Blizzard bans more SC2 hackers

[bob1052]

snippity

The EULA is not hidden. It is made aware to you on the outside of the box.

The entirety of the EULA is not printed on the box sir. The example given is simply one example. A model.

Wrong again. They do not use a small example at all. They provide a URL to the entire EULA. Since it is apparent you are not familiar with this topic I suggest you stop trying to argue it.

By multiplayer being more desirable you mean it has achievements you can compare with others that is being kept fair.

Actually I was referring to the offline single player being "guest" mode.

I was too. "Online" singleplayer has achievements you can compare with others. Why is it bad that it is kept fair?

You can't compare Starcraft 2 to games that are entirely different. Starcraft 2 has online player to player achievement tracking, and a competitive ladder that is separated by a very, very thin line from the single player.

When it comes to using cheat codes in SINGLE PLAYER it doesn't matter what kind of game it is.

It does when people choose to use an online singleplayer with achievements that are compared and is only a click away from a ranked leaderboard multiplayer.

Demanding total control and leaving developers SOL while their game gets destroyed by people using trainers (see APB for reference) is not a better situation than the current.

Wait, how would using cheats in single player mode destroy YOUR game and even if it does, what does that have to do with Blizzard if you chose to cheat?

See above. They aren't doing it in single player that is seperated from multiplayer.

 

[Masterpsyker]

snippity

The EULA is not hidden. It is made aware to you on the outside of the box.

The entirety of the EULA is not printed on the box sir. The example given is simply one example. A model.

Wrong again. They do not use a small example at all. They provide a URL to the entire EULA. Since it is apparent you are not familiar with this topic I suggest you stop trying to argue it.

As it was pointed out by the poster who followed immediately after your link, "Who is going to go to the URL and read the thing before they buy the game. No one.

I may not be familiar with where and how the EULA is displayed, but I am intimately familiar with the EULA of Blizzard's products.

 

[Nouw]

There are already cheat codes in the singleplayer that Blizzard put in. People who hack it are just plain stupid. And by hacking, they mean Blizzard are banning people using an external programs to cheat.

People who are banned should get over it and learn their lesson.

Exactly, modding files have always been a violation. Use the Editor damn it!

 

[Gindil]

Seriously if this was any other company in the world people would be up in arms, but with Blizzard it's fine, it's in their terms of service. The people payed for the product, as long as they don't go online they aren't hurting anyone and Blizzard should leave them alone. Ubisoft gets in trouble for having always online DRM, but Blizzard gets off scott free for banning people from the single player, seriously what the hell.

Basically this right here.

I'm never buying another Blizzard product until they change their ToS. It's complete BS that you have to live with quite a few draconian rules because Blizzard thinks it'll give them more money.

 

[d3structor]

TBH i think it is more activision then blizzard that decided this stuff but they do seem to be inextricably linked now.

 

[UnusualStranger]

Hehe....Lets step into this mess.

Spoiler: Modding

I find this hilarious that so many people are against this. Do people realize that all that fun stuff from before in Starcraft was done by, guess what, modding the game in ways it had never been done before? Changing sounds, maps, how things react....all done pretty much illegally. Meaning that with Blizzard effectively doing this, they might as well say "Thanks for doing all that stuff for us in Starcraft, now screw off. We don't want you doing that to this game." Overall....the modders are not all people trying to break the game into tiny bits and ruin it for everyone. Quite a few are trying to make the game better, or more entertaining for others, or just a laugh for themselves. Mods are what brought people DOTA, and custom characters that you don't usually see in games, and all sorts of interesting ideas that are now so popular because people loved the creativity.

Overall...modders are not evil people for doing what they do. Its like saying all hackers are evil. Sure, there are some out to get you, but there are many others who are doing their best to make things better.

Spoiler: Achievements

You are kidding me, right? Blizzard is worried that imaginary points that count for next to nothing anywhere are somehow good reason to ban people fro using third party mods? Bull. Next..

Spoiler: Multiplayer

Yes, hacking in multiplayer = bad. Valid point. However....they are banning people who use a game in SINGLE PLAYER. The ramifications of this is downright despicable. Its like playing through any game, and doing things that you might not be expected to do. Like in Half Life 2, where you can run around being an ass while a scene is going on. Suddenly, you are banned, because they don't like you running around doing things they don't like in the single player.

If they can show they went online to change their stats and everything, sure, ban em. Otherwise, leave the damn modders alone. They helped make this game big, so shooting them in the back is downright bastardly. Besides....What exactly are they ruining if they go online with different sounds for their characters? They other player doesn't realize that they are getting a small smirk each time they click on a zergling and it sounds like a murloc?

Spoiler: EULA

You know what? We don't read this any more. Wanna know why? Cause most of them have something very simple in them. It is along a very simple line.
We reserve the right to modify the rules or regulations of this EULA at any given time.
Meaning that if they want to, they can go ahead and change a single line in there saying that you will give them everything you own if they find you illegally distributing the game. Also...The EULA by in and itself is a mess. Not only that, it is being used as a tool to pretty much keep you from playing a game how you want to. Want to play a game in a way not imagined before? Too bad. The company says no, and bans you from ever playing it again. Don't like it? Too bad. You now have a small useless disk that is good for nothing because you did something that someone else didn't like..

Also, I can honestly tell you that you will never manage to understand everything in the EULA in the first place. Its filled with all sorts of claims to ownership, a lot of that if you dare do anything to their product, they will hunt you down and eat all your food, then ask for seconds....Point is, this little agreement you sign is bastardly regardless. Its the company behind it that matters. And blizzard right now is being really dickish about the whole game of SC2.

Spoiler: Ownership

Most disgustingly out of all this has come one point. Who owns the game? With Starcraft 2, it seems you don't even own the right to play it. It sounds like YOU should be worshiping them for daring to even let you pay for this game, and that you should play it exactly how they have it, or just don't play at all. I find this the most disturbing, as when I am paying for a game to take home and put on my computer and install files for and also sign up for stupid accounts in order to even PLAY the damn game, its just downright annoying to have to wonder if I will be able to play it the next day on my equipment because I apparently don't have the right to use it because I'm "not playing it how they intended it to be played." Again, the irony being that Starcraft did so well originally because everyone was modding the hell out of it, making it into more things than anyone ever imagined.

Simply put, it seems you can't own anything any more. I am only borrowing it, and at any time, for paying full price for the game, I can be banned from ever using that disk because the company doesn't like what I am doing. Meaning that by paying for this game, I supported them, and I'm sure they love the money, but they don't think I deserve what I paid for full price, and that if I won't simply deal with them and only them, I don't deserve their stuff, regardless if I paid them for it or not.

Regardless..../rant. Sorry for wasting your time. Enjoy your evening. Have fun ripping this to shreds...what have you.

 

[MrJoyless]

Blizzards side of the argument is that many of the trainers can work in multiplayer, however they are banning people who have never even played online in order to keep the integrity of the achievement system

the integrity of the achievement system....this is what gaming has become

when have achievements mattered at all for anything other than epeen measuring

banning people to protect an achievement system is like arresting someone for saying they ate a million cheezeburgers both are lies that hurt utterly no one other than people that REALLY REALLY care too much about cheeseburgers.....

 

[Rofl-Mayo]

This has been going on for a quite a while now and I think Blizzard should stop. Blizzard can go ahead and ban those who cheat online but if you're hacking in single player it's not like you're affecting anyone else. Instead of wasting there time look for single player hackers as well as multiplayer hackers, they should just focus on banning multiplayer hackers.

On a related note I do not play SC or SCII so I may have a different opinion than those who do.

 

[dotamaster]

I think cheating in single player is OK. lol

but in Ladder... that's another story

 

[Ken Sapp]

It's against the Terms of Use policy. They brought this on themselves.

You mean the terms of use which you don't see until you have already purchased the game at the store, taken it home, removed the shrinkwrap(thus being unable to return the software in most stores) and begun installing?

This issue has already come up in court before and been shot down as non-binding since the terms of use are not readily available to be agreed to before the purchase takes place.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.248158.9143478

AS you can see in my later post. There is an explanation and a link to the EULA on the box.

Thank you for the link to your later post. As you can probably assume I don't read the entirety of a multipage thread before making a comment or responding to one that has caught my eye.

To your point, a EULA which is available on the web for perusal prior to purchase is a hazy point at best as it is not a reasonable method of delivery for in-store purchases. Online purchases of digital download or physical product yes, but not when the box is physically in your hands in the store. Add to that the fact that most EULAs contain text which is unenforceable(and sometimes illegal) under the legal system of the land.

But to return to the main point, using a trainer in single player which has no effect on multiplayer is not a reasonable cause for banning someone and removing their ability to use their lawfully purchased software. Multiplayer has different rules due to the fact that it affects others who rightfully expect a level playing field and cheaters should be punished up to and including bans. But until they can show me that there is a measurable game effect on multiplayer from using cheats in singleplayer I will not accept that they are within their rights to take away individuals right to enjoy their lawfully purchased singleplayer game however they want.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

It's against the Terms of Use policy. They brought this on themselves.

You mean the terms of use which you don't see until you have already purchased the game at the store, taken it home, removed the shrinkwrap(thus being unable to return the software in most stores) and begun installing?

This issue has already come up in court before and been shot down as non-binding since the terms of use are not readily available to be agreed to before the purchase takes place.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.248158.9143478

AS you can see in my later post. There is an explanation and a link to the EULA on the box.

Thank you for the link to your later post. As you can probably assume I don't read the entirety of a multipage thread before making a comment or responding to one that has caught my eye.

To your point, a EULA which is available on the web for perusal prior to purchase is a hazy point at best as it is not a reasonable method of delivery for in-store purchases. Online purchases of digital download or physical product yes, but not when the box is physically in your hands in the store. Add to that the fact that most EULAs contain text which is unenforceable(and sometimes illegal) under the legal system of the land.

But to return to the main point, using a trainer in single player which has no effect on multiplayer is not a reasonable cause for banning someone and removing their ability to use their lawfully purchased software. Multiplayer has different rules due to the fact that it affects others who rightfully expect a level playing field and cheaters should be punished up to and including bans. But until they can show me that there is a measurable game effect on multiplayer from using cheats in singleplayer I will not accept that they are within their rights to take away individuals right to enjoy their lawfully purchased singleplayer game however they want.

Well thanks for replying in a civil nature. But in an even later post, I withdrew from this discussion, I couldn't see it ending well for anyone

 

[Ken Sapp]

It's against the Terms of Use policy. They brought this on themselves.

You mean the terms of use which you don't see until you have already purchased the game at the store, taken it home, removed the shrinkwrap(thus being unable to return the software in most stores) and begun installing?

This issue has already come up in court before and been shot down as non-binding since the terms of use are not readily available to be agreed to before the purchase takes place.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.248158.9143478

AS you can see in my later post. There is an explanation and a link to the EULA on the box.

Thank you for the link to your later post. As you can probably assume I don't read the entirety of a multipage thread before making a comment or responding to one that has caught my eye.

To your point, a EULA which is available on the web for perusal prior to purchase is a hazy point at best as it is not a reasonable method of delivery for in-store purchases. Online purchases of digital download or physical product yes, but not when the box is physically in your hands in the store. Add to that the fact that most EULAs contain text which is unenforceable(and sometimes illegal) under the legal system of the land.

But to return to the main point, using a trainer in single player which has no effect on multiplayer is not a reasonable cause for banning someone and removing their ability to use their lawfully purchased software. Multiplayer has different rules due to the fact that it affects others who rightfully expect a level playing field and cheaters should be punished up to and including bans. But until they can show me that there is a measurable game effect on multiplayer from using cheats in singleplayer I will not accept that they are within their rights to take away individuals right to enjoy their lawfully purchased singleplayer game however they want.

Well thanks for replying in a civil nature. But in an even later post, I withdrew from this discussion, I couldn't see it ending well for anyone

I do my best to be civil at all times, if i wouldn't say it to your face I won't say it in a forum. I also agree the discussion really goes nowhere once all is said and done. The people on one side are still going to be disagreeing with the people on the other. Ultimately I would say that singleplayer never should have been hooked to Battle.Net in the first place and leave it at that. Enjoy your day

 

[Spencer Petersen]

Well this is trying to avoid such a similar shitstorm.

They've just made a new storm, just as stinky and about as much of a mess.

Well remember that the Sega plan punished all players who played by the rules just as much as the hackers, and probably more, if you got high on the leader boards from one Zen-like master trance of playing and now have to get lightning to strike twice to get that status back. The hackers there are not punished in any way. With Blizzards method the only real victims are those who are responsible for the problem.

The only way you are affected by these bans are if you actively hacked, which I'm guessing about 99% of the people here haven't. Whereas with Sonic 4, even if you played all by the rules, you got punished.

 

[Gindil]

There are already cheat codes in the singleplayer that Blizzard put in. People who hack it are just plain stupid. And by hacking, they mean Blizzard are banning people using an external programs to cheat.

People who are banned should get over it and learn their lesson.

This. If you want to cheat, then cheat. You don't have to turn to a third-person hack for that, so there's really no excuse.

Hackers eventually ruined Diablo and Diablo 2, as well as Warcraft 3 to a lesser degree, so people should be pleased with this strict enforcement by Blizzard.

Wouldn't have a problem with it but they've done some BS to make this work against their customers.

Bungie handled the hacking thing quite well. Activision... yeah...

And Valve has a decent policy. Blizzard's is just way over the top IMO.

 

[Ameter]

Using modifications/hacks for SP shouldn't be treated that harsly if you ask me. That's plain nuts. If these programs ALSO offered MP hacks, ban those idiots but if not, leave them the fuck alone.

Blizzards side of the argument is that many of the trainers can work in multiplayer, however they are banning people who have never even played online in order to keep the integrity of the achievement system

So you think they should decide on a case by case basis after plunging the logs to find out if the person ever went to multiplayer instead of just banning people who break the terms of service?

Okay.....

 

[Gindil]

What BS? Anybody hacking online needs to be perma-banned on the first offense. No questions asked. This isn't some generic console shooter we're talking about where any random person can get really good in two weeks. Starcraft 2 ladder is seriously competitive, and rightfully so. I stopped playing some time ago, but throughout beta and early release I was serious about playing well (top 10 diamond). And it took some real focus and dedication.

Don't hack, kids...it's an insult to those who have real skill.

The fact that the single player is attached to the multiplayer is the BS part. No, I won't play SC2, even though I may want to see the campaign but having seen the rules, I don't want to abide by them personally. But just because people are using the third party cheats, it's supposed to kill the games for others?

Until we know HOW these people are using them, it's just Blizzard's word against the individual person's. I'd rather they do what Bungie did a while back and detail the process than come out specifically with the banhammer.

 

[likalaruku]

That $60 is essentially a rental fee that only grants you the right to play the game & the developers can revoke it at any time. The only thing you really OWN when you buy the game is the plastic disc it's printed on, the manual, & the box it came in. It's douchey, but this is a plutocracy after all; bow down to your DRM/copyright masters.

Now I would be against Blizzard punishing people for cheating in a single player game, but if they did have cheat codes already in it, then why bother hacking it? Hacking software you're legally only renting access to & don't own would be unnecessary & infringing.

 

[TrollOgerElf]

Its really hard to keep my self inline when i see people Q.Q over cheating or hacking in single player. So very very hard.
If they take it online then yeah ban hammer but banning single players is more like durka durr.
Haters gonna hate.

 

[d3structor]

So you think they should decide on a case by case basis after plunging the logs to find out if the person ever went to multiplayer instead of just banning people who break the terms of service?

Okay.....

Don't put words in my mouth; I never said that and I dislike multiplayer hackers as much as anyone.

I disagree with single player being linked to multiplayer.

I disagree that players are merely licensing single player usage for a full price game

I disagree that the only response is mass bannings

I disagree with the people who hack on the ladders as well.

Also the case by case basis is not as far-fetched as you seem to think, it is not Blizzard doing it but the players who lost games and then watch the replay to find out their opponent hacked. Once a player reaches a certain threshold of reports and/or the game sends a log of suspicious activity to blizzard their account is suspended from the ladder until an Admin reviews the replays at which point official action is taken.

I am one of the people who likes to adjust and mod my things until they suit my tastes so I suppose I am an amateur hacker but I don't think that is a bad thing.

Can I understand why they are doing this? of course.

Do I agree? Obviously not.

Is this the best choice? maybe it is.

My point, if I need to sum everything to a single line, is this:




Why does a company as successful and powerful as blizzard resort to the simplest and arguably worst punishments without regard to anything but online ladders

I can think of a bunch of other methods of dealing with this off the top of my head, so why can't blizzard?

 

[d3structor]

They used the hacks in multi-player, no question. Like I said, there are cheats built into the game as far as single-player goes. And nobody is impressed with someone who has all the single-player achievements, so there's only one possible motive for hacking: building a good record.

Then what about my case: replacing zergling sound effects with Murloc sound effects. is my motive to become a 2k diamond league player?