a specific technology would end with said technology being destroyed then... I really don't know what to say.

 

[Fappy]

Has anyone actually be paying attention to the BSN since this thread started? Its turned into a virtual riot. Apparently two mega-threads discussing the awfulness of the endings were moved from the Story discussion to a less-popular forum titled "Gameplay, Strategy & Builds Discussion" and people are flipping out with conspiracy theories. Bioware fans are known for their vocalness... but this... this is the biggest fit of fan-rage I have ever seen come out that community by a long shot.

Well hey, only good can come from this I guess. Maybe they will ***** enough to warrant new endings (there is a poll with like 4,000 people asking for a new ending). I'd happily accept new endings considering this is the last game I will likely ever purchase from Bioware. I used to buy their games for the story. As it turns out they are not very good at that anymore. Guess I have to look elsewhere.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Has anyone actually be paying attention to the BSN since this thread started? Its turned into a virtual riot. Apparently two mega-threads discussing the awfulness of the endings were moved from the Story discussion to a less-popular forum titled "Gameplay, Strategy & Builds Discussion" and people are flipping out with conspiracy theories. Bioware fans are known for their vocalness... but this... this is the biggest fit of fan-rage I have ever seen come out that community by a long shot.

Well hey, only good can come from this I guess. Maybe they will ***** enough to warrant new endings (there is a poll with like 4,000 people asking for a new ending). I'd happily accept new endings considering this is the last game I will likely ever purchase from Bioware. I used to buy their games for the story. As it turns out they are not very good at that anymore. Guess I have to look elsewhere.

What I find sad is that people couldn't imagine that

"A game about a race of machines who control technological and societal evolution with technology would end with said technology that they use to control evolution being destroyed."

They are so blinded by wanting to ride off into the sunset with their space waifus that they missed the brutally obviousness that this was how the series was always going to end.

 

[Drewmeister11]

Has anyone actually be paying attention to the BSN since this thread started? Its turned into a virtual riot. Apparently two mega-threads discussing the awfulness of the endings were moved from the Story discussion to a less-popular forum titled "Gameplay, Strategy & Builds Discussion" and people are flipping out with conspiracy theories. Bioware fans are known for their vocalness... but this... this is the biggest fit of fan-rage I have ever seen come out that community by a long shot.

Well hey, only good can come from this I guess. Maybe they will ***** enough to warrant new endings (there is a poll with like 4,000 people asking for a new ending). I'd happily accept new endings considering this is the last game I will likely ever purchase from Bioware. I used to buy their games for the story. As it turns out they are not very good at that anymore. Guess I have to look elsewhere.

If 99% of the games story has me emotionally invested and determined to know what will happen next, I wouldn't say it's 'Bad' storytelling. I was genuinely concerned about what was going to happen, I had several scenes that really teared me up, and it was a beautiful game... until that last not-even-10-minutes bit. Yeah, it feels like it really missed the point of the series, but Bioware has shown for the entire rest of the game it knows how to tell a story.

I suppose that confuses me even more though, since they KNOW how to tell one, but just really f**ked it up when it mattered most.

 

[Fappy]

Has anyone actually be paying attention to the BSN since this thread started? Its turned into a virtual riot. Apparently two mega-threads discussing the awfulness of the endings were moved from the Story discussion to a less-popular forum titled "Gameplay, Strategy & Builds Discussion" and people are flipping out with conspiracy theories. Bioware fans are known for their vocalness... but this... this is the biggest fit of fan-rage I have ever seen come out that community by a long shot.

Well hey, only good can come from this I guess. Maybe they will ***** enough to warrant new endings (there is a poll with like 4,000 people asking for a new ending). I'd happily accept new endings considering this is the last game I will likely ever purchase from Bioware. I used to buy their games for the story. As it turns out they are not very good at that anymore. Guess I have to look elsewhere.

If 99% of the games story has me emotionally invested and determined to know what will happen next, I wouldn't say it's 'Bad' storytelling. I was genuinely concerned about what was going to happen, I had several scenes that really teared me up, and it was a beautiful game... until that last not-even-10-minutes bit. Yeah, it feels like it really missed the point of the series, but Bioware has shown for the entire rest of the game it knows how to tell a story.

I suppose that confuses me even more though, since they KNOW how to tell one, but just really f**ked it up when it mattered most.

I suppose I did not elaborate enough. The ending is one of, if not the most important aspect of a narrative. The ending is what people remember. What happens in the ending is what people take away from the story (in most cases). Bioware set up a magnificent setting with a compelling journey that ultimately amounts to disappointment. I don't want to invest myself in a story if there is no payoff.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I suppose I did not elaborate enough. The ending is one of, if not the most important aspect of a narrative. The ending is what people remember. What happens in the ending is what people take away from the story (in most cases). Bioware set up a magnificent setting with a compelling journey that ultimately amounts to disappointment. I don't want to invest myself in a story if there is no payoff.

No story has been about the ending, because endings are ALWAYS predictable, it was always about the journey there.

Lord of the Rings isn't good because of its ending, neither is Harry Potter, or Blade runner, or star wars.

Its always been about the things before the ending.

 

[Fappy]

I suppose I did not elaborate enough. The ending is one of, if not the most important aspect of a narrative. The ending is what people remember. What happens in the ending is what people take away from the story (in most cases). Bioware set up a magnificent setting with a compelling journey that ultimately amounts to disappointment. I don't want to invest myself in a story if there is no payoff.

No story has been about the ending, because endings are ALWAYS predictable, it was always about the journey there.

Lord of the Rings isn't good because of its ending, neither is Harry Potter, or Blade runner, or star wars.

Its always been about the things before the ending.

I never said stories are about the ending. I claimed that the endings are the most important piece of the puzzle. They are supposed to wrap up all of the plot threads and hammer in the underlying theme before the credits roll. ME3 didn't do that. It warped the theme of the games up to that point and left us with more questions than answers.

 

[boag]

As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."

You know how the endings might have become berable?

if there was a little cutscene in the end after all the credits and shit that showed the galaxy once again starting up a Galactic Civilization, instead we got an old man talking about the Shepard.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I never said stories are about the ending. I claimed that the endings are the most important piece of the puzzle. They are supposed to wrap up all of the plot threads and hammer in the underlying theme before the credits roll. ME3 didn't do that. It warped the theme of the games up to that point and left us with more questions than answers.

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.

 

[Xpheyel]

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

How is telling you that galactic civilization will now be able to exist on its own strengths and will be able to go down its own path instead of one chosen for them, which was the entire point of the series, not closure?

Your not making a lick of sense.


Also this ending was predictable from game 1. The first time playing through Mass Effect 1 and having the speach on Virmire with Sovereign were he said "my kind built the relays and the citadel to control evolution" it was made blatantly obvious that the game would end with them being destroyed.

Except for forcing everyone to be cyborg? Or controlling the Reapers to get all their technological secrets anyway? Your defense only makes sense for the Destroy ending. The other two are the opposite of the self determination theme you're convinced underlies the other games.

Also, originally, the Citadel was the keystone of their strategy. Once the Protheans underminded control of it and started building their own relays, the Reaper master plan should be screwed to hell.

Destroying the relay network would be a great ending if it actually seemed necessary. Since the Reapers apparently don't need them to cross galactic diameters, they just seem unimportant. Except for awkwardly blowing up the setting at last minute for some reason.

 

[Fappy]

I never said stories are about the ending. I claimed that the endings are the most important piece of the puzzle. They are supposed to wrap up all of the plot threads and hammer in the underlying theme before the credits roll. ME3 didn't do that. It warped the theme of the games up to that point and left us with more questions than answers.

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.

The problem is that the issue presented by the Guardian holds no weight. The only examples of synthetics destroying organics in this cycle were remedied (EDI and the Geth being the primary examples and the Geth never actually wanted to kill their creators) rendering the Guardian's point completely moot. There is no evidence suggesting that the use of Reaper tech leads to synthetics killing organics. The only thing it does is make organics easier to harvest when the Reapers show up.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Except for forcing everyone to be cyborg? Or controlling the Reapers to get all their technological secrets anyway? Your defense only makes sense for the Destroy ending. The other two are the opposite of the self determination theme you're convinced underlies the other games.

Also, originally, the Citadel was the keystone of their strategy. Once the Protheans underminded control of it and started building their own relays, the Reaper master plan should be screwed to hell.

Destroying the relay network would be a great ending if it actually seemed necessary. Since the Reapers apparently don't need them to cross galactic diameters, they just seem unimportant. Except for awkwardly blowing up the setting at last minute for some reason.

They aren't really cyborg, they are beyond both organic and machine. Also that was a choice made by a member of the galactic civilization on behalf of the galactic civilizations. It was a choice that we made for ourselves. Instead of one the Reapers made for us.

As for the control ending at that point the Reapers are now our technology, they are something we fought for and learned ton control, anything we build with them now will be a creation of our own.

The problem is that the issue presented by the Guardian holds no weight. The only examples of synthetics destroying organics in this cycle were remedied (EDI and the Geth being the primary examples and the Geth never actually wanted to kill their creators) rendering the Guardian's point completely moot. There is no evidence suggesting that the use of Reaper tech leads to synthetics killing organics. The only thing it does is make organics easier to harvest when the Reapers show up.

EDI and Geth are but two examples, and those two examples do not provide a consistent pattern, nor do they prove that synthetic life in general can be reasoned with.

If you really think that just because they made peace with the Geth means all possible future synthetic life would be just as accommodating or reasonable then I really have no idea on what to say because..... that is a stretch, and a unreasonable one at that.

 

[SajuukKhar]

This

Yes because a person in the future from the Normandy colony, showing that The Normandy colony was able to grow and survive showing that civilization is continuing to a degree, even without the mass relays, doesn't show that civilization is still going?

contradictory much.

 

[Zac Sands]

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.

I can see your point about the ending not being the most important part but I am sure we can agree that while it is not THE most important part it is still very important.

Yes the game gives a great experience as you go through an epic journey but an ending is not a summary it is a conclusion where story long questions are answered. You want to know that the journey meant something and that you did not go through 100 hours worth of side quests for the last scene to ask:

Would you like a Red, Green, or Blue explosion with the final pointless cut scene?

 

[Fappy]

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.

I can see your point about the ending not being the most important part but I am sure we can agree that while it is not THE most important part it is still very important.

Yes the game gives a great experience as you go through an epic journey but an ending is not a summary it is a conclusion where story long questions are answered. You want to know that the journey meant something and that you did not go through 100 hours worth of side quests for the last scene to ask:

Would you like a Red, Green, or Blue explosion with the final pointless cut scene?

You're quoting the wrong person

 

[Acton Hank]

I never said stories are about the ending. I claimed that the endings are the most important piece of the puzzle. They are supposed to wrap up all of the plot threads and hammer in the underlying theme before the credits roll. ME3 didn't do that. It warped the theme of the games up to that point and left us with more questions than answers.

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.[/quote

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

How is telling you that galactic civilization will now be able to exist on its own strengths and will be able to go down its own path instead of one chosen for them, which was the entire point of the series, not closure?

Your not making a lick of sense.


Also this ending was predictable from game 1. The first time playing through Mass Effect 1 and having the speach on Virmire with Sovereign were he said "my kind built the relays and the citadel to control evolution" it was made blatantly obvious that the game would end with them being destroyed.

If you didn't catch that then you either
A. weren't paying much attention
B. don't understand how story progression works.

If you couldn't guess that a series about machines who control technological evolution with a specific technology would end with said technology being destroyed then... I really don't know what to say.

And if you were paying any attention to what I just wrote you would realise that

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

How is telling you that galactic civilization will now be able to exist on its own strengths and will be able to go down its own path instead of one chosen for them, which was the entire point of the series, not closure?

Your not making a lick of sense.


Also this ending was predictable from game 1. The first time playing through Mass Effect 1 and having the speach on Virmire with Sovereign were he said "my kind built the relays and the citadel to control evolution" it was made blatantly obvious that the game would end with them being destroyed.

If you didn't catch that then you either
A. weren't paying much attention
B. don't understand how story progression works.

If you couldn't guess that a series about machines who control technological evolution with a specific technology would end with said technology being destroyed then... I really don't know what to say.

And how exactly "is galactic civilization going to be able to exist on it's own strenghts" if you chose the control option, which basically means that the reapers are forced to do whatever Shepard tells them to, including rebuilding the Mass Relays, or the Destroy option where organics could examine the remains of the thousands of dead reapers for their technology, and don't get me started on the synthesis option.
How exactly is this going to "free them from the enslavement of reaper tech"?
You're not making a lick of sense.

 

[Zac Sands]

You're quoting the wrong person

Sorry lol I fixed it

 

[Xpheyel]

ending are not the most important part of the puzzle, the middle is, you don't need a ending to understand what would happen as a result of the actions of the middle, but a ending needs the middle to make sense.

A endings only purpose is to summarize the problems of the series and how they were solved.

the ending of Me3 did that exactly, it solved the series main problems, of technological dependance and the reapers killing everything.

I can see your point about the ending not being the most important part but I am sure we can agree that while it is not THE most important part it is still very important.

Yes the game gives a great experience as you go through an epic journey but an ending is not a summary it is a conclusion where story long questions are answered. You want to know that the journey meant something and that you did not go through 100 hours worth of side quests for the last scene to ask:

Would you like a Red, Green, or Blue explosion with the final pointless cut scene?

I wanted a purple explosion. :-(

 

[SajuukKhar]

And how exactly "is galactic civilization going to be able to exist on it's own strenghts" if you chose the control option, which basically means that the reapers are forced to do whatever Shepard tells them to, including rebuilding the Mass Relays, or the Destroy option where organics could examine the remains of the thousands of dead reapers for their technology, and don't get me started on the synthesis option.
How exactly is this going to "free them from the enslavement of reaper tech"?
You're not making a lick of sense.

Because

1. At the point that Shepard controls The Reapers, they become a tool of the galactic civilizations. No longer are they overlords, ruling over us as setting their own path for us, they our devices for us that we can use to make our own path.

The destination of that path might be the same as The Reaper's path, but what matters is that now we are the ones making it for ourselves using our own tools.

It is the same as The Geth making their own dyson sphere, and the heretic Geth being given a body that does the same thing. Both are the same outcomes, but one is down on their own their own, and one is being given to them, it is not the destination that matters but the path we take to reach it.
.
.
.
2. As for the merge ending it is true we would not be doing thing on our own, but the Reapers wouldn't be doing things for us either. With the merge ending "we" as we are stop existing, and become "them", and "they" will use "their" own methods, which would be different from both The Reapers and the normal civilizations, as they are both and neither.

They would be doing things on their own, with their own strength, which is the combined strength of organics and synthetics, the knowledge of both, the reliance on neither.
.
.
.
3. As for the destroy option, yes we could reverse engineer Reaper tech and use it as a basis for future tech, the difference however is that instead of being handed the technology as the mass relays and all technology based off of it were, we have now have the chance to do it ourselves, and make improvements on The Reapers designs, and spread in new directions then the reapers designs.

As it was before we were locked into the Reapers path, unable to advance beyond their plans, now we have a chance to go so mcuh farther and in so many different directions.

 

[zalfy]

The endings make sense..I think what people are fussing over is just the fact that they don't explain how your decisions affected other civilizations after the conclusion. The ending was fine, just no closure on anything that you did to get there.