Blue (Skin) State

MovieBob

New member
Dec 31, 2008
11,495
0
0
ccesarano said:
MovieBob said:
An American Carol - a much-publicized attempt to stake out alternative ground in the mostly-liberal world of cinematic political comedy - was a box office disaster.
How was that, anyway? Was it actually full of good points or only enjoyable if you were, in any way, Right Wing. Either way I might rent it for my Dad and sister, who are unthinkingly Republican Conservative.
It's... problematic, but I have trouble dismissing it outright. In a way, I wish it was better, because I'd prefer to be able to engage it's points (almost all of which I vehemently disagreed with) on merit rather than having the endpoint always being "badly made." In filmmaking terms it's a complete mess - sloppy, scattershot and cheap-looking with no sense of consistent tone: One minute we're doing slapstick, the next minute the "hero" - a one-note caricature of Michael Moore - is being time-warped back to the freshly-destroyed WTC wreckage on 9/12 to be lectured on patriotism by the ghost of George Washington. Really.

The main problem seems to be that the director, Jerry Zucker, isn't a lifelong "conservative" but rather a liberal who's been "shell-shocked" into Republicanism by 9/11, a'la Dennis Miller; so the film is less about "satirizing" the left than it is about self-directed anger. All the "best" bits come early on: The spirit of JFK appears to the Moore character to point out that he was actually a "pro-military" president, a present-day anti-Iraq War protest time-dissolves back to a 1940s anti-WWII isolationist protest and a visit to an alternate-future America where African-Americans are still slaves because Lincoln was "anti-war." Now, obviously, I don't "agree" (even a little) with the "point" being made here, but at least it's a new spin on the debate backed up by some thought. The rest of it, though, is just dopey slapstick (a trio of terrorists who act like the Three Stooges,) awful running gags ("Gaaah! Zombies!!" "No... It's the ACLU!!!!!") and shameless pandering (a Trace Adkins USO concert.)
 

JUMBO PALACE

Elite Member
Legacy
Jun 17, 2009
3,552
7
43
Country
USA
While I do think that every American should vote, I suppose many see it as pointless when the Electoral College elects the President anyway and the common people's votes are essentially meaningless. This outdated and unnecessary system was implemented when most of the citizens were ignorant farmers and has no place in the modern world.
 

syndicated44

New member
Apr 25, 2009
1,009
0
0
I still havent seen it. I wanted to when the first ad I saw just showed a giant robot and something akin to a dinosaur fighting said robot. However the more I heard about it the less I wanted to watch it. The political undertones are all well and good but whatever happened to stupid action movies?

Seriously the ones with no real story, Arnold would run up say something stupid then go fight (insert random baddie here.) I get that Avatar was most likely a very carefully laid out plan by the boys in marketing and it paid off better then they could have imagined.

James Bond even pulled this, I am postive the world is a much better place without any more pussy galores, however I still wanted a baddie who's palace was on the moon where he is using alien mutant dog to win dog races all over the world so he can secretly fund his reasearch to build a giant death ray and hold the world hostage. See the shit writes itself. Its stupid but its fun.

REALLY I want to go the movies and feel entertained, not have to be taught something, and I want to do this all without having to see a comedy about tits and nerds and college kids (they have done it before and much better, you all can stop now please.) Yea sure I could ignore the message and just focus on the action but it just ruins the experiance as a whole for me, a movie about the future should have futurisitic worries, not a long drawn out lecture (with explosions) about the current state of the world. We get enough of this every day.
 

sarahvait

New member
Nov 6, 2008
441
0
0
Nimbus said:
Do people still applaud in Cinemas where you live? I don't think I have ever heard people clap at a screen before...

Or was it just a metaphor?
Actually, when I saw The Mist in theaters,

pretty much everyone in the audience started clapping or cheering when the religious zealot lady got shot in the head. If I wanted to over analyze, I could say that this is a statement saying that the filmmakers believe religion is a bane on the world and causes more evil than anything else (I hear this on The Escapist on occasion). But, I'm pretty sure it was the same sentiment that, as Bob said, made the audience in Avatar cheer at Colonel Quaritch's death. We were all just really, REALLY glad to see the evil ***** finally shut up and die.
 

mykalwane

New member
Oct 18, 2008
415
0
0
Well the thing I don't get was, didn't a similar storm happen when Furgully came out. Just seems like an old argument that has been done to death. This might be harking back to the point made in the Game Overthinker about Countinuty, that this is just coming back time and time again because people need to go threw this. I am sure I am probably wrong here, but the whole argument seems to be beating the old horse of there is a lot out there, that will eventually run out of. Which I think is true about any item etiable or not, since there is generally a finite amount of things out there. Since a good chunk of people might be going into debt might be a good reason to remind people of that. Still I don't get why there is any argument or discussion there in the first place. Most of the people doing the arguing seem to be arguing the same thing they always do when they can be fashionable by saying x equals there thoughts.
 

Triangulon

New member
Nov 20, 2009
477
0
0
Very interesting points. I have to agree but I did love it. However I would like to address 'poorly-aged Dances With Wolves'. Poorly aged? I watched it again post Avatar and I have to say I believe it is still one of the greatest films. The messages are still important as are the feelings it evokes. Of course films do age but in many cases (including this one) I fail to see how it has happened particularly badly. The acting and script has not become worse. The film quality has not deteriorated. The locations are still stunning. I think ageing will be more of a problem for many of today's cgi-reliant (not necessarily avatar mind you) when they are outstripped by technology.

Edit.
mykalwane said:
Well the thing I don't get was, didn't a similar storm happen when Furgully came out.
Did you mean Ferngully (The Last Rainforest)? If so great film.
 

Amarsir

New member
Jul 7, 2009
93
0
0
You are right on, Bob. I and most of my family/friends are various shades of conservative.
And we shared some collective eyerolling about the anvilicious plot of Avatar. But when you get down to it, none of us really cared about any intended or perceived political message of the movie. Like it because of the awesome effects, or dislike for the cliche, but the bearing of this fictional plot on the real world is nonexistent.

(However, I *have* heard something akin to this from some Libs I know: "So Pandora is totally Iraq you know, now do you get why Bush was evil?" With a straight face. Seriously, that's the best you've got, guys? Yeah I'm not worried about any trend.)
 

whaleswiththumbs

New member
Feb 13, 2009
1,462
0
0
I'm not sure how "woodland" you can call that hell-of-a-place.

I loved the movie, even if i was about to pass out at the end, for no reason at all.
 

Ayrav

New member
Dec 12, 2008
274
0
0
Very interesting read Mr. Chipman. You're easily my favorite Escapist contributor. The point that popular culture transcends politics because a large majority of the population don't care or associate with politics is a striking statement. That assessment speaks volumes about the current state of the US and the world. Keep up the great work!
 

mykalwane

New member
Oct 18, 2008
415
0
0
Triangulon said:
Very interesting points. I have to agree but I did love it. However I would like to address 'poorly-aged Dances With Wolves'. Poorly aged? I watched it again post Avatar and I have to say I believe it is still one of the greatest films. The messages are still important as are the feelings it evokes. Of course films do age but in many cases (including this one) I fail to see how it has happened particularly badly. The acting and script has not become worse. The film quality has not deteriorated. The locations are still stunning. I think ageing will be more of a problem for many of today's cgi-reliant (not necessarily avatar mind you) when they are outstripped by technology.

Edit.
mykalwane said:
Well the thing I don't get was, didn't a similar storm happen when Furgully came out.
Did you mean Ferngully (The Last Rainforest)? If so great film.
Yes, though I just remember it as Ferngully. Though ironically enough the sequel proved how bad a movie can be if the only purpose of a movie is for propaganda.
 

ArtVSscience

New member
Oct 28, 2009
46
0
0
I recall them saying the same about The Star wars prequel trilogy. My political views are libertarian, so I'm not too paranoid to see the movie was mainly about the environment and the mistreating of romanticized natives/ethnics. However I entered the movie expecting a blast of socio-political "environmentalism" i.e: "green" rhetoric, PETA, Global Warming theories topped off with a heaping of human evil and cruelty. However I was pleasantry surprised by the subtleness of it all. I use the word subtle not in a subversive way but actually to refer to the lack of world view; also the fact the James Cameron was open about the environmental themes in movie makes it inapplicable . The humans also were not as hopeless as I expected. I am biased because I absolutely loved the Movie.


Wow sometimes I amaze myself. I just compared this to my curse filled rant from this morning about Frumpy mom.


And the McDonald's Avatar marketing is really stupid, I mean who in their right mind would go out to McDonalds after seeing a bunch of fit blue people jump and swing for three hours, bloody americans I guess. I climbed the tree in my back garden when i got home and sat there for awhile.
 

Knight Templar

Moved on
Dec 29, 2007
3,848
0
0
Satosuke said:
Oh come on, Bob. The 'they're mercenaries' excuse is a paper-thin cop-out and you know it. If Cameron really wanted to hammer home that specific fact, he would have actually gone into some detail as to what the hell said corporation actually does, how it amassed enough money to create its own space armada, and where the bulk of their mercs actually came from. I'm assuming that the majority were former soldiers.
They took orders from a guy intrested purely in the stock value of his company, I'd say it was more a point about PMC's than the US miltiary.
 

Ericb

New member
Sep 26, 2006
368
0
0
Although there is a hint of political stance in that movie, it's by no means deep. It treatss mosts of its subjects on a mildly superficial level, which is ok because in this case it wasn't going for depth.

More interesting is the love/hate relationship Cameron seems to have with the military. On one hand showing their training-induced stupidity and on the other gloryfying their universe, especially their weaponry.

It happened in Aliens and even more so on Avatar.

300lb. Samoan said:
Video games are hardly ever examined through theoretical frameworks. The only example I could point to is the current Escapist article about video games as a reflection of male insecurity [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_235/6978-Vaginophobia]. It's something that needs to be done for the interactive arts to become a truely appreciated expression.
As more and more people have this opinion, I see hope for the future of games.

Panda Mania said:
Avatar is a hit. Why? Because it's entertaining. Simple as that.
It's only as simple as stating the essential nature of "entertainment".
 

Dorian Cornelius Jasper

Space Robot From Outer Space
Apr 8, 2008
396
0
0
Nimbus said:
Do people still applaud in Cinemas where you live? I don't think I have ever heard people clap at a screen before...

Or was it just a metaphor?
I've seen it happen twice: Once after Avatar, once after Fellowship of the Ring.
 

zirro

New member
Jan 10, 2010
3
0
0
There is an (oddly) direct linkage to American military culture in Avatar, Bob. Both Jake Sully and the antagonist commander claim to be Marine First Recon. That's a very specific, elite division of America's Marine Corp. The book & HBO series "Generation Kill" was written by the journalist embedded with them during the 2003 Iraq invasion. Those couple lines of dialog were the one bit of Avatar that temporarily spoiled the immersion for me in an otherwise great movie.