Blizzard Says DRM is a "Losing Battle"

Stickey Jackson

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I hate traditional DRM as much as the next guy, but is anyone else worried that we may see too many steam-like programs propping up? I mean with Impulse trying to gain momentum, isn't it possible we could have platform exclusives? I interpret Steam as an ALTERNATIVE to traditional retail as well as a means to use platform unity when it's advantageous. I fear for the day I'll have to have Steam, Impulse, Battle.net and a dozen other programs just to access my full library of games.
 

Billion Backs

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I do agree. Harsh DRM is in no way motivating me to actually buy the game (not that I would ever pirate anything. Ahem... >_>) but extra features and content sounds good.

And yes, Steam is indeed DRM, although given that it's generally used on computers and computers, in the modern world, seem to be connected to the internet almost 100% of the time, it's a lot less noticeable. And there are all the cool features, especially the shop.
 

ReverseEngineered

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Apr 30, 2008
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I'm glad they are speaking out against DRM, but it all seems like doublespeak to me.

They're going to make something that pirates can't get, but paying users can. But isn't that what DRM was supposed to do? They still suffer from the same problems: paying users may be held out just like the pirates. StarCraft II still won't have a standalone server or LAN play, which the beta testers will be happy to tell you is a serious misgiving (just trying staying on a Battle.net server long enough to finish a match). If you have a dodgy internet connection, or if you aren't connected, you won't be able to get achievements.

StarCraft II is such a bad example, because like most online games, the fact that you have to be online to play them isn't a hindrance, it's a necessity. It was an entirely different story when Ubisoft did it because they did it to a single player game, where an internet connection should never have been an issue.

The new "not DRM" system seems to be a lot like the old DRM system, just a little more relaxed. You'll still be able to play your game, but you'll lose many of the features of the game. I suppose that's better than losing the game entirely, but it's still a major drawback. You still need to sign-up for an account, you can't resell it or give it to a friend, you can't get your money back if you don't like it or it doesn't work, and you'll still lose access to many features if something beyond your control happens (like a server going down). Friends lists and online achievements are fine, but they really aren't much of a carrot.
 

Eldarion

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tkioz said:
Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
Calling anything "Un" is a call to arms for the malcontents in the world who just see as a challenge, hell even nature took exception to the dreaded "un" as evidenced by the unsinkable ship sinking in it's first voyage.
Fun fact, white star line never said that the titanic was unsinkable. They never used the word once.
 

SpecklePattern

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Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
That is the point (and I have always agreed with that thought on the "fool proof anitpiracy things".) And thats why I see the efford to improve battle.net more efficient in many ways. And I can't wait for the SC2 :)
 

Pearwood

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DividedUnity said:
Also does anyone else think this is just blizzard trying to get advertising for SC 2? Making a piracy statement and then including of we think weve done it right in our new soon to be released game.
Well yeah, if I'd just spent so much time and money developing something I'd take any opportunity to advertise it I could get. I don't think it's fair to judge them on that, I'd be doing the exact same in their position and so would you and everyone else.
 

Kouen

Yea, Furry. Deal With It!
Mar 23, 2010
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rembrandtqeinstein said:
The reason I feel safe buying Steam games is 100% of them are available on the pirate bay. Otherwise I would never purchase a piece of software that has to ask someone other than me permission if it can run. I run cracks on all my legitimate software just because the none of the DRM crapware provides any kind of value for me.

Steam isn't bad with the exception of autopatching rather than letting you choose whether or not you want to patch.

Starcraft 2 will not include lan play so that is a no sale. Remember spawn copies in SC1? So you can quickly get your friends playing? Yeah no more of that.

As a casual (couple hours a week gamer) paying for a WoW sub doesn't appeal to me. There are a ton of good free MMOs out there. http://www.ddo.com/ http://www.allods.com/ http://www.freerealms.com/ are all great to hop one, play a couple of hours of quests, then ditch.

That said I am coming back for Cataclysm those bastards. Re-making the old world was the only thing that would pull me back in.
I Remember Spawn Diablo 1 xD
 

tkioz

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May 7, 2009
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Dark Templar said:
tkioz said:
Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
Calling anything "Un" is a call to arms for the malcontents in the world who just see as a challenge, hell even nature took exception to the dreaded "un" as evidenced by the unsinkable ship sinking in it's first voyage.
Fun fact, white star line never said that the titanic was unsinkable. They never used the word once.
Bah facts have no place getting in the way of witticisms
 

jerrrry

I Miss Doraleous.
Oct 26, 2009
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ReverseEngineered said:
I'm glad they are speaking out against DRM, but it all seems like doublespeak to me.

They're going to make something that pirates can't get, but paying users can. But isn't that what DRM was supposed to do? They still suffer from the same problems: paying users may be held out just like the pirates. StarCraft II still won't have a standalone server or LAN play, which the beta testers will be happy to tell you is a serious misgiving (just trying staying on a Battle.net server long enough to finish a match). If you have a dodgy internet connection, or if you aren't connected, you won't be able to get achievements.

StarCraft II is such a bad example, because like most online games, the fact that you have to be online to play them isn't a hindrance, it's a necessity. It was an entirely different story when Ubisoft did it because they did it to a single player game, where an internet connection should never have been an issue.

The new "not DRM" system seems to be a lot like the old DRM system, just a little more relaxed. You'll still be able to play your game, but you'll lose many of the features of the game. I suppose that's better than losing the game entirely, but it's still a major drawback. You still need to sign-up for an account, you can't resell it or give it to a friend, you can't get your money back if you don't like it or it doesn't work, and you'll still lose access to many features if something beyond your control happens (like a server going down). Friends lists and online achievements are fine, but they really aren't much of a carrot.
I never had connection trouble during the Starcraft 2 beta, and I also never had someone disconnect during a match I was in, so I'm not sure what you are talking about with beta testers unable to stay on b.net long enough to finish a match.
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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Jofrak said:
I honestly think the main problem these guys are going to come up against when they attempt for this 'carrot' steam-esque approach is that steam is already out there. How many people are going to want to put steam on their computer ..... and battle net, and Ubisofts version, Games for microsoft online or whatever that load of crap is, the EA version along with every other company that brings one out?
Basically I think it's going to be difficult to oust steam as a mainstay of the PC gaming experience and companies that are electing that response instead of 'stick' anti-piracy DRM are going to really have to pull something out of the bag for it to be as big a success.
Frankly, I love steam, but I think that challenging its monopoly is a GOOD thing. I'd be glad to see Battle.net join, say, Impulse as a legitimate challenger to Steam.
 

ReverseEngineered

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Apr 30, 2008
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jerrrry said:
ReverseEngineered said:
I'm glad they are speaking out against DRM, but it all seems like doublespeak to me.

They're going to make something that pirates can't get, but paying users can. But isn't that what DRM was supposed to do? They still suffer from the same problems: paying users may be held out just like the pirates. StarCraft II still won't have a standalone server or LAN play, which the beta testers will be happy to tell you is a serious misgiving (just trying staying on a Battle.net server long enough to finish a match). If you have a dodgy internet connection, or if you aren't connected, you won't be able to get achievements.

StarCraft II is such a bad example, because like most online games, the fact that you have to be online to play them isn't a hindrance, it's a necessity. It was an entirely different story when Ubisoft did it because they did it to a single player game, where an internet connection should never have been an issue.

The new "not DRM" system seems to be a lot like the old DRM system, just a little more relaxed. You'll still be able to play your game, but you'll lose many of the features of the game. I suppose that's better than losing the game entirely, but it's still a major drawback. You still need to sign-up for an account, you can't resell it or give it to a friend, you can't get your money back if you don't like it or it doesn't work, and you'll still lose access to many features if something beyond your control happens (like a server going down). Friends lists and online achievements are fine, but they really aren't much of a carrot.
I never had connection trouble during the Starcraft 2 beta, and I also never had someone disconnect during a match I was in, so I'm not sure what you are talking about with beta testers unable to stay on b.net long enough to finish a match.
Have you played since patch 13 came out? Several of my coworkers and I all preordered to get the beta a couple of weeks ago. Everything was fine until patch 13 came out on Friday. We have barely been able to play a complete game since. Usually you try to create a game and it hangs out for awhile before it says it couldn't find a server. If we're lucky enough to get in, one of us usually loses connection and times out within a few minutes. It's been a complete write-off all week, which is even more unfortunate, because we had a LAN party last weekend and couldn't get into a server all weekend.
 

Eldarion

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tkioz said:
Dark Templar said:
tkioz said:
Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
Calling anything "Un" is a call to arms for the malcontents in the world who just see as a challenge, hell even nature took exception to the dreaded "un" as evidenced by the unsinkable ship sinking in it's first voyage.
Fun fact, white star line never said that the titanic was unsinkable. They never used the word once.
Bah facts have no place getting in the way of witticisms
What's even funnier is that the titanics watertight bulkhead design was in fact, more safe than anything else on the water at the time. I would take an ridiculously large wound to sink the ship, but they never said it couldn't sink. But the sad thing is that while the watertight bulkheads were state of the art and a lot of effort went in to making the ship very hard to sink, no one thought to bring enough lifeboats for everyone.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Haven't had a game "disconnect" me from my Single player when i bought it on steam/runs on steam <.< and the fact i can start the games on offline mode makes it a much preferable DRM than the completely fascist MUST BE ONLINE TO PLAY PERIOD approach of UBISOFT and EA w/ C&C4

So as long as STEAM doesn't require CONSTANT online when i'm playing a Single player game, ill take the lesser of 2 evils any day :p

sadly tho, while the article title makes it sound like Blizzard may understand the plight of the PCgamer they are gonna combine both evils, features like STEAM with always-online drm. its Steam with more fail >.<
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
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Anoctris said:
Andy Chalk said:
StarCraft 2 [http://www.starcraft2.com/] comes out on July 27 and will require a [HEADING=2]one-time online activation[/HEADING] and [HEADING=2]a Battle.net account[/HEADING], pretty much identical to Valve's activation requirements for Steam. [HEADING=2]After that, the single-player campaign will be available in an offline mode.[/HEADING]
Well, I don't hear trumpets sounding, see any horseman on the horizon, nor any elder gods stepping from portals of eldritch magic to devour my soul for all eternity.

Damn. I could've sworn that common-sense, when harnessed by a game company would've surely called for nothing less than the shattering of the universe. I hate being wrong.
That's because TrackMania United Forever had a very similar set up. In fact, I think they omitted the one-time activation. Pity the developer got bought out by Ubisoft...

DTWolfwood said:
sadly tho, while the article title makes it sound like Blizzard may understand the plight of the PCgamer they are gonna combine both evils, features like STEAM with always-online drm. its Steam with more fail >.<
Your failure to read the last line of the news article has been noted.
 

Marmooset

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Dark Templar said:
tkioz said:
Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
Calling anything "Un" is a call to arms for the malcontents in the world who just see as a challenge, hell even nature took exception to the dreaded "un" as evidenced by the unsinkable ship sinking in it's first voyage.
Fun fact, white star line never said that the titanic was unsinkable. They never used the word once.
It's true.
They regretted the whole "Iceberg-Proof" slogan, though.
 

Eldarion

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Sep 30, 2009
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Marmooset said:
Dark Templar said:
tkioz said:
Corum1134 said:
When will they learn that calling something *unbreakable* or *uncrackable* is just a call to arms for hackers?
Calling anything "Un" is a call to arms for the malcontents in the world who just see as a challenge, hell even nature took exception to the dreaded "un" as evidenced by the unsinkable ship sinking in it's first voyage.
Fun fact, white star line never said that the titanic was unsinkable. They never used the word once.
It's true.
They regretted the whole "Iceberg-Proof" slogan, though.
Can you imagine the board meeting of executives at white star the next day? I would pay to have been a fly on he wall that day.
 

mogamer

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hyperdrachen said:
It is as much protection as is prudent, stops more casual pirates that might just hand yon buddy the disc.
So you consider loaning a game out piracy?
 

geizr

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Oct 9, 2008
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ReverseEngineered said:
I'm glad they are speaking out against DRM, but it all seems like doublespeak to me.

They're going to make something that pirates can't get, but paying users can. But isn't that what DRM was supposed to do? They still suffer from the same problems: paying users may be held out just like the pirates. StarCraft II still won't have a standalone server or LAN play, which the beta testers will be happy to tell you is a serious misgiving (just trying staying on a Battle.net server long enough to finish a match). If you have a dodgy internet connection, or if you aren't connected, you won't be able to get achievements.

StarCraft II is such a bad example, because like most online games, the fact that you have to be online to play them isn't a hindrance, it's a necessity. It was an entirely different story when Ubisoft did it because they did it to a single player game, where an internet connection should never have been an issue.

The new "not DRM" system seems to be a lot like the old DRM system, just a little more relaxed. You'll still be able to play your game, but you'll lose many of the features of the game. I suppose that's better than losing the game entirely, but it's still a major drawback. You still need to sign-up for an account, you can't resell it or give it to a friend, you can't get your money back if you don't like it or it doesn't work, and you'll still lose access to many features if something beyond your control happens (like a server going down). Friends lists and online achievements are fine, but they really aren't much of a carrot.
I think you may be suffering "Wizard's First Rule" here. Blizzard is not saying DRM itself is a losing battle; they are saying specifically harsh DRM systems are a losing battle. A less intrusive, less locked-down system that includes a set of convenient features, e.g., Steam, has proven to be a more accepted system by gamers. This, I believe, is where Blizzard is going: develop a DRM system that provides value the pirates cannot give or obtain except by legal purchase, while providing little to no hinderance to those who have legitimately paid into the system.

Being able to control the distribution of content and ensuring the reception due compensation for the effort in creating such content is not an unreasonable action or desire on the part of any content creation or publishing business, in my opinion. If a business cannot make a profit, it won't stay in business for very long, which means you will eventually lose the producer of the content you desire. The problem that has occurred, however, is the extreme draconian measures that many businesses have pursued that has only served to increase cost for them, de-value the content(through extreme and unnecessary restrictions) for the paying customer(I hate the term "consumer" because of the dehumanizing connotation; but, that's just my ideological nitpick), and has failed to abate piracy in any manner(in fact, it has mostly served to give reason to increase it, as people rebel against such tyrannically imperial tactics). This, I think, is Blizzard's point, that such particular measures are simply counter-productive for everyone but the pirates(the pirates don't care because nothing stops them anyway).

EDIT:
An anecdote I wanted to share regarding piracy: piracy may not be abatable by DRM systems because most DRM systems presume that the pirates are located outside the originating studio. This, however, may be a false presumption. This possibility was emphasized when a friend of mine showed a DVD copy of Avatar he obtained while in Korea, a couple months before the DVD was actually released world-wide. This was not a "shaky-cam"/cell-phone-video bootleg of the theater run. This looked like it was an original cut from the master information, as in the original hard-drive holding the movie. While the image quality was definitely poorer than normal for a DVD(having extra blockiness, which is easily attributable to the person not having a good grasp of compression software), it had none of the properties that usually occur with a theater bootleg: people walking in front of the camera, shaky image, faded colors, extremely poor quality sound, poor contrasting, extreme graininess in the image, cut or zoomed image to eliminate silhouettes of people walking in front of the camera(makes you wonder why in the hell anyone would pay, even if stupidly cheap, for a bootleg). If the pirate is employed in the studio with unhindered access to the original information, no DRM scheme will ever stop him.
 

ratix2

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Andy Chalk said:
Steamis DRM. This is a fact.
i really have to disagree here, not because its not true (it is) but rather your wording.

steam ACTS as a drm method, but saying steam IS drm is completly ignoring its primary purpose as a digital distribution platform. going by your logic one could say that gog is drm as well because you have to sign into your account to download anything off the site once purchased, but gog is about as much drm as postal is a game for young children. again, im not disagreeing with you, only the wording everyone uses whenever this comes up. steam is NOT drm, its a digital distribution platform whos secondary purpose is to act as a drm method, and a pretty acceptable one at that.

just once id like to see someone mention impulse, d2d or any of the other "drm's" out there that never get mentioned.