Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

[Exort]

doesn't work on the single player campaign.

Editor have all Single player campagin dirctly build-in just load them and mod them. Of course then you can't earn the achievements.

 

[Exort]

To those claiming that having the achievements through gives gamers fraudulent achievements and hurts the community: I'm the Pope of China.

Who is to say whether I can be or not?

There is no Pope of china. China goverment don't beleive in any kind of god. Even christian there are closly watch by the goverment (or any religion as a matter of fact).
Anyway I not sure what those two statement have any relations.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

To those claiming that having the achievements through gives gamers fraudulent achievements and hurts the community: I'm the Pope of China.

Who is to say whether I can be or not?

There is no Pope of china. China goverment don't beleive in any kind of god. Even christian there are closly watch by the goverment (or any religion as a matter of fact).
Anyway I not sure what those two statement have any relations.

Did you get my point?

 

[M4yce]

Who the hell cares if you get an achievement or not? I mean really did you ever not add someone to your friends list cause he had too many or not enough gamerscore? Wow so a guy fluffed up his e-peen by 20 points whoop de doo, is that really a reason to make him/her pay another fee? No it is not, it's an easy way to make a profit.

Now I get what half of you are saying, it says in the agreement NO CHEATING and I get that...but come on really? I (and I'm not saying I do, cause I have no mind for these things) can't play my game the way I want BY MYSELF, it's just like sxephil said it's like pleasing yourself and your girlfriend saying you're cheating on her with your hand. What's next People can't do mass ravens anymore because the EULA says it's an OP tactic? Is that really a world we want to play in?

 

[bob1052]

Who the hell cares if you get an achievement or not? I mean really did you ever not add someone to your friends list cause he had too many or not enough gamerscore? Wow so a guy fluffed up his e-peen by 20 points whoop de doo, is that really a reason to make him/her pay another fee? No it is not, it's an easy way to make a profit.

Now I get what half of you are saying, it says in the agreement NO CHEATING and I get that...but come on really? I (and I'm not saying I do, cause I have no mind for these things) can't play my game the way I want BY MYSELF, it's just like sxephil said it's like pleasing yourself and your girlfriend saying you're cheating on her with your hand. What's next People can't do mass ravens anymore because the EULA says it's an OP tactic? Is that really a world we want to play in?

The ban does not affect them continuing their offline play. Achievements don't matter offline. If they felt the same as you they wouldn't mind, but they obviously care about their achievements.

 

[Exort]

To those claiming that having the achievements through gives gamers fraudulent achievements and hurts the community: I'm the Pope of China.

Who is to say whether I can be or not?

There is no Pope of china. China goverment don't beleive in any kind of god. Even christian there are closly watch by the goverment (or any religion as a matter of fact).
Anyway I not sure what those two statement have any relations.

Did you get my point?

Ok, everyone know you are not Pope of China, but we don't know who earn achievement through cheating or non cheating.

[

But this sets precedent, this means that they CAN ban you for any third party program or mod at all.

and they have a 18 year history of not baning mods.....

Don't they also have an 18 year history of not banning people who cheat against the AI or has this happened before now?

and did that change? They ban people getting achievement through Hacks.

 

[Why do I care]

...Really?

It's just single player damn it! It's not like I'm going online and spamming on how much Blizzard sucks anyway.

It's really simple. TURN OFF THE DAMN ACHIEVEMENTS! IT DOES NOT TAKE 50 SCIENTISTS TO DO IT!

Look, what I do with my single player, MY damn buisness. What I do online, Blizzard monitors it. But if I want to use cheats that are built-in to the game and use them for single player, I WILL.

 

[Exort]

Yes, you want to play on bnet because the game is designed to be played on bnet. With achievements, friends lists, etc.

Why would you want profile icons, achievements, friends lists, if you aren't going to be online? That's all you get from an "offline profile."

If you buy a game from Steam, you can set it to play without actually logging into Steam. But you won't be able to talk to your friends on steam messenger, you won't be able to get steam achievements, while you aren't logged in. This is the exact same thing.

For all of this I'm going to assume that multiplayer game play isn't ACTUALLY affected by achievements.

Except it's not the same thing as steam. The major difference being that VAC can be enabled or disabled in games. (it gets trickier with games that they didn't make, but the principle is the same)The way Steam handles it is by disabling achievements when you cheat, which is much better than banning people for wanting a little "achieved" icon to show up on their profile that doesn't affecting game play whatsoever. It is also clear when VAC is enabled or disabled.

Yes it is a big loss, and it is right to do so it you try to hack the achievements.
Look if someone hack to get a 100-0 win loss recond in muitlplayer, everyone will agree to ban them why not people that hack for achievement? I understand some people think achievemnt are not important but you are not the only poeple live on this planet.

It's understandable that we aren't the only people on the planet. That's not the issue. The issue is that it's a decision between taking money from people who (knowing the evil Kotick) weren't informed that cheating to get achievements in single player would take their game from them. If you're answer is "well it was in the user agreement" then my question is, "did you read through the WHOLE user agreement first thing?" Honestly I don't think cheating to get achievements DOES justify banning, but then again I also don't think it's in any way alright to claim somebody said something they didn't... so I guess our standards are at a point of contention in several ways. If they cheated against somebody else to gain an unfair advantage (that the two players did not agree on before hand) I say oust them regardless. I still haven't heard a good reason why banning is justified by cheating to gain one's own achievement. This would change if the achievements actually changed multiplayer, but if it does then that adds a whole other layer I wouldn't like about the multiplayer.

Please tell me if you think you have a good argument as to why other people's achievements are hurting your game experience, and not only that, but is essential to your enjoyment of the game. Sorry but the closest I've heard anybody get is, "I like to compare my achievements to others," and that alone doesn't quite cut it I understand you have a very strong opinion of something, but being unreasonable about it and calling everybody that disagrees with you self absorbed and dismissing them is well, self absorbed. So I'm asking you to explain your reasoning as to why it's so crucial important Exort and anybody else that thinks it's pivotal to your experience in a game. Please keep in mind that this is OTHER people's achievements I've already been convinced of the importance of achievements at all in a game.

That argument goes something like this, "I've become so jaded in my gaming that I feel that if I don't have something more to strive towards in a game I'm just not entertained by it." -Bridger
I'm not convinced that this is the case for other people's achievements because even if you have people you want to compare to, but you don't know if they cheated then the way I see it the problem isn't that they could have cheated to gain the achievements. The problem is that the people who you're caring about comparing your achievements to aren't trustworthy in the first place and maybe if they aren't you should reconsider whatever relationship you have with them or that you're being too untrusting of that person.
In the case of comparing it to major sports (which I often do when people offer the argument, "it's only a game") and the testing for performance enhancing drugs, there is a major difference. That difference being: they are competing directly and competitively against each other in every game and when it comes to the same thing in games there should without a doubt be a severe punishment for cheating.

hidden text for the sake of spacing

anyway, back to the primary issue of this topic:
Due to the ability to play as guest, I can see only two reasons why this would have become an issue.

1eople playing single player and using 3rd party cheats were unaware that they would be banned due to using the cheats
2eople that were aware of this and using 3rd party cheats and were playing online to gain an unfair advantage are just trying to cheat their way back into the system.

So Funk or anybody else, do you still think the problem is just snap solved by logging in as guest assuming that the banned persons weren't informed that using a 3rd party cheat in single player and only used it in single player, would ban their account? Let's now add the assumption that some of them were using the trainer not for achievements, but because the cheats that were built into the game didn't do something they wanted to be able to do (such as make your units go MUCH faster) just for laughs. Do these people also deserve to have their game removed?

I certainly don't think it was alright and it confirms that they have truly become Darth Blizard to the Evil Empire's Emperor Kotick. I certainly hope I'm not asking too much of people to be reasonable on this forum.

As to the wide reaching implications of this see Gregori's posts, he's got it down, but just because people seem to read one thing and it goes in one eye and out the other here it is again. The fact that they CAN legally punish people for modding (in courts intent is often disregarded, particularly in cases like these) their product has horrible implications for modders. This means that if they so wanted Exort, they could come after you for making that mod because YOU TOO, by making that mod, violated their copy right. Or am I just wrong in assuming that you didn't get written permission from the developers AND Kotick himself before making that mod?

In this case it was only a temporary suspension, but with Kotick at the helm we can only assume things will get worse to the point of a ban.

"I'm on board the Death star" -Bobby Kotick, Creative Talent presentation, 2010

I don't think Kotick is behind this, this seem very likly what Blizzard does, they never think second time to ban cheaters (again a long history of banning cheaters). First they realize people "might" didn't realize about achievement porblem that is why it is a 14 day ban. No, it don't violated thier copy right if using editor. Outside that they can't assure other program are not cheats. The company have a long history with moding community and never sue them before as long you are not cheating. Blizzard have the largest modding community, you really think that happened by random? No other people earning achievement doesn't hurt my game exp, but other people DO care. Beleive me some people do care about it. Epeen is a lot to people, pride of being better them others. Yes, it is illegal to MOD the game without thier approve, it exist in other media (movie, book, music...) as well, it is called copy right. It is the thing to protect thier creation and gerenally regerd as good thing last time I check. As a matter of fact, United state have law to arrest people for no reason at all. You should be more worry about that. I just hope people realize Blizzard ban people for earning acheivement through unfair ways, if they hate cheat or mod there will be no build-in cheat or editor.

 

[ZeoAssassin]

considering Blizzard continues to support servers for multi-player play AND produces FREE patch content to add and adjust game content. they have full rights to ban anyone they wish if they violate Blizzards rules of playing.

so if you want to cheat stay off-line
otherwise don't ***** at blizzard for getting banned for cheating. honestly is it that big a shock? i get that its over single-player in THIS case but those players are still going online and once that happens you play by blizzards rules. just like any other online experience, you don't play by the rules your going to get kicked whether its from a company or those who run dedicated servers on any fps or whatever.

 

[zombiesinc]

I actually just replied to this (more or less) in a very similar thread;

Though I'm surprised people have been banned for cheating in single-player, especially without any sort of warning, I can understand, to at least some extent.

Although some people don't care about achievements or unlockables, a lot of people do. And it certainly ruins the experience for other users when someone has unlocked or achieved everything in an extremely short period of time, or entirely through cheats. The main reason users dedicate extra time and energy into a game is to achieve or unlock things. They can then feel a sense of accomplishment once they're rewarded.

I feel it's a lot similar to MW2. You can't play the game for more than ten minutes without getting a message saying "Hosting a tenth prestige lobby for 800 MS points" (Yes, I'm referring to the 360 version) which in itself is entirely annoying, but also quite discouraging if you're someone who actually wants to reach the tenth prestige. It sucks to know people are paying for, or cheating to get the 'ultimate' or final achievement(s) in a game. And the more cheaters that go unpunished, the less some people will want to play, especially when it comes to online gameplay.

This entire step may feel a bit excessive to some, but I wish steps like these were taken by other companies within their games, more particularly within the online portion.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

For all of this I'm going to assume that multiplayer game play isn't ACTUALLY affected by achievements.

It is if Blizzard wants their presentation to have any integrity. If they want the special player icon that you get for doing every achievement on the hardest difficulty to be special, rare and unique, then that is their right. If they want to be able to say to the players who do it legitimately, "This is your reward for being super-awesome, you get to show it off to everyone," then they need to enforce that integrity.

Except it's not the same thing as steam. The major difference being that VAC can be enabled or disabled in games. (it gets trickier with games that they didn't make, but the principle is the same)The way Steam handles it is by disabling achievements when you cheat, which is much better than banning people for wanting a little "achieved" icon to show up on their profile that doesn't affecting game play whatsoever. It is also clear when VAC is enabled or disabled.

And when you activate the actual in-game cheats in SC2, it disables any achievements.

There's really no ambiguity here. As I understand it, the only difference between the third-party trainers they were actually using and Blizzard's built-in in-game cheats, is that the official cheats disable achievements and the trainers do not. They were only cheating to get the achievements/profile icons, which, as I've said before, Blizzard has a vested interest in preserving the integrity.

It's understandable that we aren't the only people on the planet. That's not the issue. The issue is that it's a decision between taking money from people who (knowing the evil Kotick) weren't informed that cheating to get achievements in single player would take their game from them.

There was a press release about a month or so back where Blizzard clearly warned people that cheating in any mode of the game would qualify you for a ban. Multiplayer and single player.

What more can they do other than issue a warning, and then follow through?

So Funk or anybody else, do you still think the problem is just snap solved by logging in as guest assuming that the banned persons weren't informed that using a 3rd party cheat in single player and only used it in single player, would ban their account? Let's now add the assumption that some of them were using the trainer not for achievements, but because the cheats that were built into the game didn't do something they wanted to be able to do (such as make your units go MUCH faster) just for laughs. Do these people also deserve to have their game removed?

Yes. That solves it completely. If you want to cheat/hack the game/do whatever, do it while you aren't logged in, and playing as Guest. But when you're logged in and playing under the Bnet system, Blizzard is well within its rights to preserve the integrity of its system and do whatever it wants.

As to the wide reaching implications of this see Gregori's posts, he's got it down, but just because people seem to read one thing and it goes in one eye and out the other here it is again. The fact that they CAN legally punish people for modding (in courts intent is often disregarded, particularly in cases like these) their product has horrible implications for modders. This means that if they so wanted Exort, they could come after you for making that mod because YOU TOO, by making that mod, violated their copy right. Or am I just wrong in assuming that you didn't get written permission from the developers AND Kotick himself before making that mod?

Are you ignoring the mod tools that Blizzard provides for both WoW and SC2? Modding the game is different from hacking it. Or would you like to refer to Blizzard's successful lawsuit against the WoW botting program?

This.
Just... This.

This single post sums up everything I think. Seriously.

(Also, if you're going to read it, read the whole thing. And thanks to John for the comprehensive response. )

 

[Ickorus]

Personally I think bans for cheating in single player is over the top; I think they should have instead wiped the achievements and such off of any characters caught using such third party cheats with a warning that if they get caught doing it again they will recieve a permanent ban.

That said, if Blizzard warned people they would do this for cheating in any game mode I think they're well within their rights, I mean that just comes down to the player at fault, not the business.

 

[Footinbox]

I completely agree with banning them. Maybe not permanently but for a day at least. As others have said, there are already cheats for people who are so bad they shouldn't be playing anyway, so they don't deserve the achievements. I like Blizzard's stand here b/c very few games/companies stand up to those who cheat.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Banning your B.Net account does not limit your ability to play the single-player campaign. All function that came with the disk are still useable, just not under your B.Net ID name.

What Blizzard did was effectively ban them from achievements and multiplayer forever. That is it!

 

[Delusibeta]

Banning your B.Net account does not limit your ability to play the single-player campaign. All function that came with the disk are still useable, just not under your B.Net ID name.

What Blizzard did was effectively ban them from achievements and multiplayer forever. That is it!

And skirmish. Which for some people is 99% of the game.

 

[Kif]

It's the right thing to do.

If you're really that terrible you can use the built in cheats... if you're using a tool to cheat then you are clearly trying to get round something, most likely the achievement block for using built in cheats.

 

[The Great Zegrool]

Wow. Blizzard banning someone from a single player game...

Damnit, I really wanted to buy Starcraft 2, too.

 

[frago roc]

using trainers is a violation of the EULA, who's to tell that a cheat that modifies game code couldn't easily do so for multiplayer.

Who's to say that your car won't be used to kill someone?

The rules of the road? Speed limits, no DUIs, and other things you agree too by getting a license?

 

[gl1koz3]

What the. Last time I checked, I do what I want with my single player game. Because it's SINGLE PLAYER.

The fuck acheivements are doing there... or even have weight for my silly experience with the computer... I don't get.

Game developers would like to control how you interact with a game. Nintendo tried it when the Game Genie came to market and got shot down and now Blizzard is using technology to do it.

I just can't believe that so many people support this kind of nonsense.

Blizzard had no game of interest to me anyway, so I can see it as a win-win. (The amount of supporters is still silly.)

 

[Zer_]

Cheating is cheating. Whether it's cheating in online multiplayer (an offense punishable by death in my opinion) or just cheating to artificially boost your gamerscore, it's still cheating. There's a reason the official SC2 cheat codes automatically disable achievements when you use them.

Cheating is cheating.

Single player cheating is acceptable to most people because it affect no one else. The only reason it affects anyone in this case is because Blizzard designed their game that way.

If you don't care about achievements, then why do you even care about this? I have yet to see an SC2 trainer that does what the in-game cheats can't in some way. Surely, you not caring about achievements means that it's just much easier for you to use in-game cheats instead.