Bloodborne: Could it be Demon Souls 2 in disguise?

rorychief

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Here's why I think it might be. (DS spoilers and potential BB alpha spoilers inbound)

{The plot of Demon's souls concerned battling the old one, the source of all magic and demons. Soul magic was harnessed by sorcerers using the old one's power, while clerics used miracles to call on god's power. Clerics despised sorcerers for seeking power from the demonic old one, and believed miracles were a tool given by god so that Clerics might fight the demons off. A twist came in the form of an item which revealed that god and the old one were one and the same entity, clerics and sorcerers just chose to interpret it differently. This item was called the 'Talisman of Beasts', and its description goes:

An old wooden amulet resembling the Old One.
It can utilize both miracles and spells.
The symbol of God was nothing more than the Image of the Old One.

Interesting. On to Bloodborne Alpha.
Watching playthrough's there are a couple of things that suggest Bloodborne exists in a post old one world. In the city of Yharnam people are slowly turning into beasts, it is not a curse, but a blood-borne condition our hero seeks to cure himself of. There is no magic, no demons nor souls, things the old one introduced and could conceivably have taken as it exited the world. Not to mention the obvious connection to beasts (ie. the talisman of beasts), bloodborne was after all codenamed project beast.
Also, Alpha testers found a way to climb a bench and roll over a fence into an area where they clipped through the floor. This happened until the final day of the alpha when the floor was suddenly solid and they could follow a path which ended in a boss battle with a human, becoming a beast halfway through the battle. If the boss defeats the player it quietly says 'Umbasa' over your body, a blessing heard in Demon souls and associated with Clerics and God. Miazaki has denied in interviews that bb is connected to ds, but the obtuse way this discovery was made leads me to suspect Miazaki orchestrated it purposefully as a hint, as he is want to do.

So maybe Yharnam is a world where god/the old one has left, and human's are reverting to their primal forms without the souls that had uplifted them. Far fetched maybe, but Umbasa is a pretty big giveaway seeing as how that word has no meaning outside demon souls. If I wanted to go one step further, and I do, I would say the cleric beast boss from BB looks eerily similar to Manus of the Abyss from the Dark souls dlc. See the twisted antlers, wolf legs, and disproportionately elongated left arm covered in long grey fur. And since the cleric beast is an example of a human gone extremely far down its regression into beast, and Manus is the primal human, it makes sense that humans would be regressing to a Manus state, and so there could be a connection here between all three worlds. But now I'm just speculating.

P.S. Also I would love if Marvellous Chester appeared in BB, he's already travelled from another world and time to be in Oolacile, might as well be Yharnam he came from. And he's dressed appropriately victorian. Ok. Maybe I'm going too far now. So.
What do you think?}
 

Duster

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Good find, but from does this occasionally. I believe there was also a reference in dark souls to kings field but they didn't really work from it.

Would you suspect that this could be a civilization during the age of man?
 

rorychief

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Duster said:
Good find, but from does this occasionally. I believe there was also a reference in dark souls to kings field but they didn't really work from it.

Would you suspect that this could be a civilization during the age of man?
I haven't the foggiest, but it sure would be a hell of a lot more interesting than what Dark Souls 2 did with a prolonged age of fire.I suppose it was meant as a snarky nod to the repetitiveness of contrived sequels to frame everything as a never ending cycle. But it did welcome the comparison between the idea of the first flame weakening with every rekindling and dark Souls 2 being a pale shadow of it predecessor. And I quite like the idea of entropy being the natural state of things and the (anti)dawn of the age of man being inevitable after a set amount of increasingly weak rekindlings(sequels). And now that you've suggested it I'm having a hard time not falling in love with the idea of Bloodborne being a fresh start and a whole new age(I.P.) distinct from those before it, while carrying on the old themes and some (moderate) fan service in the form of room for fans to speculate and fill in the gaps in lore.
 

Darks63

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Seem more likely that its just a callback to the older games to me. Dark 1 has some and Dark 2 is full of em. The Demon souls ip is owned by another company that might be making a DeS 2 so it could be a poke at that too.
 

Riotguards

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to be honest the convenience of the floor becoming solid seems planned, perhaps its just an Easter egg and nothing more

a bit of fan service you could say
 

GloatingSwine

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rorychief said:
P.S. Also I would love if Marvellous Chester appeared in BB, he's already travelled from another world and time to be in Oolacile, might as well be Yharnam he came from. And he's dressed appropriately victorian. Ok. Maybe I'm going too far now. So.
What do you think?}
Based on his use of the Sniper Crossbow, and his general demeanour, Marvellous Chester is from Carim.


People are basing the connection on literally one word at this point, which is p. weak.
 

Lovely Mixture

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Riotguards said:
to be honest the convenience of the floor becoming solid seems planned, perhaps its just an Easter egg and nothing more

a bit of fan service you could say
I doubt it. This shit happens all the time in betas, demos, and finished games. They leave stuff in whether by accident or just cause.
 

Azure23

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Darks63 said:
Seem more likely that its just a callback to the older games to me. Dark 1 has some and Dark 2 is full of em. The Demon souls ip is owned by another company that might be making a DeS 2 so it could be a poke at that too.
Sony owns the demons souls IP (not the Souls IP in totality) but Atlus published it in the west. Sony also funded it and co developed it (utilizing their own Sony Japan Studios) with fromsoft. This is the exact same development strategy as Bloodborne. If Bloodborne takes place in a pos old one world, it could be a reason why Sony owns the rights for it as well. And yeah Fromsoft usually puts callbacks in their games, but those are usually very specific things, Patches and the moonlight GS were in several armored core games fer chrissakes. These callbacks usually take the form of a specific object repurposed to fit into the game lore, not phrases, for example the moonlight gs was just a really really good wave projectile shooting energy blade in armored core (if memory serves). Umbasa really has no meaning outside of Demons Souls lore. I'm much more hesitant to draw a conclusion between dark souls' manus and the cleric beast because The Big M has conclusively (for cereal guys) stated that demons and dark souls does not take place within the same universe.

Honestly the only reason I'm so giddy about this particular theory is because I absolutely adored demons souls and have always wanted a story continuation of it. But let's be clear, Atlus does not own the rights to Demons' Souls, and Fromsoft is always the one making the Souls games, no other development studio (except Sony Japan studios) have ever contributed to them. All Altlus owned was distribution rights in the west, much like Namco Bandai for Dark Souls 1 and 2.

Edit: also the human boss in question translates to Priest Gascoigne and his second form Gascoigne (beast form), so we've got priests saying Umbasa.
 

Megamatics

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I'm more worried about the game being in the Vein of Dark Souls 2 than I am expecting it to be near as good as Demon Souls.
 

rorychief

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GloatingSwine said:
rorychief said:
Based on his use of the Sniper Crossbow, and his general demeanour, Marvellous Chester is from Carim.


People are basing the connection on literally one word at this point, which is p. weak.
People is me is it. Or are you addressing your audience. :)
 

GloatingSwine

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rorychief said:
People is me is it. Or are you addressing your audience. :)
You are included in people.

You are not the only person I have seen put this forward though, and even by the standards of "figuring out what the hell is even" in Souls, which is largely like trying to put a jigsaw together when you don't have a picture of it and the cat's chewed half the pieces, these are amazingly tenuous connections.
 

Lunar Templar

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I think ....

It's to early to start drawing those comparisons just yet. Miazaki has been know to troll the Soul's Player base before so it would surprise me if he was trolling you all (No PS4/PS3 so not getting BloodBorne, sadly :/).

Still, I personally hope it turns out to be true because it would be kinda cool.
 

default

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Could be. It's possible, but I don't think it will be so. The 'Umbasa' is probably just a nod/easter egg to Demon's. I think it will be its own contained world.
 

rorychief

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GloatingSwine said:
Ah sure I was only trynna get a wild speculation party started. I'm just excited for the game and hoped to draw a more blue skies crowd rather than poo poo hard canon purists. Not the right site for that I suppose. Bout time I put a failed thread to bed. Good luck to you and happy playing. :)
 

ninja666

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It's just a reference, that's all. Just like you can find the Moonlight Sword, which originated in King's Field, in every Souls game.
 

GloatingSwine

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ninja666 said:
It's just a reference, that's all. Just like you can find the Moonlight Sword, which originated in King's Field, in every Souls game.
Also both Otogi games, Enchanted Arms, and many of the Armored Core games.

Giant robots confirmed for Bloodborne?
 

Darks63

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GloatingSwine said:
ninja666 said:
It's just a reference, that's all. Just like you can find the Moonlight Sword, which originated in King's Field, in every Souls game.
Also both Otogi games, Enchanted Arms, and many of the Armored Core games.

Giant robots confirmed for Bloodborne?
You jest but it is possible since both thew tower knight and the iron golem are kinda robotish. Also considering that the setting of Bloodbourne is victorianish its possible that steam punk automatons could be bosses.
 

ninja666

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GloatingSwine said:
Well they did mecha-piloting shonen hero president of the united states once, so nothing is beyond them.
So FROM did Saints Row 4 before Volition? They should sue.