You don't get rich without taking risks.Scrumpmonkey said:Yes i have. And I wouldn't pump money into high risk futures. It's stupid.Dogstile said:Tell me, have you ever heard of the stock market?
You don't get rich without taking risks.Scrumpmonkey said:Yes i have. And I wouldn't pump money into high risk futures. It's stupid.Dogstile said:Tell me, have you ever heard of the stock market?
I have, its called capitalism.Scrumpmonkey said:But you get very, very poor very quickly for taking unnecessary ones.Dogstile said:You don't get rich without taking risks.Scrumpmonkey said:Yes i have. And I wouldn't pump money into high risk futures. It's stupid.Dogstile said:Tell me, have you ever heard of the stock market?
Tell me, have you heard of the financial crisis?
It's not backed by anything other than the computer time used to process the transactions and the fact that people consider it to have value.Vilealbaniandwarf said:What the fuck are bitcoins actually backed by? Most currencies are backed by countries, I'm still wrapping my head around why Bitcoins are even worth anything at all. Not just another extension of the current dotcom bubble that's going to crash sometime reeeeeeeaaaalll soon.
Yeah, those dirty commies, eh? While here, in the glorious West, we can use whichever currency we want! Dollars! Euros! Colorful rocks! Pearls!Phrozenflame500 said:In a free country, you can't. But we're talking about China and Russia.
Correction. You don't get rich by not lucking out on the risks you took, and I hear tissues might become a big market in UK.Dogstile said:You don't get rich without taking risks.
They aren't, but you can still accept them if you have a colourful rock fetish or something. And in the US, <a href=http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx>private businesses have the right to refuse accepting US$ and develop their own policy for accepting currency. They aren't illegal here, like Bitcoin is in Russia.Vegosiux said:Wait, what do you mean colorful rocks and pearls aren't legally recognized forms of payment in USA? I thought it was a free country!
You say that, but lets see what you say when someone gives you a Liberty Dollar [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar] back as change. You have to be very careful when making Monopoly Money. You also have to be licensed to trade in it or you'll be violating Money Laundering laws. You also can't pay employees in Monopoly Money without following the rules very closely, or you'll run a foul of Labor Laws. As much as it isn't technically illegal to create a psudo currency, and the ethics of using monopoly money(economic term not game term see also Company Script) to create effective slaves a la Walmart in Mexico, creating it legally is tricky and may as well be illegal.Phrozenflame500 said:They aren't, but you can still accept them if you have a colourful rock fetish or something. And in the US, <a href=http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx>private businesses have the right to refuse accepting US$ and develop their own policy for accepting currency. They aren't illegal here, like Bitcoin is in Russia.Vegosiux said:Wait, what do you mean colorful rocks and pearls aren't legally recognized forms of payment in USA? I thought it was a free country!
yes it is. There is even actually a GabeNcoin - in the name of our lord ans saviuor GabeN http://www.gabencoin.org/ Though its circulation so far has been limited to Reddit as far as i know http://www.reddit.com/r/gaben_coincastlewise said:Wait Dogecoin is a real thing? I thought that was something that LRR make up for the X ways to Kickstarter video
wait what? how does me not buying cryptocurrency makes me an idiot?Scrumpmonkey said:Ha! And people take this shit as money. If you have never invested in a Cryptocurrency you are a fucking idiot who deserves to lose every cent.
Promises of exchange markets and belief in its value. Just like every other currency. Sure, governments have some actual property to back things behind, but it hardly ever comprises enough. Coutnries like mine where the central bank acutally has enough gold to cover 30% of my currency value are rare exceptions.Vilealbaniandwarf said:What the fuck are bitcoins actually backed by? Most currencies are backed by countries, I'm still wrapping my head around why Bitcoins are even worth anything at all. Not just another extension of the current dotcom bubble that's going to crash sometime reeeeeeeaaaalll soon.
if your are mining on your laptop - certainly.JarinArenos said:Instability and inherent silliness aside... doesn't bitcoin still cost significantly more to "mine" (in electricity costs) than the coin is, or ever has been, worth?
you seem to be under wrong impression that maximum of regular money supply is stable. Its not. central banks change it all the time to their liking.Jeroenr said:Supply and demand. There is maximum of coins that can exist.
And as long as it remains unstable i just cant see bitcoins as currency, but more like a investment.
If i received a payment just before the price drop, i probably felt screwed.
So for easy online payment Pay-Pal wil do just fine for me.
More like dirty authoritarians, since in communism its actually communal rule, but thats not the topic here.Vegosiux said:Yeah, those dirty commies, eh? While here, in the glorious West, we can use whichever currency we want! Dollars! Euros! Colorful rocks! Pearls!
Wait, what do you mean colorful rocks and pearls aren't legally recognized forms of payment in USA? I thought it was a free country!
Taking risks is not a all or nothing deal. I could have taken an extra 100 from my pay, invested into stocks (or bitcoins), earned 300 from it, took that 100 back and used the other 200 to invest further. at this point i have no chance of loosing anything other than my profit made from the investment, and as such my risk becomes minimal, yet i can still earn a lot of money if i invest visely (and get lucky).Also, just to be a little cheeky. Just how much of a "risk" did you take, anyway? I mean, you speak with the firm tone of someone who was willing to put everything at stake to, how do you say, "improve himself"...but I highly doubt the stakes were anywhere near that high.
There's still plenty of time for things to happen, in any case.
I'm well aware how banks work.Strazdas said:you seem to be under wrong impression that maximum of regular money supply is stable. Its not. central banks change it all the time to their liking.Jeroenr said:Supply and demand. There is maximum of coins that can exist.
And as long as it remains unstable i just cant see bitcoins as currency, but more like a investment.
If i received a payment just before the price drop, i probably felt screwed.
So for easy online payment Pay-Pal wil do just fine for me.
They key to your faulty logic is it is only everyone "you" know.Dogstile said:Snip...
Also, just about everyone I know who has invested into bitcoins have made back twice their investment and are now trading with money completely separate from their original investment. Their original investment is back in their pocket.
Yes, it does, level some spikes, however as in the case of the recent crysis economy spikes exist as well and still technically central bank can do whatever it wants with limiting the supply of money. obviously, it usually chooses to act wisely, because stable economy are beneficial to it, but that does not mean we got a hardcap on our currency that cant just be lifted.Jeroenr said:I'm well aware how banks work.
But they are backed by national economy's, this does level the big spikes.
In the Euro zone, even when greece messed up big time, the Euro didn't freefall.
But my point is the value of you currecy doesn't vary that much if you stay within you countries borders.
prices don't change in the shops if the Dollar drops in value compared to the Euro.
And internatiol, a value drop of 40 to 50% is not likely
So espacaly on local markets, a real bank will do just fine.
off topic:
I dont know the forum etiquettefor this.
I find replying to a post with so many quotes a bit of a bother.
Its not faulty if the only thing i'm arguing against is that its stupid to invest in the first place. Its not, its a tool to make money if played correctly. Yes, it lacks a stable base like a national currency, which makes it fluctuate a lot. This is a good thing, because that means that you can buy low and sell high in waves by studying the trends and keeping track of the news. For example, we knew a month before China backed out that it was going to. We sold a week before China dropped and made a hell of a lot of cash.medv4380 said:They key to your faulty logic is it is only everyone "you" know.Dogstile said:Snip...
Also, just about everyone I know who has invested into bitcoins have made back twice their investment and are now trading with money completely separate from their original investment. Their original investment is back in their pocket.
Whilst it is a joke and everything, people donating Dogecoin has paid for a few athletes to get to the winter olympics who wouldnt have been able to otherwise.SL33TBL1ND said:It's important to note, however, that each Dogecoin is worth virtually nothing [http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/#jump-doge-btc], so a 27% increase isn't all that much when you really look at it. Which is part of the driving force behind its success, I suppose. People are far less worried about making transactions in a currency that's not even worth 2 10ths of 1 US cent (at the time of this post), and is used mostly as a joke (for now).Karloff said:The value of most other Bitcoin variants has fallen, dragged down by the drop in Bitcoin itself. The one exception so far is Dogecoin, whose value has risen markedly. It's now the third most valuable cryptocurrency, after its value soared 27% [http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cryptocurrency-news-round-ddos-attacks-dogecoin-soaring-bitcoin-090723637.html#MyKGrlX] in 24 hours.
JarinArenos said:Instability and inherent silliness aside... doesn't bitcoin still cost significantly more to "mine" (in electricity costs) than the coin is, or ever has been, worth?
The same is true of actual money and a lot of bitcoiners defend bitcoin because it is closer to the "gold standard". (There is a finite limit on the amount of currency on the market) The truth is that at it's core concept (That's all it started as, a proof of concept) It's not a bad idea. Once it was taken onboard by the people who liked the idea of a de-centralized currency. (Libertarians, Black Market dealers, Speculators) It took off. It's very much a bubble and a scam in one.Vilealbaniandwarf said:What the fuck are bitcoins actually backed by? Most currencies are backed by countries, I'm still wrapping my head around why Bitcoins are even worth anything at all. Not just another extension of the current dotcom bubble that's going to crash sometime reeeeeeeaaaalll soon.
I neither said it couldn't be used for anything, nor that I dislike it, nor did I say anywhere that I'm some sort of Bitcoin proponent. So, cool story, I guess.Tropicaz said:Whilst it is a joke and everything, people donating Dogecoin has paid for a few athletes to get to the winter olympics who wouldnt have been able to otherwise.SL33TBL1ND said:It's important to note, however, that each Dogecoin is worth virtually nothing [http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/#jump-doge-btc], so a 27% increase isn't all that much when you really look at it. Which is part of the driving force behind its success, I suppose. People are far less worried about making transactions in a currency that's not even worth 2 10ths of 1 US cent (at the time of this post), and is used mostly as a joke (for now).Karloff said:The value of most other Bitcoin variants has fallen, dragged down by the drop in Bitcoin itself. The one exception so far is Dogecoin, whose value has risen markedly. It's now the third most valuable cryptocurrency, after its value soared 27% [http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cryptocurrency-news-round-ddos-attacks-dogecoin-soaring-bitcoin-090723637.html#MyKGrlX] in 24 hours.
I love dogecoin, it's a very lighthearted joke, the only people who seem to dislike it/the idea of it are the Bitcoin fanatics
I'll keep this saved. Rarely do I see a bitcoiner actually claim that it's a Ponzi Scheme. Usually they fight tooth an nail to shun the stigma. Otherwise new marks won't join in. But you boldly and proudly pronounce your intentions as to exploit the new people joining in. Congrats on getting the Madoff Achievement in life and actually embracing it.Dogstile said:snipmedv4380 said:They key to your faulty logic is it is only everyone "you" know.Dogstile said:Snip...
Also, just about everyone I know who has invested into bitcoins have made back twice their investment and are now trading with money completely separate from their original investment. Their original investment is back in their pocket.
To say the entire practice is dumb because of those people is weird, seeing as exploiting those people is kind of the point of the service.
snip
Keep it saved. Anyone who thinks the point of trading bitcoins is not to make money off of people is an idiot and a liar. I won't concede to it being an actual Ponzi scheme though, as it is completely transparent in how it works and everyone who trades in bitcoins is trying to one up the other people who do the same, whereas a ponzi scheme is making money off of people who expect to get their money back.medv4380 said:I'll keep this saved. Rarely do I see a bitcoiner actually claim that it's a Ponzi Scheme. Usually they fight tooth an nail to shun the stigma. Otherwise new marks won't join in. But you boldly and proudly pronounce your intentions as to exploit the new people joining in. Congrats on getting the Madoff Achievement in life and actually embracing it.Dogstile said:snipmedv4380 said:They key to your faulty logic is it is only everyone "you" know.Dogstile said:Snip...
Also, just about everyone I know who has invested into bitcoins have made back twice their investment and are now trading with money completely separate from their original investment. Their original investment is back in their pocket.
To say the entire practice is dumb because of those people is weird, seeing as exploiting those people is kind of the point of the service.
snip
And to reaffirm. It is completely dumb because it's little more than a scam to get rich quick. Regardless what the name of the scam is.