Bobby Kotick Says California Law is "Beyond Absurd"

SelectivelyEvil13

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I grudgingly have to agree with him on principal, but that does not stop him from being a money-fondling, conceited, and myopic prat. What? Is he concerned that all of the prepubescent twits in California won't be able to buy the next Call of Duty?

With the argument in question, it's astonishing how the government now is "supposed" to take charge of parenting over what video games are acceptable for children. The faults in logic astound me as well; who bought little Johnny that bloody Xbox in the first place? If a parent is so concerned that a video game may actually contains the soul of Beelzebub and will possess little Susie to eat the neighbor's cat, why do they buy the game no questions asked and not even watch her play it? Even if innocent Billy purchases "Soul Sucker: Sin and Slaughter," where in the hell is going to play it? I don't think video games can corrupt a normal person, let alone by huffing the lint off the instruction manual somehow sneaking to play the game in a dark back-alley with those gosh-darn shadowy, back-alley entertainment centers.

This proposed law is a petty waste of tax dollars to pacify sententious dolts, especially considering how screweed up California is right now. It is also why I support a counter-law to restrict incompetent indolents from raising children.
"Proposal: Control Your Damn Offspring!"
 

108Stitches

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Physics Engine said:
rockyoumonkeys said:
Okay, so you've explained all that, I still don't see where it even affects me. Instead of buying "M-rated", I'm buying "ultra-violent", big deal.

Your whole "free speech" thing is kind of a bunch of crap. Free speech shouldn't extend to you putting super violent video games into the hands of 13 year olds. Sorry.
Uh, this law doesn't stop 13 year olds from getting the games either. The parents can still buy GTA for little Jimmy if they want to. This law does nothing but limit what can and can't go into a video game. It has nothing to do with this "think of the children" crap. It's a device to say that video games are merely toys and not artistic expression.

The issue is distribution and sales. If K-mart, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, Sears etc... decide that the $1000 dollar fines are too big of a hit to their bottom line, guess who stops stocking "ultra violent" games? And when the video game publishers see that the largest retailers are not stocking "ultra violent" games, they stop funding their development as there's not enough return on investment. Thus no more "ultra violent" video games. Remember that "ultra violent" could contain stuff that's currently rated E 10+ or T, not just Manhunt or GTA or RDR or Halo or any superhero game or... Remember Ao rated games? See any around anymore? Nobody will sell them so nobody will make them.

California Civil Code sections 1746-1746.5 said:
(the Act) prohibit the sale or rental of "violent video games" to minors under 18. The Act defines a "violent video game" as one that depicts "killing, maiming, dismembering, or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in a manner that meets all of the following requirements: (1) A reasonable person, considering the game as a whole, would find that it appeals to a deviant or morbid interest of minors; (2) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the community as to what is suitable for minors, and; (3) it causes the game, as a whole, to lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors. The Act does not prohibit a minor's parent or guardian from purchasing or renting such games for the minor. Pet. App. 96a.
This is how "ultra violent" video game is defined under this law. Vague no?

Why not simply enforce the ESRB ratings with fines? Because it's not about keeping little Jimmy from virtual violence, it's about making video games toys and not free expression of ideas like movies, music, art, TV, comics, books etc... and don't deserve the protection those versions of free expression do.

Not only would simply adding fines to the ESRB ratings be just as effective as this law. This would would not require rewriting the 1st amendment, hiring a government board to rate games and hiring more civil servants to write up the tickets (ie: spending a ton of money on stuff they don't have the money to spend on) as the ratings are already done (by the ESRB) and enforcement can go to the FTC.

This "think of the children" crap is what the government is banking on to make this work. It's a decoy to make you look over there while I plunder your rights over here. If it was about the children, the law would simply enforce what's already there, and nobody would be complaining. It's why Canada and the UK seem to do fine with laws governing the sale of Mature content to minors and this US law has everyone up in arms. The Canadian and UK laws simply enforce the existing ratings system as law, they don't try to tell the developers what they can make or the publishers what they may publish. Which seems to be the more logical choice here? Hmm...
Thank you for a well thought out post (rather than just another Kotick bashing).

Folks - take a look at what's been going on in Australia. Look what happens when gov't steps in and starts deciding what YOU can and cannot purchase. Yes, you think that because you're 17+ you won't be impacted? As PEngine so elloquently demonstrated, you will absolutely be affected, and it may not stop at video games if this passes. You may eventually find other areas of your "entertainment" being impacted.

Oh, and this same logic could be applied to all of you Kotick haters...if you don't like the guy, quit buying his games, eventually the board of directors and (we) shareholders will toss him on his ass. Personally, I have no problem with how he runs the company. I don't necessarily enjoy what he says about gaming and how he treats some development studios, but I do enjoy the fact that my investment in his company is not floundering.
 

the lapalminator

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finally kotic says something that is not compeltely evil. proves that foes and friends alike can gather to fight a greater evil
 

SeanTheSheep

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Gralian said:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend has never rang more true. I guess now the idiotic politicians are going to feel what it's like to have Satan as an enemy in court.
Wow, Satan must be having one hell of a crisis right now on who to help. His long established buddies, or his one of his most profitable pawns?
Also, I hate to be a Grammar Nazi, but I think it's "has never rung truer" it trips off the tongue better, but I can't really think of any arguments off the top of my head other than syntax.

OT: Well, as much as I hate Kotick, he makes a fair point.
 

Ekonk

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The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

BUT ONCE THIS LAW IS GONE HE'LL BE MY ENEMY AGAIN, MAKE NO MISTAKE
 

Macgyvercas

Spice & Wolf Restored!
Feb 19, 2009
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Yes I know he has a motive for doing this, but seriously, Bobby Kottick saying something that DOESN'T make me want to strangle him?????

Mind = Blown

the lapalminator said:
finally kotic says something that is not compeltely evil. proves that foes and friends alike can gather to fight a greater evil
You aren't familiar with the Eberron Campagin in D&D, are you? That happens quite often.

Ekonk said:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

BUT ONCE THIS LAW IS GONE HE'LL BE MY ENEMY AGAIN, MAKE NO MISTAKE
Also, this.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Cynical skeptic said:
Yea... hes really only saying that because it would greatly impact activision's most successful properties.

Speaking of, thats a pretty loaded week. ACTA on the 30th, defacto game banning on the 2nd.

I didn't think 1984 would come so suddenly!
I did, I was posting mainly on www.palladiumbooks.com (Sound Off Forum) back during the last election when it came to politics. Though I said some things here as well. I saw this coming if Obama was elected. He's only a tiny piece of it though. See, you have to understand that in order to win the last election The Democrats instituted some rather draconian policies to force everyone into line under one banner and end dissent over big issues. The biggest compromise was the one made to give Hillary a big-bad cabinet position in return for her ceasing to contest Obama as the party's presidential cantidate and bring her "Clintonistas" in fully behind him. Video game censorship being one of Hillary's *BIG* issues which many people might remember going back to the whole "Hot Coffee" scandal.

See, the entire issue goes cross party. In both parties there are people who despite their label lean far to the other wing. The problem here is that with the Democratic party being told to close ranks irregardless of personal beliefs, or get out, it means that the only REAL opposition has been the Republicans who were against this kind of thing. It's the Republicans in favor AND the Democrats acting in a degree of forced consert doing this.

This is largely because the last election became a grudge match, The Democrats ceased to be concerned about right and wrong, and only with getting people in power. That might seem like politics as usual, but it isn't because Politicians fight each other constantly, and one of the big issues with the Democratic party and it's big "excuse" during both of the very close "Bush" elections was that it was too fragmented and spent too much time bickering about petty things like what the goverment should actually be doing. :p

As a result what was another crazy boogieman to blame bigger problems on, became a national issue on this level despite the fact that it seems crazy given the current track record. It's also noteworthy that what makes this scary is that especially on the federal side of things that there are so many politicials working on concert over an issue like this, it's almost unprecedented. It's because in a polarized country a full half of our political system is being forced to play "follow the leader" or risk getting booted. Dissent within the party happens, but not like it has before, which has made things very unhealthy.

It should also be noted that getting it's hooks into our free speech rights has been a big deal with Democrats who want a powerful federal goverment for a long time. Where they start the snowball rolling is more or less irrelevent, once they snag their hook and get the acknowlegement that the goverment CAN directly regulate free speech and the media in any context, they can work to applying it to other things. Typically this battle has been fought over things like "Hate Speech" with moves being made to have say using certain racial slurs or expressing certain politicial or racial sentiments to be criminal acts in of themselves, rather than damage (directly trying to get people to attack each other) needing to be proven. While perhaps well intentioned by many of the people involved, I have never been naive enough to think that the people pushing for such things are unaware of the power involved or what they could wind up using it for.

I mention multi-pronged attacks with some frequency. ACTA, the current case (despite being started by a Republican... albiet one married into a massive democratic dynasty and professed social liberal), hate speech, and Obama's bit about tying the media (especially video games) into health problems among the youth and saying it should be regulated for that reason (I'm not kidding, look it up, I think The Escapist covered it too). They all basically go to the same place: give the goverment the power to control information and limit free speech. Anyone who was following this should have seen it coming with the way things were playing out. All they need is for one of these seemingly unrelated shots to hit, and bringing the others in become easier, and they can gradually adapt the power to anything they want through precedent over a period of time.

Win or lose here, I expect we'll keep seeing the same issues return in some way as long as the political climate stays the same.

Right now, we need to see the current attacks stopped. We also need to get the Democrats out of power until their party gets it's act back together. Right now what any paticular Democrat might think is more or less irrelevent since he's going to be pulled into line with the "faces" of the party. Dissent happens, but it is very difficult compared to what it has been.

When the current policies stop, and the Democrats get back into a more balanced "business as usual" way of acting with various points of view throughout the party, then people can relax a bit.

Despite being by and large right wing, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of whack jobs on that side too who should be avoided. While I mostly vote "right" I have gone cross party for specific politicians in the past. However, right now I think the only people that can be safely voted for are ironically Republican, or if the Republican is psycho, a third party cantidate. You can have the greatest and most pro-free speech Democrat in the world right now and it's unlikely what he thinks is going to matter because he's going to be forced by his own people to do what he's told or get out of politics.

Apologies for the lengthy political rant, in short the whole point of this is that I saw this coming (honestly), and to solve the problem is going to be difficult.

See, for all of my various sentiments, I typically tell people to vote the person and not the party. Joining a political party is mostly useful to vote in primary elections among the side you think will have more people who generally agree with you (and thus you usually wind up voting mostly for that side to begin with). The problem is that right now it's been made so that you can't do that for all practical purposes.
 

Rad Party God

Party like it's 2010!
Feb 23, 2010
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It's good to know we have such a behemoth backing up the dismissal of that stupid law, but that'll never, ever going to change my mind on how I see Activision (not Blizzard).
 

Burningsok

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He's just worried about his money, at least he sides with us... sorta.

We can deal with Kotick later. Right now we can use his influence to our advantage.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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108Stitches said:
Physics Engine said:
rockyoumonkeys said:
Okay, so you've explained all that, I still don't see where it even affects me. Instead of buying "M-rated", I'm buying "ultra-violent", big deal.

Your whole "free speech" thing is kind of a bunch of crap. Free speech shouldn't extend to you putting super violent video games into the hands of 13 year olds. Sorry.
Uh, this law doesn't stop 13 year olds from getting the games either. The parents can still buy GTA for little Jimmy if they want to. This law does nothing but limit what can and can't go into a video game. It has nothing to do with this "think of the children" crap. It's a device to say that video games are merely toys and not artistic expression.

The issue is distribution and sales. If K-mart, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, Sears etc... decide that the $1000 dollar fines are too big of a hit to their bottom line, guess who stops stocking "ultra violent" games? And when the video game publishers see that the largest retailers are not stocking "ultra violent" games, they stop funding their development as there's not enough return on investment. Thus no more "ultra violent" video games. Remember that "ultra violent" could contain stuff that's currently rated E 10+ or T, not just Manhunt or GTA or RDR or Halo or any superhero game or... Remember Ao rated games? See any around anymore? Nobody will sell them so nobody will make them.

California Civil Code sections 1746-1746.5 said:
(the Act) prohibit the sale or rental of "violent video games" to minors under 18. The Act defines a "violent video game" as one that depicts "killing, maiming, dismembering, or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in a manner that meets all of the following requirements: (1) A reasonable person, considering the game as a whole, would find that it appeals to a deviant or morbid interest of minors; (2) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the community as to what is suitable for minors, and; (3) it causes the game, as a whole, to lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors. The Act does not prohibit a minor's parent or guardian from purchasing or renting such games for the minor. Pet. App. 96a.
This is how "ultra violent" video game is defined under this law. Vague no?

Why not simply enforce the ESRB ratings with fines? Because it's not about keeping little Jimmy from virtual violence, it's about making video games toys and not free expression of ideas like movies, music, art, TV, comics, books etc... and don't deserve the protection those versions of free expression do.

Not only would simply adding fines to the ESRB ratings be just as effective as this law. This would would not require rewriting the 1st amendment, hiring a government board to rate games and hiring more civil servants to write up the tickets (ie: spending a ton of money on stuff they don't have the money to spend on) as the ratings are already done (by the ESRB) and enforcement can go to the FTC.

This "think of the children" crap is what the government is banking on to make this work. It's a decoy to make you look over there while I plunder your rights over here. If it was about the children, the law would simply enforce what's already there, and nobody would be complaining. It's why Canada and the UK seem to do fine with laws governing the sale of Mature content to minors and this US law has everyone up in arms. The Canadian and UK laws simply enforce the existing ratings system as law, they don't try to tell the developers what they can make or the publishers what they may publish. Which seems to be the more logical choice here? Hmm...
Thank you for a well thought out post (rather than just another Kotick bashing).

Folks - take a look at what's been going on in Australia. Look what happens when gov't steps in and starts deciding what YOU can and cannot purchase. Yes, you think that because you're 17+ you won't be impacted? As PEngine so elloquently demonstrated, you will absolutely be affected, and it may not stop at video games if this passes. You may eventually find other areas of your "entertainment" being impacted.

Oh, and this same logic could be applied to all of you Kotick haters...if you don't like the guy, quit buying his games, eventually the board of directors and (we) shareholders will toss him on his ass. Personally, I have no problem with how he runs the company. I don't necessarily enjoy what he says about gaming and how he treats some development studios, but I do enjoy the fact that my investment in his company is not floundering.

I've mentioned the bit about not buying Kotick's games myself, but given that people act like drug addicts, he treats them like them. I think when "Modern Warfare: Black Ops." comes out it's sort of going to prove that point. I am all for capitolism, but there is a point where I think you take exploiting the consumers too far.

Also the fact that Kotick is out for himself is pretty obvious, there is nothing good about these changes from the perspective of a businessman selling video games.

As I have pointed out (and just at some length in this thread as a political rant) this has been going on for a while actually. In the end this isn't about video games, your hitting the money right on the head that the whole "protect the children" thing is simply a way of trying to sell a power grab. Once the goverment gets the abillity to regulate free speech this way through the criminal system, it WILL snowball to other things through precedent. Look at what happened with cases like "Mapp Vs. Ohio" and the actual effect they wound up having over a period of decades.... things totally unintended by the original precedent, and also incidently contrary to the intents of our founding fathers who left behind examples of how they expected our "protection against unreasonable searches and seizures" to work. Albiet in that case it's one of those situations where the ruling actually limited goverment power, as opposed to expanding it (as this will). The point I'm making is about the sweeping nature of the changes.

As far as the ESRB goes, I thought it DID have the abillity to level fines already as part of the contracts retailers signed to sell the products. Part of the complaint and the reasoning behind the current case is that it's not working. The people pushing for the current changes basically argueing that any safeguards in place should not be a voluntary thing that helps, but something "ironclad" where nobody outside of that system should have to do anything (like parent) in addition to it. Utterly ridiculous both in concept and in a practical sense, no system the goverment puts into place is going to be any more effective.

Truthfully if this passes through the supreme court, I expect the first major "strike" we're going to notice when it starts snowballing is the goverment using the ruling to get it's hands into The Internet more tightly so it can regulate things like digital distribution and video game sales via mail order more directly, with all kinds of changes being forced and freedoms removed/limited to give them a practical chance of doing it. The goverment has already been chomping at the bit for things like this for a while.... as I've said, this isn't about the games, it's about power, and using games as the springboard/excuse to grab a ton of it.
 

Cynical skeptic

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Therumancer said:
Dude.

The two party system is a complete illusion right now. Both the GOP and the democratic party want the exact same things, the only real difference is how they'll try to get it. Governmental empowerment or corporate empowerment.

Your rights haven't been a real issue for a long, long time. The only way to maintain your rights is to keep switching back and forth between parties, as while their goals are identical, their methods are contradictory. So long as the GOP doesn't try something impossibly stupid like "PALIN FOR PRESIDENT" IN '12, switching over shouldn't be too difficult. As thanks to all the aggressive counter-spin (like blaming obama for W's mess) no one really remembers why they voted for Obama. I do, though. Network neutrality. Something ACTA has the power to end.
 

Vanguard_Ex

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Mar 19, 2008
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Fuck yeah Kotick! I don't care if he is doing this to look good, he's still doing something mutually beneficial to us all.
 

Inglonias

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The enemy of my enemy is my other enemy.
Wait...

Glad we have such a powerful company on a third side that happens to agree with us for evil reasons.
 

Burningsok

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Therumancer said:
108Stitches said:
Physics Engine said:
rockyoumonkeys said:
Okay, so you've explained all that, I still don't see where it even affects me. Instead of buying "M-rated", I'm buying "ultra-violent", big deal.

Your whole "free speech" thing is kind of a bunch of crap. Free speech shouldn't extend to you putting super violent video games into the hands of 13 year olds. Sorry.
Uh, this law doesn't stop 13 year olds from getting the games either. The parents can still buy GTA for little Jimmy if they want to. This law does nothing but limit what can and can't go into a video game. It has nothing to do with this "think of the children" crap. It's a device to say that video games are merely toys and not artistic expression.

The issue is distribution and sales. If K-mart, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, Sears etc... decide that the $1000 dollar fines are too big of a hit to their bottom line, guess who stops stocking "ultra violent" games? And when the video game publishers see that the largest retailers are not stocking "ultra violent" games, they stop funding their development as there's not enough return on investment. Thus no more "ultra violent" video games. Remember that "ultra violent" could contain stuff that's currently rated E 10+ or T, not just Manhunt or GTA or RDR or Halo or any superhero game or... Remember Ao rated games? See any around anymore? Nobody will sell them so nobody will make them.

California Civil Code sections 1746-1746.5 said:
(the Act) prohibit the sale or rental of "violent video games" to minors under 18. The Act defines a "violent video game" as one that depicts "killing, maiming, dismembering, or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in a manner that meets all of the following requirements: (1) A reasonable person, considering the game as a whole, would find that it appeals to a deviant or morbid interest of minors; (2) it is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the community as to what is suitable for minors, and; (3) it causes the game, as a whole, to lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors. The Act does not prohibit a minor's parent or guardian from purchasing or renting such games for the minor. Pet. App. 96a.
This is how "ultra violent" video game is defined under this law. Vague no?

Why not simply enforce the ESRB ratings with fines? Because it's not about keeping little Jimmy from virtual violence, it's about making video games toys and not free expression of ideas like movies, music, art, TV, comics, books etc... and don't deserve the protection those versions of free expression do.

Not only would simply adding fines to the ESRB ratings be just as effective as this law. This would would not require rewriting the 1st amendment, hiring a government board to rate games and hiring more civil servants to write up the tickets (ie: spending a ton of money on stuff they don't have the money to spend on) as the ratings are already done (by the ESRB) and enforcement can go to the FTC.

This "think of the children" crap is what the government is banking on to make this work. It's a decoy to make you look over there while I plunder your rights over here. If it was about the children, the law would simply enforce what's already there, and nobody would be complaining. It's why Canada and the UK seem to do fine with laws governing the sale of Mature content to minors and this US law has everyone up in arms. The Canadian and UK laws simply enforce the existing ratings system as law, they don't try to tell the developers what they can make or the publishers what they may publish. Which seems to be the more logical choice here? Hmm...
Thank you for a well thought out post (rather than just another Kotick bashing).

Folks - take a look at what's been going on in Australia. Look what happens when gov't steps in and starts deciding what YOU can and cannot purchase. Yes, you think that because you're 17+ you won't be impacted? As PEngine so elloquently demonstrated, you will absolutely be affected, and it may not stop at video games if this passes. You may eventually find other areas of your "entertainment" being impacted.

Oh, and this same logic could be applied to all of you Kotick haters...if you don't like the guy, quit buying his games, eventually the board of directors and (we) shareholders will toss him on his ass. Personally, I have no problem with how he runs the company. I don't necessarily enjoy what he says about gaming and how he treats some development studios, but I do enjoy the fact that my investment in his company is not floundering.

I've mentioned the bit about not buying Kotick's games myself, but given that people act like drug addicts, he treats them like them. I think when "Modern Warfare: Black Ops." comes out it's sort of going to prove that point. I am all for capitolism, but there is a point where I think you take exploiting the consumers too far.

Also the fact that Kotick is out for himself is pretty obvious, there is nothing good about these changes from the perspective of a businessman selling video games.

As I have pointed out (and just at some length in this thread as a political rant) this has been going on for a while actually. In the end this isn't about video games, your hitting the money right on the head that the whole "protect the children" thing is simply a way of trying to sell a power grab. Once the goverment gets the abillity to regulate free speech this way through the criminal system, it WILL snowball to other things through precedent. Look at what happened with cases like "Mapp Vs. Ohio" and the actual effect they wound up having over a period of decades.... things totally unintended by the original precedent, and also incidently contrary to the intents of our founding fathers who left behind examples of how they expected our "protection against unreasonable searches and seizures" to work. Albiet in that case it's one of those situations where the ruling actually limited goverment power, as opposed to expanding it (as this will). The point I'm making is about the sweeping nature of the changes.

As far as the ESRB goes, I thought it DID have the abillity to level fines already as part of the contracts retailers signed to sell the products. Part of the complaint and the reasoning behind the current case is that it's not working. The people pushing for the current changes basically argueing that any safeguards in place should not be a voluntary thing that helps, but something "ironclad" where nobody outside of that system should have to do anything (like parent) in addition to it. Utterly ridiculous both in concept and in a practical sense, no system the goverment puts into place is going to be any more effective.

Truthfully if this passes through the supreme court, I expect the first major "strike" we're going to notice when it starts snowballing is the goverment using the ruling to get it's hands into The Internet more tightly so it can regulate things like digital distribution and video game sales via mail order more directly, with all kinds of changes being forced and freedoms removed/limited to give them a practical chance of doing it. The goverment has already been chomping at the bit for things like this for a while.... as I've said, this isn't about the games, it's about power, and using games as the springboard/excuse to grab a ton of it.
God dammit your right. If I knew you in real life, I would shake your hand good sir.
 

The Stonker

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Feb 26, 2009
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Ranooth said:
That's nice Bobby, we all still think your a twat . .
Hear,hear!

Do you know what the luxury is of living in Iceland? :D
No fucking politicians trying to take away your pleasure.
So gamers come here to Iceland, we might be expensive but hell,we got some pretty women and some pretty desktops :D