Bioware's terrible PR/Marketing track record, and where do we go from That Ending

[Elijin]

Whats wrong with the engine?

The flak BF4 is getting is nothing to do with the engine. Its just the same old 'Those are just pre-rendered set pieces running through a scripted event'

Again, whats wrong with the engine?

Jesus, if you must jump on the lets hate Bioware boat, at least pick something remotely relevant.


Heh, captcha says 'Hug me' I do kind of feel that way often reading these forums. So much negativity for the sake of negativity :c

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

But then again, Making a good game isn't exactly an easy thing to do :/ (especially when EA the playerbase is breathing down your neck)

... and willing to jump pounce onto any transgression, real or imaginary, no matter how large or small it is in comparison to everything else.

Yes, making a game is hard enough. Making one when you're walking on eggshells is even harder, since there's no tolerance offered.

Bioware have made it an even tougher job in the future by making the Extended Cut DLC in answer to certain segments of the playerbase going nonlinear over the original ending. That sort of shit just encourages whinging and bitching.

 

[Thoric485]

Expectations for DA3 and pretty much anything BioWare/EA churn out are going to be low, yeah. It's a bed they made for themselves and it's up to them to turn those expectations around.

The Frostbite engine might be a double-edged sword. It looks good, but considering the prolonged lack of info on DA3/C&C beyond their announcement I suspect retooling it to serve other genres hasn't proven easy.

 

[FitScotGaymer]

I am not jumping on the hate bioware band wagon guys. I genuinely am interested in what people think about their PR and marketing skillz or lack thereof lol.

I used the BF4 example as an EXAMPLE to highlight that that they still, after the horrible last year or so, dont seem to have improved and given how the fanbase at large seems to feel about them at this time it feels like something they ought to be putting a real effort into improving. That is how they communicate with the fanbase.

It seems silly to me to highlight the similarities to BF4 in light of this, especially given the fanbases' apparent wariness of spunkgargleweewee and EA/Bioware apparent (real or not) play for the CoD dollars.

I don't claim to be an authority on marketing. I am an average joe like everyone else. But I have never liked Bioware's marketing - its always seemed to me like it was created by a brain dead idiot.
I mean we all remember the "this is the new shit" videos? And the "button=awesome" debacle don't we? And of course everyone here will remember the "speculation for everyone!" thing unto the end of time.

For myself I feel like their Marketing and PR treats people like they only like games that are flashy and impressive (which Bioware games have never really been). To touch upon That Ending slightly, people took it really hard in part because of the terribad marketing and PR that promised (repeatedly) one thing and then what we got was completely different (which is why I believe there is a trust issue there for many) - wether you liked it or not you can't deny it wasn't what they said was coming.
I would like to see them to stop giving us trailers and marketing that amounts to "Oooh! Shinies!" and start giving us something a little more substantive and more directed at the people who are likely to be interested in a game like Dragon Age 3. Even if that means they have to keep us all in the dark about stuff for a bit longer.

Thanks for your perspective guys. It's nice to feel that i'm not the only one who see's the overall problem. But I would ask you all to not be insulting to me or to each other.
This isn't a Bioware Hate Thread, or an ME3 Endings War.
This is about PR, and what would appeal to you guys as gamers and "fans" of Bioware. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Ren_Li]

I... honestly don't know much at ALL about Bioware's marketing. I don't tend to pay much attention to it. If they're releasing a game that I think I'll like, I'll pretty definitely hear about it without the marketing.

It does bug me that all the trailers seems to show white macho men who are seen in some sort of sexy romantic moment with one of the (female, natch) potential love interests and are focused on being warriors or similar with their massive sword. Or massive gun. Or in the case of DA2, massive sword-stick that's used for melee combat much as a warrior would, just with added fire, despite mages in-game having no potential melee specialities.
It's like, "here's a white beefy dude who hits stuff in a kick-ass way and has sex with this sexy chick! Don't you want to play as him?!"

My knee-jerk response is, "no. No I do not." So it's probably a good thing that my experience of their marketing is HIGHLY limited.

I'm still planning on getting DA3 though, so. Whatever.

 

[Doom972]

XCOM: Enemy Unknown used the Unreal 3 engine and Deus Ex: Human Revolution used the Tomb Raider Underworld engine. Using a certain engine is usually for the sake of graphics rendering - which is usually takes a lot of time and resources to develop from scratch, and maybe some other functions.

In this case, it probably means that Bioware wants to make use of its destructible environments - which would be awesome to see implemented in Dragon Age 3. It could even just be a decision of convenience, since EA owns the engine and can let its developers use it for free. Either way, there's no reason to judge a game by its engine.

 

[Elijin]

I am not jumping on the hate bioware band wagon guys. I genuinely am interested in what people think about their PR and marketing skillz or lack thereof lol.

I used the BF4 example as an EXAMPLE to highlight that that they still, after the horrible last year or so, dont seem to have improved and given how the fanbase at large seems to feel about them at this time it feels like something they ought to be putting a real effort into improving. That is how they communicate with the fanbase.

It seems silly to me to highlight the similarities to BF4 in light of this, especially given the fanbases' apparent wariness of spunkgargleweewee and EA/Bioware apparent (real or not) play for the CoD dollars.

I don't claim to be an authority on marketing. I am an average joe like everyone else. But I have never liked Bioware's marketing - its always seemed to me like it was created by a brain dead idiot.
I mean we all remember the "this is the new shit" videos? And the "button=awesome" debacle don't we? And of course everyone here will remember the "speculation for everyone!" thing unto the end of time.

For myself I feel like their Marketing and PR treats people like they only like games that are flashy and impressive (which Bioware games have never really been). To touch upon That Ending slightly, people took it really hard in part because of the terribad marketing and PR that promised (repeatedly) one thing and then what we got was completely different (which is why I believe there is a trust issue there for many) - wether you liked it or not you can't deny it wasn't what they said was coming.
I would like to see them to stop giving us trailers and marketing that amounts to "Oooh! Shinies!" and start giving us something a little more substantive and more directed at the people who are likely to be interested in a game like Dragon Age 3. Even if that means they have to keep us all in the dark about stuff for a bit longer.

Thanks for your perspective guys. It's nice to feel that i'm not the only one who see's the overall problem. But I would ask you all to not be insulting to me or to each other.
This isn't a Bioware Hate Thread, or an ME3 Endings War.
This is about PR, and what would appeal to you guys as gamers and "fans" of Bioware. I'm genuinely curious.

Initially Im inclined to dismiss everything you say for the use of the term 'spunkgargleweewee' Its not clever, the word needs to die. Its amusing when Yahtzee uses it because he's got a reputation for being a bitter bastard who hates the fps market, its a quirk. When anyone other than Yahtzee uses it, its fucking stupid. Stop trying to push it as a valid way to reference a genre. Its insulting and dismissive, and makes it hard to not glaze over your argument.


And moving on to your point...your point is moot. As you admit, you dont understand marketing. The flashy trailers are obviously not for you, they're for people who will be sucked in by flashy trailers. The 'audience' that you're so fervently wanting to cater to, cannot be catered to. Because you're right, they value content. They dont want advertising and marketing. They want detailed run downs of what is and isnt present. They want details which shouldnt be out until the game is.

So critizing a company for not adapting their marketing to a genre which is a marketing nightmare is pretty lame. I give kudos for Bioware for trying their different approaches. They may not have been successful, but why dont you tell us what you want to see, if its so easy.

The vague exception to both of these points, is showy dramatic trailers which hint at epic stories and great dialogue and characters. Amazing that, the main piece of marketing which does work, is pretty much a shiny trailer.


Also you're still totally missing the point they're going for by promoting the engine, its painful to watch you.

 

[spartandude]

unless its a universly buggy and unstable engine, whatever engine they use does not make the game automatically bad or good

for all i care they can use Cry-Engine but that wont get me excited or annoyed. and tbh given bioware's recent track record i wont even bother buying their next game unless i hear that it gives me free kittens

 

[Tom_green_day]

A) From what I heard, the Battlefield 4 trailer was recieved well, I've heard no-one give it criticism for what was in the actual trailer. I think the only things I've heard are like the OP, saying 'it's modern therefore it's bad' which is an archaic view to hold.
B) Not everyone hates the ending and/or Bioware. Everyone I speak to IRL says they don't mind the ending and still like Bioware, and I incldue myself in that group. However you weren't really attacking them in your post, so this doesn't really count.
C) Might have been said before, but Bioware said that the next ME game will use the Frostbite engine too.

 

[Uriain]

Hey folks.

No it's not an ME3 endings thread, don't worry!

The endings are tangentially relevant to what I wanna talk about/ask about regarding Bioware and Dragon Age 3.

Recently EA released a pretty substantive "gameplay" trailer for Battlefield 4: Call of Modern Shooter Let's Blow Shit Up Again. And as near as I can tell the general response amongst gaming pundits/journos and the internet at large was widespread and mocking laughter pretty much universally.

One relevant piece of information that I took from it, when I noted this widespread derision for YET ANOTHER COD-Copy FPS/Spunkgargleweewee coming up, is that BF4 runs on the Frostbite 3 engine - the very same engine that Dragon Age 3 will run on.

So what's my point, you may ask?

Well in the wake of this mocking derision for BF4 I have noticed something else curious, something that you might think given the apparent widespread derision that BF4 has been subjected to in the wake of its trailer is completely obvious. And that is that Bioware have been strangely keen to point out (in various places) that "Yes! Dragon Age 3 DOES run on the Frostbite 3 engine! And it's totally AWESOME!"

Which struck me as kind of stupid, in an obvious-to-a-five-year-old sort of way.

You would think that they would be keen to say something along the lines "Oh yes it uses the same engine, but we heavily modified it for our own purposes so don't worry folks!" instead of "Yes those comparisons to Battlefield 4 are valid."
I mean in the wake of BF4's poor criticle response (supposedly) is it really a good idea to highlight that Dragon Age 3 uses the same engine? When such highlighting would cause concern in the fanbase at the best of times never mind now?

I had thought that a large part of Bioware's horrible marketing was down to David "Button=Awesome" Silverman but he has long since departed Bioware and I believe works in a completely different department in a whole other part of EA now; but it seems like Bioware's terrible Marketing/PR continues unabated.
And given the public mauling that Bioware and EA at large has gotten in the past year or so in regards of its terribad PR (amongst other things including Those Endings), it seems even more nonsensical a comparison to make IMO.

Bioware have been at this making games schtick for around 2 decades now. You would think that they woulda gotten the hang of knowing what to say and when to say it, and more importantly what NOT to say.

One of the criticisms (fair or not) that Bioware have gotten (in large part thanks to the terribad marketing) is that they ought to quit chasing those CoD dollars because they service a different market from CoD.
Keeping this in mind, highlighting the fact that DA3 and BF4 use the same engine, is not good Marketing. At all. Because it will only feed back into the whole "Bioware are dumping us to chase CoD dollars" belief that has arisen in the last few years, and you would think given how poorly that has worked out for them they would want to avoid it in future.

Do you guys think that Bioware will ever get any better at this Marketing thing? Or will they always be terrible at it?

And given that a year on, the fanbase is still largely sore about the ME3 endings (and DA2 being mediocre and TOR being a WoW clone), is there anything that BW could do from a PR stand point to get them and us to the point where we have a somewhat cooperative relationship again where we can feel like we can trust what BW say?

A couple of points I want to address here.

1) Stating that Dragon Age 3 is on the Frostbite 3 Engine is actually a boon for them. If you look at the BF4 trailer the quality of the engine is quite apparent. Since this engine is a step up from the previous engine Dragon age has been using which allows them the potential to make impressive graphical leaps in both monster and character/customization. I Am not saying they will, just saying its a possibility.

2) EA makes the terrible PR/Marketing choices by in large, and while yes, the ME3 thing and to a smaller extent DA2 and SWtoR might not have been handled as best they could, by in large Bioware is pretty good about PR/Marketing

3) I don't understand why Bioware is "chasing after the CoD dollars". Everyone is chasing that kinda sales/cash, so when you A) single out a company for it that seems weird. B) when you single out a company whose next game isnt a FPS, which is the genre which typically generates that level of sales, that is also weird, and C) Lets put the argument forward that they WERE the only other company looking for those kind of sales, why is that a bad thing? Given their track record big sales to their style of game would be good for everyone.

All in all, I don't see an issue for Bioware to continue to sell their product as their marketing/PR is pretty standard for the industry, not exceptional in any direction. The ball will stay afloat/drop with EA and how they manage the Sim City issues, its continued mis-management of PR related issues, and its ability to not continually shoot itself in the foot every time a new property is announced/released

 

[UrinalDook]

It seems silly to me to highlight the similarities to BF4 in light of this, especially given the fanbases' apparent wariness of spunkgargleweewee and EA/Bioware apparent (real or not) play for the CoD dollars.

THEY'RE NOT. Seriously, how are you not getting this? They have not 'highlighted' a single similarity between DA3 and BF4, they are absolutely not attempting to market DA3 to the so-called 'CoD Crowd' (itself a ridiculous term when you're not taking about CoD, you're talking about Battlefield - its biggest rival). All they have said with any point of pride is that it uses the same engine. And like everybody here, myself included, has already said, if you care one iota what engine a game runs, you already know they can used for many different purposes.

The people they want to draw in are the fans of Dragon Age, more importantly the fans they lost with DA2. They're making a point of letting us know its on a new engine because they want to try and persuade those people burned after DA2 that DA3 is a step forwards, not sideways or even backwards (depending on your level of scorn for DA2).

Thanks for your perspective guys. It's nice to feel that i'm not the only one who see's the overall problem. But I would ask you all to not be insulting to me or to each other.

I have to ask if you're even reading the thread. 90% of the responses have been some variation on 'I don't know what you mean' or 'no, Frostbite is a good thing and opinions of DA aside, most people recognise that an engine by itself means little', or even my personal favourite, 'stop using "spunkgargleweewee" like it's a legitimate turn of phrase'.

Sorry if I come across as abrasive, I'm just struggling to appreciate your angle on this. Honestly, it feels like an argument right out of left field.

 

[Kmadden2004]

I am not jumping on the hate bioware band wagon guys. I genuinely am interested in what people think about their PR and marketing skillz or lack thereof lol.

I used the BF4 example as an EXAMPLE to highlight that that they still, after the horrible last year or so, dont seem to have improved and given how the fanbase at large seems to feel about them at this time it feels like something they ought to be putting a real effort into improving. That is how they communicate with the fanbase.

It seems silly to me to highlight the similarities to BF4 in light of this, especially given the fanbases' apparent wariness of spunkgargleweewee and EA/Bioware apparent (real or not) play for the CoD dollars.

But Bioware aren't marketing BF4. Bioware have zero involvement with BF4.

I... I honestly still have no idea why you're bringing BF4 into this at all. Help me out here, break it down into bullet-points if you have to, how exactly are Bioware highlighting similarities between BF4 and DA3 (a game which we haven't even seen a single screenshot of yet)?

How does the reaction to BF4, a game in a completely different genre, made by a completely different studio, have any impact on DA3?

 

[CloudAtlas]

I don't understand what the OP wants to say either.

An RPG that looks as good as Battlefield 3 or 4? And maybe has some of its physics too? And regarding future RPGs with guns, like possibly the next Mass Effect: an RPG with a combat feeling as good as Battlefield? Hell yea, to all of that!

But what does that have to do with how Battlefield 4 is received? As long as it looks good? Or with BioWare's marketing? And why are they chasing "CoD Dollars" just because their new game uses an engine that originated in a shooter? I think most upcoming RPGs will do that, and reasonably so.

And given that a year on, the fanbase is still largely sore about the ME3 endings

I will take issue again and again every single time this comes up, because it's always stated like it's self-evident, a universally accepted fact. But it is not. It is just your assumption.

 

[Piorn]

Wait, so we've come so far as to criticise an unreleased game for using the same engine as an unoriginal shooter?

That's like criticising water for containing Hydrogen.

 

[Legion]

Wait, so we've come so far as to criticise an unreleased game for using the same engine as an unoriginal shooter?

That's like criticising water for containing Hydrogen.

It's more of a case of "Using the engine as a selling point when another game that uses it is getting bad press is a bad marketing move."

They aren't criticising the game, but the way it is being marketed using the engine.

I don't think it's going to make a difference to be honest. The average gamer knows little about what engines are used, and isn't likely to really care unless it's widely known as a bad one. Considering Frostbite is considered good, I doubt being used on what some may see as a bad game will affect people's reception to other games using it.

 

[Uriain]

Wait, so we've come so far as to criticise an unreleased game for using the same engine as an unoriginal shooter?

That's like criticising water for containing Hydrogen.

This made me laugh out loud at work in a meeting. Good show sir.