Blizzard Squeezes $88 Million From Private Server Owner

[Housebroken Lunatic]

I don't really think it's that unfair. It's like how they used to cut off your hand for robbery. It's not about proportionate punishment, it's stopping anyone else from even thinking about committing the crime.

Are you stupid?

Cutting off someones hand for robbery is insane, and it would just show that the society permitting such cruel and disproportionate punishment is no better than the robbers themselves.

World of Warcraft = Crap, and so is it's parent company...

 

[wiredk]

"Someone is pirating our servers!" "WE MUST OVER REACT IMMEDIATELY!"

Honestly Blizzard has every right to enforce their copyright. You can't really blame them for doing that.

But what you CAN blame them for is being so soulless that they utter destroy that single individual's ability to lead a normal life. The disgorged profits would of been fine, the attorney fees would of been fine.... But an amount that no NORMAL person can make in their lifetime? Thats a death penalty.

All the more reason to just stop giving blizzard money.

 

[Signa]

I might have a seriously bent moral compass but I am not sure where the big problem is. The way I think about things is that expansion through creative means should always trump the concept of copyright and patent. Essentially this is my thought process.

Buying a game to support development [Good], Paying blizzard to play on Blizzard servers [Good], Modifying code to play on own server [Good], Modifying code to play on Blizzard servers for free [Very Bad], Allowing others to connect to own server for free if they have paid for their own game discs [Good], Creating additional content for an existing game [Good], Charging for content you created [Good], Charging for content you did not create [Very Bad].

From this perspective, as long as everyone is in ownership of original game discs and the server is privately run, and only originally made content is part of a micro-payment system then there shouldn't be an issue.

I agree that it is a violation of a company's licensing agreement but that is something that can usually only be read in full usually after buying, opening, and installing a game, at which point in most places it cannot be returned or refunded, therefore creating a one-sided agreement. That would parallel to agreeing to a strip search upon entering a building because of the sign on the far wall opposite the door.

The part I don't understand is the lawsuits, if people have a demand for something why not supply that demand? Instead of wasting time, money, and resources on lawsuits for media attention why not use the private server model as a ground for scouting consumer trends then incorporate your findings into your intellectual property and make more profit? Lawsuits just seem to me like blizzard is crying over someone making blinky swords and telling court to beat them up instead of making their own bigger better blinky swords and getting both the profit at the same time drawing attention away from those trying to detract from intellectual property. Wouldn't everyone then win?

It's as if Blizzard never thought that others can't compete with them but they can control the world through force of law which I don't agree with.

This is the part that bugs me the most. Essentially the legal system is being used for enforcing control and not maintaining a state of competition in which the economic system is supposed to be based on. This would be a very simple case to judge if that was kept in mind.

The defendant would be ordered to pay maximum 30% of profits for using intellectual property for personal gain. This would be solidified in a licensing agreement in which if Blizzard uses any new content from the private server in their system the cost would be reduced to 10%.

Blizzard would be fined heavily for failing to establish that their company suffered significant damages as a result of this situation. This fine would be reduced if they establish a system of authorized content usage and licensing so that more court cases like this don't have to tie up the legal system.

The defendant wins in that they continue running their server, although at a lesser profit margin. Blizzard wins in that they make money off of unofficial content usage. The court system wins from not having to deal with these types of cases as often and gets to collect big legal fees from this case. The consumer wins in that they get more choice over what they want and there is more competition to keep things interesting.

I just had to give props to both of these very forward-thinking posts. If only things worked the way you think.

 

[ExileNZ]

Whatever happened to the cease-and-desist? That seems pretty over-kill. It's not like she'll ever be able to pay that off.

Then again, debt-for-life seems to be Blizzard's running model...

She ignored the C&D. She reaped what she'd sown, really.

It's still total overkill. Did you go over the speed limit? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you pirate your copy of that game? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you d/l those mp3s illegally? 88 million dollar fine... each!

Total. Fucking. Overkill.

People are still paying for their subscription, even if they're on a private server. It's not like the money's going anywhere other than Blizzard's pocket.

 

[Valksy]

Sooo..
1) She decides to run a private server but not only satisfied with pirating blizzards game she makes profit of it as well, profit going into the millions of dollars.
2) She was given a cease and desist. At this point she could have shut down the server and walked away with the 3 mill in illegal profit.
3) She ignores the C & D and tries to keep making money. Blizzard then makes a court case out of it.
4) She ignores the summons to court, doesn't show forcing the judge too award the high amount of 88 mill.

...and half of you guys are saying how mean blizzard is and how its so unfair and too feel sorry for her?

Sorry but shes a god damn dumb ass, a greedy one at that.

Decent summary.

This thread has me shaking my head and getting pissed that people are enforcing the general perception that gamers are stupid kids. All the "blah blah Bizzard is mean" and "blah blah Blizzard has mo' money" stuff is just wantonly ignorant.

The stupid ***** didn't bother to engage a lawyer, I doubt she will bother to consult an accountant who will give her proper guidance in to a declaration of bankruptcy. No one - NO ONE - expects this woman to pay 88 million. It is largely a symbolic judgment against a private individual that should give all the warning necessary to any businesses or larger concerns that might try to pull a similar stunt. And it is a sum could have been avoided altogether if she obeyed the C & D or got off her stupid arse, paid for a lawyer with the 3 million she earned, and showed up at the bloody court.

 

[GothmogII]

Whatever happened to the cease-and-desist? That seems pretty over-kill. It's not like she'll ever be able to pay that off.

Then again, debt-for-life seems to be Blizzard's running model...

She ignored the C&D. She reaped what she'd sown, really.

It's still total overkill. Did you go over the speed limit? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you pirate your copy of that game? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you d/l those mp3s illegally? 88 million dollar fine... each!

Total. Fucking. Overkill.

People are still paying for their subscription, even if they're on a private server. It's not like the money's going anywhere other than Blizzard's pocket.

Umm, what are you talking about? If they were playing on paid private server, the money is most certainly -not- going to Blizzard. Unless you meant the money from people buying the game disc, however, the client is also downloadable isn't it?

Secondly, while I agree that the 88 million is a tad extreme, you're still ignoring the fact that Ms.Reeves made 3 million off her micro-transactions. So it's not an apt comparison to compare it to downloading a game or mp3. And would be more like running an operation that pirates entire libraries of DVD's of Games or Music, and we certainly don't find those people in the right do we?

 

[Corvuus]

I still don't understand how you can say pirating =! stealing.

it is like 'borrowing forever and never returning nor paying for it'. It is stealing.

Just because it is 'intangible' as opposed to a physical product does not make it NOT theft.

I'd like you to prove the converse of pirating a product is not stealing the product.
----

I also like how you completely ignored or didn't understand my examples.

When I mentioned anime/manga, I stated that there are several free online sites where you can watch/read anime/manga. If the material isn't licensed yet in the U.S. (or where you live) then you can watch/read it without direct legal threat. There is a shift where companies are sending out more cease-desist, being stricter etc. and several sites have closed/taken down manga/anime etc..... but that isn't the main point.

The main point in comparison is this: If a anime/manga website translated, hosted/posted an anime/manga etc. *AND* charged money for it, then it is ILLEGAL. Even if the work isn't copyrighted where they live, it is illegal to make money off of it.

Just to repeat it again, it is illegal to charge and make money off of 'fansubs'. It doesn't matter that the 3rd party put in "work" (like translation/typesetting, etc.) that 'improved' the original material to its' target audience. It is ILLEGAL.

What this private server/defendant did is ILLEGAL. Offering a service people wanted (like people want translated anime/manga) is not 'illegal' per se (private server hosting) but earning money directly from it (as opposed to free donations for server cost, i.e. not 3 million+, micro-transaction) is ILLEGAL.

If you believe that what the defendant did is 'legal' then in terms of slippery slope, a lot of things are legal. I could take and translate a foreign work, then sell it. I did "work" on it, I offered a service people wanted, i didn't hold a gun to anyone's head. etc. etc. The slippery slope keeps going until nothing is 'safe'/copyrighted.

C

 

[Hateren47]

I'm sure Blizzard feel pretty awesome suing someone for $88 million but they would have to let them keep the servers open, for them to ever get anywhere near that much. Not hating on Blizzard here but it seems a little optimistic.

 

[Sliverwings]

http://www.88speed.com/catalog/images/pwned1.jpg

 

[Gindil]

"I'd like you to prove the converse of pirating a product is not stealing the product. "

The concepts of mashups are one avenue in music. Djing is still popular. Here's one of the digital era mixers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Talk_(musician)] I found from the Remix Manifesto [http://films.nfb.ca/rip-a-remix-manifesto/]

Artist fighting with their label =! piracy [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Mouse_and_Sparklehorse_Present:_Dark_Night_of_the_Soul#Legal_dispute_with_EMI]

You again have the GAO report that I linked to earlier, where it talked about people buying counterfeit products, knowing they were counterfeit, but then saving up for the actual good at a higher price. (Ex: Buying a $50 Prado bag instead of the $500 Prada)

The fashion industry thrives, even though one of the major labels tries to "copy" lesser known [http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2009/04/23/copycat-style.aspx] labels. Only reason? "It was an honest mistake." Pfft...

Weaker copyright laws lead to a more robust society [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/file-sharing-has-weakened-copyrightand-helped-society.ars] - (Recording industry may not be making as much money, but the music industry is doing quite well)

If you believe that what the defendant did is 'legal' then in terms of slippery slope, a lot of things are legal. I could take and translate a foreign work, then sell it. I did "work" on it, I offered a service people wanted, i didn't hold a gun to anyone's head. etc. etc. The slippery slope keeps going until nothing is 'safe'/copyrighted.

No, if she's giving the people what they want and asking for donations, then that is fine. If they're making higher donations for the bigger weapons, I fail to see how this is egregious harm when other places do the same thing (League of Legends comes to mind, as well as WoW itself with the $25 mounts)
But, she's using the money in extremely bad manners as I linked to in the post before. I just don't like the end result as an egregious amount. Something over 10x what she brought in is kind of a lot. Especially when there's no possible chance to pay it back.

 

[rapidoud]

Good luck getting me in another country.

Oh wait, I forgot, they're American. They want to fuck you, and the world, up OR ELSE. If you pursue them in America, it's considered terrorism. If they pursue you, it's patriotism.

All I can say is, they can try and get me and see the international backlash.

 

[Gindil]

And who are you again?

 

[martin's a madman]

Well then, I suppose that's one more future prostitute?

Well, I mean, she has to do something to get money.

 

[Der Kommissar]

O.J. Simpson had to pay $33.5 million when he was held liable for the deaths of Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown. Blizzard is claiming that emulating their toy is worth almost three times more than the lives of two human beings. This seems slightly askew.

Hehe, welcome to +2000. Technical, semantic crimes are more severely punished than crimes threatening the lives of people.

 

[GothmogII]

If you believe that what the defendant did is 'legal' then in terms of slippery slope, a lot of things are legal. I could take and translate a foreign work, then sell it. I did "work" on it, I offered a service people wanted, i didn't hold a gun to anyone's head. etc. etc. The slippery slope keeps going until nothing is 'safe'/copyrighted.

No, if she's giving the people what they want and asking for donations, then that is fine. If they're making higher donations for the bigger weapons, I fail to see how this is egregious harm when other places do the same thing (League of Legends comes to mind, as well as WoW itself with the $25 mounts)
But, she's using the money in extremely bad manners as I linked to in the post before. I just don't like the end result as an egregious amount. Something over 10x what she brought in is kind of a lot. Especially when there's no possible chance to pay it back.

donation [dəʊˈneɪʃən]
n
1. the act of giving, esp to a charity
2. a contribution

As in, you give someone money with no expectation of receiving something back in kind. What Miss.Reeves has (apparently) been doing, is trading. It's certainly not 'donating' when someone -buys- one of those Mounts from Blizzard. So I don't see why you think it is with this case in question.

This dips into whether or not data can be considered property. And, for the most part, I'd agree that it really doesn't matter if it's a CD or DVD or Game here and there, even if a million individuals do it. But when you have an organisation or individuals making money hand over fist, with products that they have outright stolen, even if in the case of a Private server they offer something that the legal owner doesn't, I can't believe such a person or person is the least bit justified.

If Miss Reeves is so dedicated to offering a service that Blizzard won't provide, why doesn't she go make her own damn MMO? In comparison, is it also okay to borrow a book from the library, scan it, print it on cheap paper and claim the work as my own? I mean, I'm offering the book to people for cheaper than a bookstore, and can supply more than the library, so it's all good right? Doesn't matter if the author sees not a penny from my earnings, right?

 

[Gindil]

donation [dəʊˈneɪʃən]
n
1. the act of giving, esp to a charity
2. a contribution

As in, you give someone money with no expectation of receiving something back in kind. What Miss.Reeves has (apparently) been doing, is trading. It's certainly not 'donating' when someone -buys- one of those Mounts from Blizzard. So I don't see why you think it is with this case in question.

This dips into whether or not data can be considered property. And, for the most part, I'd agree that it really doesn't matter if it's a CD or DVD or Game here and there, even if a million individuals do it. But when you have an organisation or individuals making money hand over fist, with products that they have outright stolen, even if in the case of a Private server they offer something that the legal owner doesn't, I can't believe such a person or person is the least bit justified.

If Miss Reeves is so dedicated to offering a service that Blizzard won't provide, why doesn't she go make her own damn MMO? In comparison, is it also okay to borrow a book from the library, scan it, print it on cheap paper and claim the work as my own? I mean, I'm offering the book to people for cheaper than a bookstore, and can supply more than the library, so it's all good right? Doesn't matter if the author sees not a penny from my earnings, right?

Again, since I didn't play on the server, I don't have all of the data. She asked for constant "donations" through solicitation. Not only that, but it's suspected that she gave better weapons to others for higher donations. So instead of Weapon of Epeen +1 it's +5. If they were unique weapons to her server, then that's one thing. Plenty of smaller servers usually build custom tools. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. What no one is answering is how it's worth $88 million dollars of "damage"

I've given my reasoning of how it could be fair to everyone involved. She gives Blizzard the 3 mil is one thing. But even in default the $88 million is the large thing I continue to find as an egregious amount as stated.

Regarding your example, Google Books is great to read. Acts as a great plagiarism tool, and people can preview a book before committing to a purchase. Google - greatest thing to happen to communication since the VCR.

 

[JFSOCC]

File for bankruptcy, it sucks but after that, there's really nothing more they can do.

 

[ExileNZ]

Whatever happened to the cease-and-desist? That seems pretty over-kill. It's not like she'll ever be able to pay that off.

Then again, debt-for-life seems to be Blizzard's running model...

She ignored the C&D. She reaped what she'd sown, really.

It's still total overkill. Did you go over the speed limit? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you pirate your copy of that game? 88 million dollar fine!
Did you d/l those mp3s illegally? 88 million dollar fine... each!

Total. Fucking. Overkill.

People are still paying for their subscription, even if they're on a private server. It's not like the money's going anywhere other than Blizzard's pocket.

Umm, what are you talking about? If they were playing on paid private server, the money is most certainly -not- going to Blizzard. Unless you meant the money from people buying the game disc, however, the client is also downloadable isn't it?

Secondly, while I agree that the 88 million is a tad extreme, you're still ignoring the fact that Ms.Reeves made 3 million off her micro-transactions. So it's not an apt comparison to compare it to downloading a game or mp3. And would be more like running an operation that pirates entire libraries of DVD's of Games or Music, and we certainly don't find those people in the right do we?

In the right? No, I believe we find them in Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllOfMP3).
Now if the lass made 3M that puts it in a whole different perspective. How long was her system up to make that kind of dough? If it was only a few months then 88M starts sounding like a good disuasion.

 

[[.redacted]]

Blizzard's Lawsuit crits Scapegaming for $88,000,000.
Scapegaming dies.

 

[xXDeMoNiCXx]

Funny enough I had a friend who played on that server years ago and this ***** apparently was the very definition of greedy, she didn't care at all about the community she just wanted as many people as possible to buy items and give her more money, money that she said was gonna go into upgrading the server hardware and stuff to make it better but not even a penny of it didn't just go straight into her botttomless pockets and if anyone even said a single word against her she would ban them instantly and that was that. She deserves every bit of this.