Bobby Kotick Not Worried About The Old Republic Competing with WoW

[rsvp42]

The revamping part in Cataclysm is not just cosmetic, the core gameplay for most classes has changed, the philosophy for levelling has changed (levelling is no longer a grind, you can do 1 - 60 in 3 days now, and quests are now fun I will admit, it's no longer about kill X for Y and collect Z amount, one quest is actually a homage to Plants Vs Zombies), each zone has a main story which you follow to a resolution so it makes it more involving, dungeons now have a difficulty curve so they start off easy and get progressively harder, I could go on and on about the changes going into Cataclysm to make it better but I already sound like a brown nose, and people here will think I'm just trying to promote it.

From what I've seen it's definitely smoother and better designed. But I wish they hadn't tossed out all the challenge. They sped up leveling so much in previous patches that now all this new, better-designed content is just flying by so fast. Not to mention how easy it's become to solo in past years. It was always possible to solo level, but now quests that require groups are so few and far between. I liked the trade-off there used to be where you could solo, but you had to give up some tougher quests with better rewards to do it all the way to max. They've neutered the multiplayer element outside of instances, which some people may like, but I feel has made the game quieter and less vibrant.

 

[rsvp42]

That much vaunted story of theirs is also going to be their downfall. What do they expect people to do once they're through with it? Sit with their thumbs up their ass and wait for expansion packs?

Isn't that what WoW already does?

TOR is going to have endgame content, that much is sure, so it won't be any worse than WoW in terms of things to do after the story is "complete," but no one can say now how engaging it will be. I think leveling alts will be a more interesting and varied experience though, assuming story is actually different between classes and factions. Not to mention the branching paths any given story can take. I agree that keeping players engaged between content releases is vital though, and will be a big part of TOR's success (or lack thereof).

 

[littlewisp]

Tor sounded interesting to me, but after WoW's Shattering I'm gonna be sticking there. I used to hate questing, now I keep finding myself blown away by the cohesive storylines in each zones. Shooting raiders trying to steal from a caravan off the back of a wagon? YES. Dealing with treachery and watching a new warchief drop a treacherous and murderous blaggard off a cliff? YES. Watch a war kodo and its master freaking obliterate the enemy while I get to ride along? YES.

Tor will appeal to some people certainly, but those like me already enamored of the warcraft universe and dazzled by the new Azeroth will need a year before we even think of checking Tor out.

Best of luck to Tor though -- Blizzard needs some competition, as I feel that it breeds the best creativity.

 

[Caliostro]

For all their skill in making single player/small server MP RPGs, Bioware don't have even a moderately successful MMORPG to their name.

Neither did Blizzard before WoW.


Mind you, I don't think ToR will "kill" WoW... In fact I'm expecting a massive flop that will put APB to shame. My point was, that's not a very good argument.

 

[RaQin]

I think SW:TOR can take a decent bite out of the WoW customer-base if two things happen:

1) TOR delivers solid PVP and Endgame/Raid content from day 1 (most new MMO's fail here)

2) TOR avoids releasing early to meet publishing demands from EA if the game is not truely "GOLD" (i.e. Star Trek: Online, AoC, or Champions; Cryptic MMO's bites)

I've played WoW for 5 of it's 6 years, and I am a huge Star Wars fan as well (since '77). While I know quite a few people are just tired of WoW, I don't think that ANYONE really expects TOR to take over WoW. I think it is resonable to expect a large chunk of players to make the switch from WoW->TOR if the gameplay is equally solid, if for no other reason than play in a fresh environment. Remember, if only 10% of WoW players leave to play TOR, that is a solid 1.2 million accounts for TOR!

Just so you know where I am coming from: I plan to make the switch to TOR, but I will be back to WoW if TOR fails to deliver, regardless of my love of a galaxy far far away.

Cheers,
RaQin

 

[Anaklusmos]

The revamping part in Cataclysm is not just cosmetic, the core gameplay for most classes has changed, the philosophy for levelling has changed (levelling is no longer a grind, you can do 1 - 60 in 3 days now, and quests are now fun I will admit, it's no longer about kill X for Y and collect Z amount, one quest is actually a homage to Plants Vs Zombies), each zone has a main story which you follow to a resolution so it makes it more involving, dungeons now have a difficulty curve so they start off easy and get progressively harder, I could go on and on about the changes going into Cataclysm to make it better but I already sound like a brown nose, and people here will think I'm just trying to promote it.

From what I've seen it's definitely smoother and better designed. But I wish they hadn't tossed out all the challenge. They sped up leveling so much in previous patches that now all this new, better-designed content is just flying by so fast. Not to mention how easy it's become to solo in past years. It was always possible to solo level, but now quests that require groups are so few and far between. I liked the trade-off there used to be where you could solo, but you had to give up some tougher quests with better rewards to do it all the way to max. They've neutered the multiplayer element outside of instances, which some people may like, but I feel has made the game quieter and less vibrant.

The whole point about zones going by quick is to give 1 - 60 better replay value, if you breeze through Kalimdor only hitting half the zones, you're more likely to make three more characters to quest in Eastern Kingdoms and the other half of Kalimdor, it also makes it easier to switch faction because you'll be hitting 80/85 quicker meaning it's easier to get settled and find out if the grass is greener.

I agree with the group quests, because what with everyone levelling an alt again there are quite a lot of people in low level zones who you can group with, but I think Blizzard is, with phasing, trying to set the scene of you as a hero, a protector of Azeroth, all events happen now by your interaction with phasing, if you aren't there to push the button the story in that zone will never progress and so you become the main hero, the protagonist.

 

[InevitableFate]

I lost interest in TOR the moment they showed that it would be following the 'holy trinity' class model that ruins MMOs.

I was under the impression that TOR was designed to permit any character class to fulfill any of the roles (healer, tank, dps) and that you could even reasonably expect to solo with NPC helpers. I'm probably missing something here. Could you elaborate on what you mean?

You don't seem to realise the problem the original poster, and indeed myself, have with the Holy Trinity. It's not the ability for classes to fill those roles, it's the existance of those roles itself.

The game tactic of tank, healer and damage dealer is utterly ridiculous. It's the product of poor AI, yet has somehow managed to pervade even modern MMOs.

 

[LogicNProportion]

Kotick is probably right, TOR will have it's 15 minutes but that's about it. As much as I hate to admit it, WoW is a juggernaut.

Bear in mind, TOR isn't Bioware per se but ex-Mythic, with some ex-SOE employees, working under the Bioware name. Bioware themselves are pretty committed to Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

As to F2P for TOR - very likely. Recouping the $100 million budget for TOR is gonna be tough. And if the rumours are true that $300 million has been spent on it then I can't see TOR pulling enough from subs alone.

Well that's some quality bull you're saying there, bud. :/

Not about the money, you're right about that...but about the development team. I know plenty of people who work for ACTUAL BioWare who are working on TOR. One being my new acquaintance, RollForInitiative, on our very own Escapist.

I just hope TOR will last long enough so that I can join the team when I get out of college a few years from now...

 

[Jodah]

I lost interest in TOR the moment they showed that it would be following the 'holy trinity' class model that ruins MMOs.

I was under the impression that TOR was designed to permit any character class to fulfill any of the roles (healer, tank, dps) and that you could even reasonably expect to solo with NPC helpers. I'm probably missing something here. Could you elaborate on what you mean?

"Holy Trinity" refers to pvp mainly and its about what class has an advantage over another. Tank beats dps, dps beats healer, healer (caster) beats tank. Rock Paper Scissors if you will. Often times the advantage is so great that an unskilled player can beat a skilled player if the appropriate class matchup is made. Most people would rather have fights be determined by skill.

It may temporarily dent the titanium armored behemoth that is WoW but I expect it to fail just like every "WoW killer". People will play it, realize its not as good as they thought it would be, then come back. I know because I did the exact same thing with Warhammer. Some will stay with it but most will either give up mmos all together or go back to WoW. With Cataclysm making it easier for new players to get into the game any losses will easily be overcome.

So you've played the game?

No but unless this game has somehow incorporated everything that Blizz has learned over the past 6 years, while remaining within budget for a single game (remember WoW is 4 games at this point), it will almost certainly go the way of all other "WoW-Killers". You know...like AoC, WAR, Aion, CoH, FFXI, Star Trek Online, etc.

 

[Fappy]

I'm probably going to be dropping WoW for ToR when it comes out and if its good enough. I have a boner for Bioware (and Star Wars) so if it fails to deliver I'll be disappointed, but at least I'll have WoW to go back to... and ME3 of course.

 

[Valksy]

Bioware are working on releasing a game that is as polished as possible. Seems to me that a lot of the so-called "WOW Killers" were released when they were barely working and only partially complete - with the hope of filling in the gaps before the players drifted off.

That might have worked in 2005 but with so much competition out there, retention of people after the first month is key and a broken or content-light game just won't cut it any more.

Now I played WoW for 5 years and it was a damned good game and the overall quality was exceptional. I tried most other things as they launched (D&D, Aion, Tabula Rasa, AoC, FInal Fantasy etc etc) and they ALL struck me as barely working. And I don't just mean the servers, I could forgive that because all the load testing at the end of Beta doesn't really ready them for 24 hour live running. The games just didn't flipping work right.

If Bioware release something with some quality, a distinct mission statement of what is to come and enough content for the people who will level hard from the get-go, they have a chance. This is 2010 (and it will be 2011 on release), the old model does not work any more.

 

[Cowabungaa]

From what I've seen it's definitely smoother and better designed. But I wish they hadn't tossed out all the challenge.

I don't think they have. The fact that it took longer to level isn't much of a challenge, it just, well, takes longer. As for group quests, the ones that are there and the ones I did I wouldn't call hard either. As far as I can remember they had 2 modes; impossible on your own, piss-easy with some folks. When leveling my Warrior I try to do them on my own, in that case it is a challenge.

I love the game, content and gameplay-wise it's so much better now, if anything I find it more challenging now thanks to the relatively recent inclusion of certain challenges in the form of achievements, a good way to give the player more choice, to make the fight/game as hard as they want. I like that, giving people freedom to play the game as they see fit.

I guess you're right about the multiplayer part of it though. It's so easy to just group up with randoms and it's actually more rewarding than finding a solid group to play with on your own server, a group you can bond with and adventure with. I wish they would reward that a lot more, promote that a lot more.

 

[Racthoh]

"Holy Trinity" refers to pvp mainly and its about what class has an advantage over another. Tank beats dps, dps beats healer, healer (caster) beats tank. Rock Paper Scissors if you will. Often times the advantage is so great that an unskilled player can beat a skilled player if the appropriate class matchup is made. Most people would rather have fights be determined by skill.

Ehh never, ever heard the trinity referred to like that. Rock paper scissors, yes, but not tank, dps, heals. Tank takes the damage/aggro of everything, dps make the boss die, healers keep tank up.

 

[Jodah]

"Holy Trinity" refers to pvp mainly and its about what class has an advantage over another. Tank beats dps, dps beats healer, healer (caster) beats tank. Rock Paper Scissors if you will. Often times the advantage is so great that an unskilled player can beat a skilled player if the appropriate class matchup is made. Most people would rather have fights be determined by skill.

Ehh never, ever heard the trinity referred to like that. Rock paper scissors, yes, but not tank, dps, heals. Tank takes the damage/aggro of everything, dps make the boss die, healers keep tank up.

Like I said, its mostly for pvp rather then pve.

 

[rsvp42]

The whole point about zones going by quick is to give 1 - 60 better replay value, if you breeze through Kalimdor only hitting half the zones, you're more likely to make three more characters to quest in Eastern Kingdoms and the other half of Kalimdor, it also makes it easier to switch faction because you'll be hitting 80/85 quicker meaning it's easier to get settled and find out if the grass is greener.

I agree with the group quests, because what with everyone levelling an alt again there are quite a lot of people in low level zones who you can group with, but I think Blizzard is, with phasing, trying to set the scene of you as a hero, a protector of Azeroth, all events happen now by your interaction with phasing, if you aren't there to push the button the story in that zone will never progress and so you become the main hero, the protagonist.

Fair points. The phasing is great and should be an essential element in MMOs. I'd be disappointed if TOR didn't use a similar solution. I did that quest in Redridge where you move the boulder off of that one guy and I was so relieved to see that it actually made a difference and he didn't just go back to being crushed in an endless loop until the next expansion. I guess that why it's such a shame to see the leveling become such a breeze. It's like they're making the quests better and more meaningful, but they're making the character building experience so simplistic and rushed. There's such a focus on getting to max level, that actually having a max level character doesn't really mean anything.

Ideally, an MMO would find ways of making every part of the experience mean something and would find ways of making even lower level quests and decisions have an impact on your final character. That's something that BioWare's story style might be able to provide, since entire story arcs could open or close based on one decision at level 10. Notice I say "might" because I have no idea how the story will work in the end, but theoretically it could do the job... I'll admit, I probably shouldn't hold anything against WoW. Considering it was made 6 years ago, it's done an amazing job of keeping itself successful and implementing new ideas. But at the same time, with its aging mechanics and trend towards a more casual play style, I feel that it's slowly painting itself into a corner. But my opinion is far from fresh, having played WoW off and on for so long, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[VanityGirl]

I wouldn't be worried about TOR beating WoW. I was really into TOR's idea, but then Cataclysm popped its head up. Cata has had a lot of face time on TV and many internet ads all over, so I think the advantage goes to WoW.

Let's be honest, more advertising= more people playing your game.

 

[thahat]

Anyone want to start a betting pool on when SW:TOR goes Free-to-Play plus premium content?

a year and 2 months is my bet

 

[rsvp42]

I don't think they have. The fact that it took longer to level isn't much of a challenge, it just, well, takes longer. As for group quests, the ones that are there and the ones I did I wouldn't call hard either. As far as I can remember they had 2 modes; impossible on your own, piss-easy with some folks. When leveling my Warrior I try to do them on my own, in that case it is a challenge.

I love the game, content and gameplay-wise it's so much better now, if anything I find it more challenging now thanks to the relatively recent inclusion of certain challenges in the form of achievements, a good way to give the player more choice, to make the fight/game as hard as they want. I like that, giving people freedom to play the game as they see fit.

I guess you're right about the multiplayer part of it though. It's so easy to just group up with randoms and it's actually more rewarding than finding a solid group to play with on your own server, a group you can bond with and adventure with. I wish they would reward that a lot more, promote that a lot more.

Exactly, I feel like there used to be more of a focus on that, but Blizzard saw a lot of soloing going on and decided to facilitate that instead. The dungeon finder and all that is a great help, but it makes other players seem like commodities instead of real partners. It's like it's become a solo game where other players are there for our convenience when needed.

I can see what you're saying about the leveling, but when they speed it up like this, it's like nothing matters until 80 (or 85 now, I guess). Like there's no point in buying new gear ever, or enchanting, or crafting. Why bother when it'll be useless in a few levels? It's becoming just an obligatory blur in the way of the top-level stuff. The new quests help make it all more pleasant and fun, but it's doesn't actually make it more important.

I dunno, I'm probably just complaining too much. Just a member of the old guard pining for the good old days like a war veteran. Part of me feels like leveling a character to the top was more impressive before, but maybe I'm just seeing the past through rose-tinted glasses?

 

[Zarmi]

For once I agree with him. Unless TOR starts to get some serious improvements (Basing this on all that I've heard, seen and read about the game), I predict it will do like Warhammer Online did. Great subscribing numbers for a few months, then die a quiet death.