Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

[Charli]

Nope I agree with them, if you intend to lie about your E-Penor, we will castrate it.

Oooh yes.

Castrating the e-penor would quite literally mean simply wiping out the perpetrator's achievements. All of them. Not banning him, though, because it's costing 50 bucks for something utterly minor almost to the point of irrelevance, as much as I overall hate hackers.

My opinion? Blizzard once again proving themselves and once again that their new moto is "We control everything and we jam a dick up your ass, too, so you know who's boss.". It's as simple as that. The new Battle.net, ignoring all the glaring design flaws and shitty philosophy, was already the epitome of a nanny service in gaming. Seriously, I am not surprised at all.

No not necissarily? And my someone sounds butthurt, whats up?

I've never had a single problem with Blizzard's handling of customers, hell they're damn right flexible compared to most game handlers I've had to deal with. Battlenet also, isn't invasive, and doesn't harm anything.

Blizzard once again proving themselves that their new motto is...what ....what? Are you...Never mind I don't even want to know. Just...really go out and experience more before you pin a label on something, there is always worse.

 

[Ken Sapp]

A bunch of cheaters got banned, woop de fucking do. The guys who used this third party software only did it to hack achievements + icons, so fuck em.

Nice of you to ascribe the most villianous of intentions to those who have used a trainer. Some people don't give a flying fornication about achievements or icons. Cheating should only be bannable if it is done in such a way as to give someone an unfair advantage in multiplayer, Icons don't mean crap and last i checked there was no effect from SP achievements on multiplayer matches. The only person harmed by cheating in single player is the player of the game and I doubt you could find many of them who would consider themselves harmed.

 

[Eldarion]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

 

[Exort]

A bunch of cheaters got banned, woop de fucking do. The guys who used this third party software only did it to hack achievements + icons, so fuck em.

Nice of you to ascribe the most villianous of intentions to those who have used a trainer. Some people don't give a flying fornication about achievements or icons. Cheating should only be bannable if it is done in such a way as to give someone an unfair advantage in multiplayer, Icons don't mean crap and last i checked there was no effect from SP achievements on multiplayer matches. The only person harmed by cheating in single player is the player of the game and I doubt you could find many of them who would consider themselves harmed.

1.)You don't care about achievment
2.) the world population is made by far more than just you.
see where Im getting at?
some people do care.

 

[Altorin]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

Arguing with Garak is like trying to convince a tsunami not to destroy your coastal village.

In other news, my inclination to migrate towards trainers for Diablo 2 (at first it's always to just act as a surrogate and safe mule, but it always escalates), if this policy continues in Diablo 3 (and I see no reason why it shouldn't), then maybe that will break my cycle of cheating in Diablo.. I never intend to, I just hope that they make the item grind in Diablo 3 more bearable. In Diablo 2 it seemed to be designed with insanity and some sort of meta-economy in mind.. I hope that that aspect of Diablo 3, at least in singleplayer, is minimized.

 

[John Funk]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

 

[Altorin]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

I'd argue that zapping their entire Starcraft 2 achievement list, legit and illegit would be both more painful and more justified

rather then banning them from whatever thing

 

[Ken Sapp]

A bunch of cheaters got banned, woop de fucking do. The guys who used this third party software only did it to hack achievements + icons, so fuck em.

Nice of you to ascribe the most villianous of intentions to those who have used a trainer. Some people don't give a flying fornication about achievements or icons. Cheating should only be bannable if it is done in such a way as to give someone an unfair advantage in multiplayer, Icons don't mean crap and last i checked there was no effect from SP achievements on multiplayer matches. The only person harmed by cheating in single player is the player of the game and I doubt you could find many of them who would consider themselves harmed.

1.)You don't care about achievment
2.) the world population is made by far more than just you.
see where Im getting at?
some people do care.

And if Battle.net shut down tomorrow what would you have to show for it? I don't pretend to speak for everyone but as there is no carryover effect into the multiplayer then they have no grounds to ban people based on the use of trainers in single player games. Blizzard has walled off cheats from multiplayer since at least SCII and I applaud them for it as I have had many enjoyable matches over the years thanks to that.

 

[Eldarion]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care about (achievements) is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

 

[Exort]

And if Battle.net shut down tomorrow what would you have to show for it? I don't pretend to speak for everyone but as there is no carryover effect into the multiplayer then they have no grounds to ban people based on the use of trainers in single player games. Blizzard has walled off cheats from multiplayer since at least SCII and I applaud them for it as I have had many enjoyable matches over the years thanks to that.

Yea, because I done nothing wrong. Cheater hack to get acheivement and should be banned, if it is not for achievement build in cheat is more than enough, not to mention editor. It is not like Blizzard ban people using cheat that is not to get achievements, then they won't build in cheat codes.

 

[Exort]

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care (achievements) about is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Blizzard never said that, the editor that comes with the game is more than enough prove blizzard don't care how you play it, just not hack to get achievement.

 

[John Funk]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care about (achievements) is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Play as Guest.

Your problems are surprisingly solved. The end.

 

[Grigori361]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care about (achievements) is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Just to add in a few cents, while I can see where both sides come from, and see a reasonability to both arguments, I will have to side with the blizzard is overstepping themselves, this sets a very dangerous (in my opinion) precedent, not that it will affect me per se, (I have my own separate issues with blizzard, which I'll not get into, and as such have refused to buy any of their games since before Wow. ) but this absolutely does make mods or other single player 'corruptions' of the game fair game for grounds for banning, or worse theoretically. Make no mistake, I have no problem with people who hack the game getting banned, but this circumstance is at something of a crossroads of issues, and anyone who concentrates too heavily on it being reasonable for blizzard to ban someone for hacking the game, or the option of playing offline as a guest to avoid the "evil big brother" P) that is blizzard is missing the point.

No offense.

 

[Exort]

@Grigori361
Is the problem about the software "Warden"?
Yea, it is one of those thing bewteen legal and illegal.
Personally I hate it but it is the one of those thing to stop cheaters.

 

[Ken Sapp]

And if Battle.net shut down tomorrow what would you have to show for it? I don't pretend to speak for everyone but as there is no carryover effect into the multiplayer then they have no grounds to ban people based on the use of trainers in single player games. Blizzard has walled off cheats from multiplayer since at least SCII and I applaud them for it as I have had many enjoyable matches over the years thanks to that.

Yea, because I done nothing wrong. Cheater hack to get acheivement and should be banned, if it is not for achievement build in cheat is more than enough, not to mention editor. It is not like Blizzard ban people using cheat that is not to get achievements, then they won't build in cheat codes.

No they shouldn't be banned, they should have their achievements wiped. Saying they should all be banned for doing something which Blizzard has a much simpler and just as effective option is like saying everyone who has ever stolen anything no matter how minor should have their hand/s cut off. Will having your hands cut off deter thieves? Of course it will but it is extreme to equate the theft of large sums of money or goods with a child who pockets a piece of candy. First offense wipe cheated or all account achievements, Second offense wipe and lock all achievements and add a CHEATER tag to their profile, third offense ban them. It is a matter of whether the punishment fits the "crime".

 

[Eldarion]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care about (achievements) is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Just to add in a few cents, while I can see where both sides come from, and see a reasonability to both arguments, I will have to side with the blizzard is overstepping themselves, this sets a very dangerous (in my opinion) precedent, not that it will affect me per se, (I have my own separate issues with blizzard, which I'll not get into, and as such have refused to buy any of their games since before Wow. ) but this absolutely does make mods or other single player 'corruptions' of the game fair game for grounds for banning, or worse theoretically. Make no mistake, I have no problem with people who hack the game getting banned, but this circumstance is at something of a crossroads of issues, and anyone who concentrates too heavily on it being reasonable for blizzard to ban someone for hacking the game, or the option of playing offline as a guest to avoid the "evil big brother" P) that is blizzard is missing the point.

No offense.

Thank you, I made the same point about precedent in a previous post that John ignored.

 

[Eldarion]

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care (achievements) about is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Blizzard never said that, the editor that comes with the game is more than enough prove blizzard don't care how you play it, just not hack to get achievement.

The editor that comes with the game? So its fine to use the tools blizzard gives you? Thats my point. The in game editor and the in game cheat codes aren't the only ones that I might use, blizz should not have ANY say about what I do with my single player game on my own profile.

And signing in as guest does not solve the issue either. Your missing the point.

 

[Grigori361]

...and if you don't log in, you can't resume from your single player save created while online?

No. It's essentially a separate profile.

...which is what you were asking for, no?

No, what we are asking for is the ablity to cheat/mod single player any way we want without it giving blizz an excuse to ban people from multiplayer. We would like single player to not impact multiplayer at all.

And again, play as Guest. There, do anything you want. You're good.

These cheaters were specifically hacking the single-player game in order to get multiplayer "e-peen." That was their entire purpose in doing this. Their "cheats" were exactly the same as the official Blizzard ones, only they didn't turn off achievement rewards the way the Blizzard ones do.

Again, justified.

No, it isn't. While I would be with you on the point of people boosting their score to get multiplayer rewards, I just can't in this case. You act like the in game cheats are the only ones people would want to use, they aren't. Blizzard is saying that you can't play single player except on their terms. A part of the game I don't care about (achievements) is preventing me from playing how I want to on my profile. This is why online achievements should be separate from singleplayer ones.

Just to add in a few cents, while I can see where both sides come from, and see a reasonability to both arguments, I will have to side with the blizzard is overstepping themselves, this sets a very dangerous (in my opinion) precedent, not that it will affect me per se, (I have my own separate issues with blizzard, which I'll not get into, and as such have refused to buy any of their games since before Wow. ) but this absolutely does make mods or other single player 'corruptions' of the game fair game for grounds for banning, or worse theoretically. Make no mistake, I have no problem with people who hack the game getting banned, but this circumstance is at something of a crossroads of issues, and anyone who concentrates too heavily on it being reasonable for blizzard to ban someone for hacking the game, or the option of playing offline as a guest to avoid the "evil big brother" P) that is blizzard is missing the point.

No offense.

Thank you, I made the same point about precedent in a previous post that John ignored.

Indeed, he has something of a reputation I keep hearing about, but I spend most of my time playing old out of production games like DK2, and Planescape torment, so I just don't come around much aside from extra credits, and a tiny bit of Doraleous & Douches when it's to my tastes.

Anyways more to the point if this guy had done something that actually AFFECTED the multiplayer experience then I'd be all for banned the chicken shit, but this is overkill for something so relatively harmless. Much like spending time in jail, yes it's mostly harmless but the police are overstepping themselves if they put you in there for cutting an "EAT ME" into your own lawn.

(In my opinion anyways)

It would seem to me that the simpler and more appropriate response would be to do something affecting the individuals achievements if that is what this is all about, maybe ban him from getting any? Overkill once again, but more reasonable overkill me thinks, or just stop the overkill altogether and remove the achievement from their account, and maybe give them a warning not to again or else blizzard ninjas will show up at their house and wipe SC2 from their hard-drive. Or something.

 

[Exort]

The editor that comes with the game? So its fine to use the tools blizzard gives you? Thats my point. The in game editor and the in game cheat codes aren't the only ones that I might use, blizz should not have ANY say about what I do with my single player game on my own profile.

And signing in as guest does not solve the issue either. Your missing the point.

Yes, because they know you can't cheat with the editor, but they don't know if you C++ code is for hacking a achievement or changing gameplay. Not like they have problem with program that change just the gameplay, there is ton of mod for Diablo 2 they never cared about it, as long it is not for cheating. There is even a mod for starcraft 2 beta and they said they loved it and send a copy to all developers. They are completely fine with changing gameplay, again as long it is not cheating.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You are forgetting that the precedent set by Nintendo vs Galoob says that it is legal to manipulate how the code operates as long as it is temporary (ie, it doesn't overwrite the code permanently).

http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/07/14/blizzard-wins-sj-mdy/

This is a case about a WoW Bot developer and how their program being loaded into RAM violates Blizzard's copyright.

The important bits:

Blizzard owns a valid copyright in the game client software, Blizzard has granted a limited license for WoW players to use the software, use of the software with Glider falls outside the scope of the license established in section 4 of the TOU, use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe Blizzard?s copyright.

The program in question does not modify WoW's coding at the base level (as established in Nintendo vs Galoob), yet, the courts ruled in favor of Blizzard because the program modified the intended output of the program in such a way that it violated the license (that good ol' copyright at work) granted to the user.

The precedent set in this case is virtually identical to today's topic.