Blizzard CEO Calls Out Those "Tarnishing Our Reputation as Gamers"

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I can get behind this. I've always been a firm believer in the "Don't be a dick" approach to the Internet and life in general. Anecdotal experience leads me to believe that most people tend not to like people who are dicks and conversely, tend to like people who are not dicks. Thus by not being a dick more people are likely to like me.

 

[DerangedHobo]

"And let's remind the world what the gaming community is really all about."

And what is the "gaming community" about exactly? Seriously, last time I checked it was for me to play games at 3am in the morning with a bunch of other sad losers who still aren't getting laid (present company excluded of course). When did the "gaming community" or "gamers" at large become about some retarded fucking hash tag? I'll start acting like the upstanding citizen of the gaming community when we disarm nuclear weapons and feed the poor.

CAPTCHA: Teflon President

Couldn't agree more.

 

[theNater]

By all means; suggest a permanent, practical solution for a leaderless, loosely organized group of tens of thousands of people who come from all across the spectrum of gaming.

Adopt some leadership? Tighten the organization?

I'm a big fan of being the change one wants to see, so I'd recommend starting up a games journalism website which is 100% ethical. Maybe call it Good Game News(abbreviated to GGNews). Show everybody how it's done. Members of the group can contribute videos, columns, or money, as their circumstances permit. GGNews has a ready-made audience of tens of thousands, and since people wanting ethical games journalism seems to be an under served demographic, that audience can be expected to grow rapidly. Other game journalism sites will have to become more ethical to compete. The editors will become the de facto leaders of the group, and the organization will fall into place based on how people contribute and participate.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Are you honestly saying that Anita Sarkeesian is somehow more credible than Christina Sommers?

Having viewed both of their videos, on that front alone, Sarkeesian comes across as marginally more credible, yes. Or at least significantly less odious.

Sarkeesian suffers from quite a few things, including an apparent lack of familiarity with her source material, a tendency to shortcut to conclusions without properly establishing her argument, and a tendency to pick low hanging fruit.

Sommers affects a smarmy, sneering tone, arrives at grandiose conclusions with zero substantiation, poisons the well against any possible opposition with naked ad hominem attacks, and constantly shifts the goal posts of what she's talking about.

Notably, only one of the two of them bills themselves as "factual".

Sarkeesian comes off as drier and more "good faith" in her videos. She's babbling about her hypothesis. Sommers is evidently on the attack from minute one.

Neither one of them should be celebrated for the academic quality of their video work. If I spent a lot of time demonizing one and then stuck the other on a pedestal just because she was saying something I wanted to hear, I'd be pretty embarrassed at the shortfall in my ability to think critically about the stuff I watched.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see that on a very deep level the populace of the game has something disturbing about it.
Certainly, there are many a nice person out there, but I dare say that's not due to any game mechanic.

Disturbing! Care to expand on that? Do you uncover "disturbing" populations in other games as well, or only this one? Did Blizzard code the game in such a way as to create disturbing individuals?

You are correct, nothing in the game mechanics makespeople nice, just like nothing in the game mechanics makes people awful. People are awful or nice entirely based on their personalities, which they express through the game.

You've identified that some of those people are IMPATIENT, and from this arrived at the conclusion that the people who played the game were "disturbing", and you felt ashamed to be in their company. You'll have to forgive me if I find that a little hyperbolic.

 

[delroland]

Funny, I say the same things about Anita. Who I think is a biased hypocrite.

What do you say to that?

That you're wrong. How much of Sommers' work have you read, exactly? And how many of Sarkeesian's videos have you actually watched as opposed to just blowing everything out of proportion and taking individual quotes out of context? Are you next going to enlighten us about how she was "unable" to name three games on Colbert?

I also dislike your avatar.

Are you honestly saying that Anita Sarkeesian is somehow more credible than Christina Sommers?

Sarkeesian is certainly more credible when it comes to video games than Sommers is. But I thought it was about ethics in game journalism and not feminism...

 

[delroland]

Funny, I say the same things about Anita. Who I think is a biased hypocrite.

What do you say to that?

That you're wrong. How much of Sommers' work have you read, exactly? And how many of Sarkeesian's videos have you actually watched as opposed to just blowing everything out of proportion and taking individual quotes out of context? Are you next going to enlighten us about how she was "unable" to name three games on Colbert?

It's funny how you make assumptions of me......when I was quite confident you would respond this way.
Opinions that differ from yours are not wrong, we see things differently.

See, now you're the one using logical fallacies. You assume that I believe every opinion that differs from mine to be wrong, when in fact I only believe some opinions that differ from mine to be wrong, including yours.

Also, since you were so confident I would respond in "this way", I'm sure you have an actual rebuttal ready?

Edit: let me expand on why you're wrong based on what each of us posted:

I said for Sommers "to be radically opposed to mainstream feminism then to push the notion that she's a better feminist is kind of offensive and hypocritical."

You responded with the quote at the top of this reply.

So please explain to me how Sarkeesian is opposed to "mainstream gaming" and tries to push the notion that she's a "better gamer". Because I don't see it; what I see is someone demonstrating a clear trend in gaming that shows AAA gaming companies cater to a very specific demographic, that of the white male teen to young adult.

Are you saying her theory is completely unfactual? Or are you saying that while she does have a point, she exaggerates its scope?

And how does that make her a biased hypocrite? What's her bias even supposed to be, and how does that make her hypocritical?

Honestly, I think you're just throwing around buzzwords to make yourself sound more well versed on the subject than you actually are.

 

[Something Amyss]

blah, blah, blah *screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech*. That is literally all I hear any more.

Now I'm picturing this whole debate as a fax modem tone.

 

[Augustine]

I see that on a very deep level the populace of the game has something disturbing about it.
Certainly, there are many a nice person out there, but I dare say that's not due to any game mechanic.

Disturbing! Care to expand on that? Do you uncover "disturbing" populations in other games as well, or only this one? Did Blizzard code the game in such a way as to create disturbing individuals?

You are correct, nothing in the game mechanics makespeople nice, just like nothing in the game mechanics makes people awful. People are awful or nice entirely based on their personalities, which they express through the game.

You've identified that some of those people are IMPATIENT, and from this arrived at the conclusion that the people who played the game were "disturbing", and you felt ashamed to be in their company. You'll have to forgive me if I find that a little hyperbolic.

I am not going to write a magnum opus on games at large, but WoW is very fresh in my mind, since I played it quite recently, with an intention to explicitly see the the state of it. I don't know why you think I ascribe negative qualities explicitly to Blizzard games, for I have not said anything of the sort. This is a topic about Blizzard, a company I do not dislike.

The culture of min-maxing is likely culprit for what disturbs me. I felt a tangible pressure to maximize my efficiency, at one particular point, I was told that my thoughts had no value because my stats were sub-optimal (scoundrel that I am, I had less than 40% Haste, you see). Whether you find my take on it hyperbolic or not, it is the genuine reaction with which I recently walked away from WoW. And yet I still think WoW is beautiful in many ways...

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The culture of min-maxing is likely culprit for what disturbs me. I felt a tangible pressure to maximize my efficiency, at one particular point, I was told that my thoughts had no value because my stats were sub-optimal (scoundrel that I am, I had less than 40% Haste, you see). Whether you find my take on it hyperbolic or not, it is the genuine reaction with which I recently walked away from WoW. And yet I still think WoW is beautiful in many ways...

There are absolutely idiots playing WoW. The same idiots can be found in every other MMO on the market, going straight back through EQ and Ultima Online. Also every MOBA, every multiplayer shooter, every RTS. Hell even the one time I played CiV multiplayer there was an idiot in the game.

Gaming is full of these personalities. Hyper competitive infants who thrive in the anonymity the internet provides them. They shit talk ruthlessly because they know it upsets you, view their opinion as writ, and shit on anyone who doesn't enjoy the same type or method of game play that they do. If you debate them, they'll look for any ***** in your armor with which to denigrate your perspective by attacking you.

WoW does not produce these people. It doesn't even encourage them. As MMO communities go, it is entirely standard, and as multiplayer communities go, MMOs are generally less toxic than their strictly PvP focused brethren. I have absolutely no issue with someone saying MMO communities are not for them, or that they had a bad experience in WoW. I could sit here and talk your ear off all day about the assholes I've met while online gaming, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. But that's the PEOPLE causing that problem. Not the GAME. Try design an asshole-free multiplayer experience, see how you do with that. Hell, Hearthstone doesn't even allow written communication and motherfuckers were trolling in what felt like every 2nd game.

As for the "culture of min-maxing"...WoW is probably one of a handful of the most forgiving, casual-friendly MMOs on the market. Go spend 15 minutes in Wildstar and come back and tell us about the culture of min-maxing.

TLDR - Assholes are assholes. It's not the game's fault.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

See, now you're the one using logical fallacies. You assume that I believe every opinion that differs from mine to be wrong,

Except I didn't say that....At all.

when in fact I only believe some opinions that differ from mine to be wrong, including yours.

Yeah, and in this case I find that to be stupid.

Also, since you were so confident I would respond in "this way", I'm sure you have an actual rebuttal ready?

I've had this conversation probably over fifty times. On the Escapist and elsewhere, it goes nowhere.
I'd rather not waste my time.

I'll point out flaws in Anita's videos, you'll say I'm nitpicking. I'll explain why her logic doesn't work, you'll give an explanation that I don't accept.

We've chosen our sides. The debate goes nowhere.

This might be a pessimistic view, but I'm sure both of us will continue to be good people outside of the internet.

 

[Ipsen]

I think the problem is more underlying than that. I think that WoW promotes, at a fundamental and mechanical level, a very low regard for other players /as people/ that makes such misbehavior inevitable beyond the background noise of basic human jackassery.

....how so?

I could see MAYBE making this argument about a MOBA, although blame still lies squarely with the players. How is WoW, which is predominantly a cooperative game, "fundamentally and at a mechanical level" an enticement for harassment?

Personally, I'd argue that WoW, and really many MMO(RP)G's are not cooperative, despite the title (which doesn't actually state 'cooperative', note).

MMO's that are like (or are) WoW have many players (and thus people) in them, but a large chunk of the goals and rewards are personal. 'Grind for YOUR skills, gear, levels, craft mats, etc.' is the basis of games like these, and while this allows players the freedom to forge out alone or venture with parties at will, it still overheads the notion that you don't (specifically) need other players. When people start noticing the differences in others along some of those 'grind' facets(IE: I have better gear/skills/etc. than you) it becomes all the easier to devalue another player, and thus another person. Tends to only get nastier from there.

Only MMOG I've seen recently that alleviates this problem is Guild Wars (ONE, not 2). The nature of its skill bar limits and how each profession is built with gaps, practially FORCING players to cooperate with one another (you learn early on that if you go alone without a very specific build, ur ded), or at best teaches you cooperation as emphatically fundamental. But GW1 was also decidedly based around PvP (it also clearly stated itself as 'cooperative RPG').

I can't say that WoW and typical theme-park MMORPG's reach into players and makes them jerks (if we're even going that far), but I would say most MMORPGs' cardinal sin is that their typical selfish mechanics tend to enable jerks, by ignoring or lacking mechanical incorporation of the Massive amounts of other players around each other.

Yes, I think the games have to do that much. Or at least a bit more. Think about it; in game, how many discrete ways do you have to communicate with other players in most MMORPG's? Chatbox most notable and sophisticated (this should say something), a party menu for raids/PvP, MAYBE skill combinations.... This is the area I think MMORPG's are STARVED in providing, and they're kind of boring to me now unless they improve this; the most fun MMO's I've played found ways around this dearth, and they're all notably older.

 

[Augustine]

snip
TLDR - Assholes are assholes. It's not the game's fault.

I sympathize with the notion that those who wish to do mischief, will do so irregardless of the environment they are in.
But I still hold developers responsible for how their product is used. Developers may have good intentions, but I place no importance whatsoever upon intentions, only tangible outcomes.