Bodies in video games

Recommended Videos

briankoontz

New member
May 17, 2010
654
0
0
We talk quite a lot about breasts, their precise size, how they move and how much of them is shown by the developer. It's a distraction from the much more important issue of how bodies in general are designed in video games.

People in real life typically look nothing like video game characters. There is a shininess, an artificial fluidity in all video game characters that does not reflect the solidity (even in a skeletal Kate Moss) of actual humans. This is also shown by the computer graphics effects in movies.

The larger issue is the ridiculousness of physique in video games. According to the World Health Organization, 33.9% of American adults are obese, while 8 other countries in the world have an even higher rate of obesity. Globally, 7.4% of people are obese, while 2.7 billion people in the world live on less than $2 a day in income and are thus (generally) too poor for obesity to be an option.

Even though video games are heavily inspired by the United States and Europe, obesity has not been much of an inspiration for game developers, if the typical tight, supple, well muscled bodies of especially game protagonists but also to a substantial extent other characters is any indication. It's also very interesting that game protagonists have a considerably greater physique than other characters in the game, especially their victims, who are often depicted as scrawny or normal (ala the undead fodder such as skeletons and zombies or usually the hapless 3rd world soldiers in military shooters). This is a bit reminiscent of well-fed and conditioned Arian Nazi guards murdering ravaged starving Jews, gypsies, or disableds, who often looked like human skeletons, in other words "monsters", prior to being cleansed by the Nazi protagonists, a small difference being that the Nazi guards were not sporting enough to give the human skeletons a weapon prior to cutting them down.

The other primary issue is age. The median age of humans in the real world is 26.4. The median age of humans in some of the most influential countries for game developers, lets say the United States, Japan, Germany, and the United Kingdom, is 36.9, 44.6, 43.7, and 40.5, respectively.

What's the median age of video game characters? I doubt anyone's researched it, but my sense is maybe the mid to high 20s, with Japanese developers being noted for using very young characters in their games. In particular game protagonists are quite young - even playing a middle aged one such as in The Walking Dead or The Last of Us is strange for gamers. Playing an elderly one would cause most of us to fall out of our chairs in shock and the rest to congratulate themselves for not doing so.

Let's look at this a bit deeper. Game engines, as John Carmack understands them, are like race cars - the whole point is to make them fast, sleek, and responsive, or "sexy" as he would put it. Fat isn't sexy, old isn't sexy. Young, well-conditioned, supple, tight, 6-packed, surgically crafted, etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have an engine built on the philosophy of well-conditioned youth and then populate it with people who don't fit the bill.

Something even more interesting emerges when we consider the history of video games. For much of gaming's history, game graphics simply couldn't render a "tight, young, supple" human physique. The game could still have one, as described in the manual and imagined by the player, but it couldn't show it. And, strangely enough, THEREFORE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I'm straining to think of a single game, even a single one, which had a Lara Croft, Dante, Bayonetta, or Kratos prior to them being able to be graphically rendered as such. Games with primitive graphics which could still render physique, such as the original arcade version of Gauntlet, did not present even the Warrior as anything like Kratos or Dante - really just a beefy lumberjacky guy - the kind of guy one would expect as a warrior.

Just as the not-so-wise John Carmack engaged the game industry in a race for the sexiest engine, game developers of today are in a race for the sexiest possible renderable game protagonist - so Bayonetta battles Lara Croft while Dante battles Kratos and bi-gender Shepard battles sanity.

And game reviewers and "critics" get up on their soapbox to once again talk about boobs, now in Dragon's Crown. Boobs and how they are shown and how that is or is not so fucking terrible. Some fools just can't see the forest for the trees.
 

Phrozenflame500

New member
Dec 26, 2012
1,080
0
0
Sorry, what's your point here? That people in video games aren't photo-real? Because we know that already.

Also, did you just compare the general attractiveness disparity between protagonists and antagonists to the Nazis? Because... uh... comparisons on the internet to the Nazis tends to be at best hyperbolic.
 

Specter Von Baren

Annoying Green Gadfly
Legacy
Aug 25, 2013
5,637
2,862
118
I don't know, send help!
Country
USA
Gender
Cuttlefish
Jimmy T. Malice said:
I'm not entirely sure what we're meant to be discussing here.
I'm not either. Especially since this is hardly a video-game issue. Look at cartoons or T.V. shows or movies. Even books, things without visuals, often won't follow an old character or an ugly one.

I remember how some of the people making the movie Up, used the idea that it would do well with an old man as the main character because kids would relate with him like they would with a grandpa, in order to "sell it" as a viable movie.

Further, think about the amount of time people can devote to these sorts of things. In the case of age, the people that are most likely to have time to indulge in enjoying media like this are those that are young and those that are old. The likely reason (I think, with no study or data to back myself up) that stories typically follow younger people is because those are the people that are more likely to enjoy this or that medium. The people that you talk about that do a lot of the heavy lifting in society are... doing a lot of the heavy lifting in society. Those people are more busy doing things to effect change than they are spending time off to watch a movie.

Even beyond that, most people tend to look back more fondly on the days when they were young, so even in the cases where someone that is in that age group of really making changes in society, they probably would prefer to enjoy something that makes reminds them of a less stressful time when they didn't have as many responsibilities.

I know from my Japanese Pop Culture class that the reason a lot of "cutesy" and "childish" things are popular in Japan is because they have a culture that focuses a lot more on work and preparing kids for work. The young people are expected to already be planning out their future's as adults and so they don't get as much of those carefree days that we in America take for granted. So reminding them of things associated with youth is really popular.

Anyway, I might just be rambling, and keep in mind that this is just me talking without really pondering this too much so some of it may be really off.
 

Dirty Hipsters

This is how we praise the sun!
Legacy
Feb 7, 2011
9,035
3,715
118
Country
'Merica
Gender
3 children in a trench coat
This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

You know why most video game protagonists are fit twenty somethings? Because fit twenty somethings are the only ones who could be expected to pull off most of the things that video game protagonists do! Do you really expect an overweight or old protagonist to scale mountains like Lara Croft, or run around rooftops stabbing people like Ezio? Of course not, their bodies aren't built for action, they're built for sitting around watching TV, something that wouldn't make a very good game.

So if you really wanted to make all video game characters more "realistic" looking by your standards, then the actions that they're performing would seem even more unrealistic than they already do. When an athletic looking Nathan Drake scales a massive temple wall it's believable, when a tubby guy does it, not so much.
 

Miss G.

New member
Jun 18, 2013
535
0
0
Dirty Hipsters said:
This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

You know why most video game protagonists are fit twenty somethings? Because fit twenty somethings are the only ones who could be expected to pull off most of the things that video game protagonists do! Do you really expect an overweight or old protagonist to scale mountains like Lara Croft, or run around rooftops stabbing people like Ezio? Of course not, their bodies aren't built for action, they're built for sitting around watching TV, something that wouldn't make a very good game.

So if you really wanted to make all video game characters more "realistic" looking by your standards, then the actions that they're performing would seem even more unrealistic than they already do. When an athletic looking Nathan Drake scales a massive temple wall it's believable, when a tubby guy does it, not so much.
I wouldn't have called it that, but I do concur with the rest of your sentiment. Its kinda like Ninja Warrior (original Sasuke or the American version); people that are into parkour, rock climbing, work jobs that require being fit (fire fighting, certain types of commercial fishing, stunt people, gymnasts etc) are the ones that usually don't fall off the first obstacle and go far, barring stupid mistakes or underestimating the course. Sure you get the odd really old person, like Mr. Octopus, who will be a fan fave just because he really tries and its a momentous occasion when he makes it further than a few steps, or maybe a fat guy/girl with something to prove to others/themselves, but they don't do well because they're not fit for what they're trying to accomplish and it shows, though that's not to say that being overly muscled means they'll go far either, more than likely they're too heavy and/or too slow to get ahead of their lighter competitors. So, with this in mind, video games aren't all that unrealistic in this regard.
 

Dirty Hipsters

This is how we praise the sun!
Legacy
Feb 7, 2011
9,035
3,715
118
Country
'Merica
Gender
3 children in a trench coat
Miss G. said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

You know why most video game protagonists are fit twenty somethings? Because fit twenty somethings are the only ones who could be expected to pull off most of the things that video game protagonists do! Do you really expect an overweight or old protagonist to scale mountains like Lara Croft, or run around rooftops stabbing people like Ezio? Of course not, their bodies aren't built for action, they're built for sitting around watching TV, something that wouldn't make a very good game.

So if you really wanted to make all video game characters more "realistic" looking by your standards, then the actions that they're performing would seem even more unrealistic than they already do. When an athletic looking Nathan Drake scales a massive temple wall it's believable, when a tubby guy does it, not so much.
I concur. Its kinda like Ninja Warrior (original Sasuke or the American version); people that are into parkour, rock climbing, work jobs that require being fit (fire fighting, certain types of commercial fishing, stunt people, gymnasts etc) are the ones that usually don't fall off the first obstacle and go far, barring stupid mistakes or underestimating the course. Sure you get the odd really old person, like Mr. Octopus, who will be a fan fave just because he really tries and its a momentous occasion when he makes it further than a few steps, or maybe a fat guy/girl with something to prove to others/themselves, but they don't do well because they're not fit for what they're trying to accomplish and it shows, though that's not to say that being overly muscled means they'll go far either, more than likely they're too heavy and/or too slow to get ahead of their lighter competitors. So, with this in mind, video games aren't all that unrealistic in this regard.
Ninja Warrior is actually exactly what I was thinking about as well. Everyone in the Ninja Warrior competitions has essentially the same body type, very lean, low body fat percentage, with dense but not bulky muscle. Anyone who doesn't fit that body type doesn't make it past stage 3, and most don't make it past stage one.

So in that regard, there's really only two different body types for men in action oriented video games that would make sense for all the crazy stuff they'd need to pull off.

This is what video game protagonists should look like when they're expected to be agile and good at climbing or acrobatics:


And this is what they should look like when they're expected to be strong and capable of lifting a lot:


Body types outside of these really wouldn't be realistic in a video game context.

That's the thing, people with "normal" body types, are people who do normal things, have normal jobs, and who don't go on crazy video game adventures.
 

briankoontz

New member
May 17, 2010
654
0
0
The only genre, among the several in gaming, that features a variety of body types for the main character beyond "young, tight, supple", is survival horror, and even then it's usually a young adult or at most a young/middle aged fit character as the protagonist. Games which have a great deal of body customization *can* sometimes have skinny, obese, or old main characters, but at the logical expense of this having zero effect on anything in the game beyond the aesthetics of the main character. Fat and old characters aren't slower, for example, and are responded to the same way by NPCs.

The responses so far in this thread (the two following the first) are rather ridiculous, since there's as much or more to discuss with respect to the topic raised than the hundreds of responses to "boobs in games" threads, for example. The responses can be translated as "we'd rather not discuss the topic because it makes us uncomfortable". At this point you should be asking yourself why the subject makes you uncomfortable. Consider this reply I'm making now as a possible additional response to the thread, of which countless potential others could occur if gamers can overcome their fear. We'll see whether that happens.

The Nazis didn't have to starve their prisoners prior to killing them - it would have been a lot cheaper to just kill them. The point of starving them was to turn them visually into "monsters", to contrast them against the well-conditioned, well-fed Nazi soldiers, in order to provide psychic justification for the murders.

This is the precise same psychic justification that video games use with respect to the undead. Gamers see a skeleton - they think, "that's not right, skeletons are supposed to be dead, not alive", and then they proceed to make things right by making the skeleton dead and not alive. Just like Nazis looked at the skeletal prisoners in their concentration camps and thought "that's not right, skeletons are supposed to be dead, not alive", and then proceeded to make things right by making the skeletons dead and not alive.

Cleansing is fascist, and games which feature global cleansing in order to "save the world" can hardly be distinguished from the Nazi project of - global cleansing in order to save the world.

It seems to me to make no sense to have rightfully disempowered Nazism in the real world only to recreate it's ideology in virtual form and then to encourage gamers to celebrate themselves for engaging in it.

This is especially dangerous because fascist cleansing is very much ongoing in the real world, as the unfortunate black ex-inhabitants of New Orleans discovered in it's recent whitewashing, as Palestinians experience on a daily basis, as poor people across the US experience through active urban gentrification, as 400,000 hispanics a year deported from the US find out.

Between each other, some Zionists refer to Palestinians as monsters, and they would refer to them as monsters in the broader world if they could get away with it. These Zionists are saving Israel, aka "saving the world" from monsters by either killing them, rooting them out, or heavily exploiting them. Farming them for XP, in other words.

Since 80% of mainstream games feature killing as the primary form of gameplay, and this killing is based on the ideology of cleansing, and cleansing is fascist, this raises the question of what the value is of having gamers engaging in fascist ideology in virtual space on a regular basis, particularly when that engagement is deemed successful when the fascist project is successful - when the world is cleansed, for all the monsters to be killed.

Why doesn't the gamer ever ask the question of where the "monsters" came from? What are these "monsters"? What is the significance of their anger? So many questions, but the game just gives the player a sword and tells him to start killing, that his killing is righteous, that he will get more powerful as he kills more "monsters", that his power-gaining is awesome and he should embrace it, and that at the end of the slaughter when all the "monsters" are dead he will have won the game.

What game is being played here, exactly? Who is being killed? And who's the murderer?
 

briankoontz

New member
May 17, 2010
654
0
0
Dirty Hipsters said:
This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

You know why most video game protagonists are fit twenty somethings? Because fit twenty somethings are the only ones who could be expected to pull off most of the things that video game protagonists do! Do you really expect an overweight or old protagonist to scale mountains like Lara Croft, or run around rooftops stabbing people like Ezio? Of course not, their bodies aren't built for action, they're built for sitting around watching TV, something that wouldn't make a very good game.

So if you really wanted to make all video game characters more "realistic" looking by your standards, then the actions that they're performing would seem even more unrealistic than they already do. When an athletic looking Nathan Drake scales a massive temple wall it's believable, when a tubby guy does it, not so much.
Who says that action games need to dominate gaming? There's lots of room for an expansion of social games, for example, which would make great use of a variety of human forms. And as many people discover in real life, people can have action adventures with pretty much any body type, merely with different levels of quality of execution.

I agree with you that the character form should fit the reality of what's happening. But this begs the question of why only things which are done by highly fit people are deemed worthy of being made into video games. Why not have an action adventure with a chubby guy who can't scale mountains or run around rooftops stabbing people? Why does everything have to be SUPER-POWERED?

Lara Croft does not need to be beautiful in the context of the game, merely fit. Likewise Dante does not need to look like a top tier male model in the context of the actions of the game.

I'm really enjoying Gone Home right now, it's scaring the crap out of me and that's precisely because I'm playing as a normal human being who would probably die if an attacker showed up and I couldn't successfully flee. If I had Lara Croft's gun mastery or Dante's sword skills all the drama and tension would be gone.
 

Specter Von Baren

Annoying Green Gadfly
Legacy
Aug 25, 2013
5,637
2,862
118
I don't know, send help!
Country
USA
Gender
Cuttlefish
briankoontz said:
The only genre, among the several in gaming, that features a variety of body types for the main character beyond "young, tight, supple", is survival horror, and even then it's usually a young adult or at most a young/middle aged fit character as the protagonist. Games which have a great deal of body customization *can* sometimes have skinny, obese, or old main characters, but at the logical expense of this having zero effect on anything in the game beyond the aesthetics of the main character. Fat and old characters aren't slower, for example, and are responded to the same way by NPCs.

The responses so far in this thread (the two following the first) are rather ridiculous, since there's as much or more to discuss with respect to the topic raised than the hundreds of responses to "boobs in games" threads, for example. The responses can be translated as "we'd rather not discuss the topic because it makes us uncomfortable". At this point you should be asking yourself why the subject makes you uncomfortable. Consider this reply I'm making now as a possible additional response to the thread, of which countless potential others could occur if gamers can overcome their fear. We'll see whether that happens.
I'd rather people not label me with assumptions. I, and I'm fairly certain Jimmy as well, was talking about not understanding what we're supposed to discuss in that there's no real conclusion to the OP that talks about what you're getting at or what you want to talk about with this. The OP seems more like, "I've observed this", and then it just ends and I look at it and say, "Yeah... that's a thing alright.... And?" There's no thesis statement.

briankoontz said:
The Nazis didn't have to starve their prisoners prior to killing them - it would have been a lot cheaper to just kill them. The point of starving them was to turn them visually into "monsters", to contrast them against the well-conditioned, well-fed Nazi soldiers, in order to provide psychic justification for the murders.
Eh?.... What? No... no that's not why, where are you getting this idea? The reason for not feeding the prisoners is because feeding them requires resources and a lot of the rhetoric and strategies concerning the invasion of the Soviet Union was that it would be easy, the people there were subhuman, and other such things. Most soldier didn't even go to concentration camps, some didn't even know they existed. Most of the stuff that the German army was involved with in terms of the extermination of Jews and other minorities WAS just outright murder. I remember a story about how Jews were lined up in a wide pit, side by side and then an officer going down the line shooting them in the back of the head and then once that was done they'd move another line in. My point is, not feeding them wasn't the justification, it was the effect of the justification.

briankoontz said:
This is the precise same psychic justification that video games use with respect to the undead. Gamers see a skeleton - they think, "that's not right, skeletons are supposed to be dead, not alive", and then they proceed to make things right by making the skeleton dead and not alive. Just like Nazis looked at the skeletal prisoners in their concentration camps and thought "that's not right, skeletons are supposed to be dead, not alive", and then proceeded to make things right by making the skeletons dead and not alive.
Where are you getting this bogus information? I don't claim to know what people are thinking but did you ever think that the more likely response to seeing a skeleton walking around is, "HOLY CRAP! That's not supposed to happen, that's scary and not normal" and then when the skeleton starts attempting to attack them, they think, "Destroy it before it kills me!" Where is your pseudo-psychology coming from?

briankoontz said:
Cleansing is fascist, and games which feature global cleansing in order to "save the world" can hardly be distinguished from the Nazi project of - global cleansing in order to save the world.

It seems to me to make no sense to have rightfully disempowered Nazism in the real world only to recreate it's ideology in virtual form and then to encourage gamers to celebrate themselves for engaging in it.
No.... no there is a clear line between the two. Are you seriously comparing something like an undead monster brought back to life only for the purpose to kill someone and that has no will of its own is the same as someone going into a person's home and taking him away to be brutalized and killed when they've done nothing to you?

I know this might get me flagged but what the hell is wrong with you?

briankoontz said:
This is especially dangerous because fascist cleansing is very much ongoing in the real world,
I'm bringing this up only once and then dropping it but I have to bring it up because this immediately made me think of this.

"It?s especially troubling in-light of the serious real life epidemic of violence against women facing the female population on this planet. Every 9 seconds a woman is assaulted or beaten in the United States and on average more than three women are murdered by their boyfriends husbands, or ex-partners every single day."

briankoontz said:
as the unfortunate black ex-inhabitants of New Orleans discovered in it's recent whitewashing, as Palestinians experience on a daily basis, as poor people across the US experience through active urban gentrification, as 400,000 hispanics a year deported from the US find out.

Between each other, some Zionists refer to Palestinians as monsters, and they would refer to them as monsters in the broader world if they could get away with it. These Zionists are saving Israel, aka "saving the world" from monsters by either killing them, rooting them out, or heavily exploiting them. Farming them for XP, in other words.

Since 80% of mainstream games feature killing as the primary form of gameplay, and this killing is based on the ideology of cleansing, and cleansing is fascist, this raises the question of what the value is of having gamers engaging in fascist ideology in virtual space on a regular basis, particularly when that engagement is deemed successful when the fascist project is successful - when the world is cleansed, for all the monsters to be killed.
........... Oh my freaking God. First violence, then misogyny, and now fascism. It's true, people will blame games for anything.

briankoontz said:
Why doesn't the gamer ever ask the question of where the "monsters" came from? What are these "monsters"? What is the significance of their anger? So many questions, but the game just gives the player a sword and tells him to start killing, that his killing is righteous, that he will get more powerful as he kills more "monsters", that his power-gaining is awesome and he should embrace it, and that at the end of the slaughter when all the "monsters" are dead he will have won the game.

What game is being played here, exactly? Who is being killed? And who's the murderer?
Well... I can say this thread certainly has something to talk about now.
 

Maximum Bert

New member
Feb 3, 2013
2,149
0
0
Dont get the point of this thread are you asking why dosent fiction resemble fact?

Designers make a choice when developing their game based on what they want to make and/or what they think will sell they are at liberty to create whatever they want (to an extent). They can ground it in reality if they want or totally ignore it.
 

Specter Von Baren

Annoying Green Gadfly
Legacy
Aug 25, 2013
5,637
2,862
118
I don't know, send help!
Country
USA
Gender
Cuttlefish
briankoontz said:
Who says that action games need to dominate gaming? There's lots of room for an expansion of social games, for example, which would make great use of a variety of human forms. And as many people discover in real life, people can have action adventures with pretty much any body type, merely with different levels of quality of execution.
....... It's not about "need" it's about what people want. Action games are popular because those are the games people buy. Just as puzzle games and the like are what people like to play on their phones and other portable devices. You don't just say, "Let's make this genre the popular one" it doesn't work that way.

briankoontz said:
I agree with you that the character form should fit the reality of what's happening. But this begs the question of why only things which are done by highly fit people are deemed worthy of being made into video games. Why not have an action adventure with a chubby guy who can't scale mountains or run around rooftops stabbing people? Why does everything have to be SUPER-POWERED?
.......... Worthy of being- what are you talking about?!

Are you saying you want more games that are like 'Don't Shit Your Pants'?!

http://www.kongregate.com/games/rete/dont-shit-your-pants

There you go. Overweight playable character with the goal simply being to not, as the title says, shit your pants. Look in awe as you attempt to open a door, revel in the excitement of pulling down your pants, see the glory of finally being able to crap!

briankoontz said:
Lara Croft does not need to be beautiful in the context of the game, merely fit. Likewise Dante does not need to look like a top tier male model in the context of the actions of the game.

I'm really enjoying Gone Home right now, it's scaring the crap out of me and that's precisely because I'm playing as a normal human being who would probably die if an attacker showed up and I couldn't successfully flee. If I had Lara Croft's gun mastery or Dante's sword skills all the drama and tension would be gone.
That's because it's a game about a normal house, the reason you aren't Dante is because there aren't demon's to slay. You play the game from first person too, how do you know what the PC even looks like?! The point of the game is to be a mundane, no thrills game that's just about picking up stuff, and reading and listening. Gone Home isn't even a horror game! The kind of game you're talking about is something like Fatal Frame or The Witch's House or Haunting Ground.

You're posts are baffling me.
 

Ihateregistering1

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,034
0
0
Specter Von Baren said:
briankoontz said:
Who says that action games need to dominate gaming? There's lots of room for an expansion of social games, for example, which would make great use of a variety of human forms. And as many people discover in real life, people can have action adventures with pretty much any body type, merely with different levels of quality of execution.
....... It's not about "need" it's about what people want. Action games are popular because those are the games people buy. Just as puzzle games and the like are what people like to play on their phones and other portable devices. You don't just say, "Let's make this genre the popular one" it doesn't work that way.

briankoontz said:
I agree with you that the character form should fit the reality of what's happening. But this begs the question of why only things which are done by highly fit people are deemed worthy of being made into video games. Why not have an action adventure with a chubby guy who can't scale mountains or run around rooftops stabbing people? Why does everything have to be SUPER-POWERED?
.......... Worthy of being- what are you talking about?!

Are you saying you want more games that are like 'Don't Shit Your Pants'?!

http://www.kongregate.com/games/rete/dont-shit-your-pants

There you go. Overweight playable character with the goal simply being to not, as the title says, shit your pants. Look in awe as you attempt to open a door, revel in the excitement of pulling down your pants, see the glory of finally being able to crap!

briankoontz said:
Lara Croft does not need to be beautiful in the context of the game, merely fit. Likewise Dante does not need to look like a top tier male model in the context of the actions of the game.

I'm really enjoying Gone Home right now, it's scaring the crap out of me and that's precisely because I'm playing as a normal human being who would probably die if an attacker showed up and I couldn't successfully flee. If I had Lara Croft's gun mastery or Dante's sword skills all the drama and tension would be gone.
That's because it's a game about a normal house, the reason you aren't Dante is because there aren't demon's to slay. You play the game from first person too, how do you know what the PC even looks like?! The point of the game is to be a mundane, no thrills game that's just about picking up stuff, and reading and listening. Gone Home isn't even a horror game! The kind of game you're talking about is something like Fatal Frame or The Witch's House or Haunting Ground.

You're posts are baffling me.
OP, whatever drugs you are on, I want some.

And Specter, thank you for posting "don't shit your pants", I laughed my ass off.
 

Vegosiux

New member
May 18, 2011
4,378
0
0
Dirty Hipsters said:
Do you really expect an overweight or old protagonist to scale mountains like Lara Croft, or run around rooftops stabbing people like Ezio? Of course not, their bodies aren't built for action, they're built for sitting around watching TV, something that wouldn't make a very good game.
Hey, there's a trope for that, actually! [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Acrofatic]

Now of course, as you said in your last paragraph, it wouldn't help with realism, because realistically, an obese person can't show you a good time, and by that I mean they're not likely to dash 100 meters under 10 seconds. Even if technically possible for an obese person to pull some impressive physical stunts (sumo wrestlers for example, those guys are way more agile than they look)

But I wanted to stuff that link into the thread.
 

-Dragmire-

King over my mind
Mar 29, 2011
2,821
0
0
briankoontz said:
Damn, guy.... You really have an axe to grind don't you? The posts you've made in previous threads really inform on your opinion here.

I'm not going to get into the issues of fictional mass death and your seeming conclusion that it has lead to people's apathy over real mass death. No constructive argument can be made between us on that point so I'd rather not get into it.

As for bodies types though, that's a major expense when creating diverse body types, especially in 3D. Quite a bit of time is spent in modeling, skinning, texturing, weight painting, rigging and animating/custom animating (obeise people walk quite differently than people of a more healthy physique) that the decision to create entirely different character models for random people is very hard to pitch to the publisher who wants enough quality to make the largest profit.
 

norashepard

New member
Mar 4, 2013
310
0
0
Not sure what's going on in this thread, but I will say that I kind of agree with OP in their call for more body types. Like, we don't need fatsos who can clear out a warzone, but it would be nice to see more varied body types.

For example: meth heads. They're skinny and wasted, but many of them can do just as much physical work as the rest of us. Why couldn't they be a lead (drug use notwithstanding)? Or a short woman? Most women in games are tall and thin, and in reality, most of these women wouldn't actually survive most of the situations in games, where a smaller more muscular woman would.

An actual game example would be The Walking Dead. Lee was hot as fuck, but he really didn't have to be. What if Kenny was the protagonist instead? It would still be just as believable, physically at least, and his skinny, slouched body is uncommon in most media. Of course we'd have to question why he became leader of the group, and all the racism wouldn't make sense, but that's irrelevant. Or further still, why not Doug? He's still shown to be physically capable, and perhaps even more capable then Lee as far as his problem solving skills go. Instead, we get incredibly handsome man # 642266734. Which I don't have too much of a problem with. I just wonder why it is assumed that that's the only body type.

Saints Row IV does this well (mostly on the male side of things). Gat is ripped, Matt is is a Twig, King is bulky, and Pierce has the prettyboy thing going on. Even the ladies have some variation, though much less. Kinzie is tiny and thin, Asha looks like she has muscle, and Shaundi alternatively has a surprisingly big body, or the body of someone who atrophies from a ton of drug use. Not one person has the same profile, whereas in games like Mass Effect, most of the crew members are ripped as shit or sleek and sexy. Or Krogan.

I doubt it would take THAT much from games to have more realistic depictions of people. Old Ezio was still just as cool as young Ezio. Bonnie in TWD was no less sympathetic for her gaunt features. Coach is my favorite character in L4D2, even though he isn't exactly leading man material. It can be done. Nobody seems to bother though.
 

schrodinger

New member
Jul 19, 2013
342
0
0
briankoontz said:
snippy
Nazi Stuff.
briankoontz said:
Snippy snip
More Nazi Stuff.


ok, first things first, you broke Godwin's law within the first post. That's got to be a record.

Second, i see no rhyme or reason to compare game developers choices to picking certain bodies for characters to nazis.

As others have pointed out most characters are doing stunts that no obese or elder person could do, like using tuned parkour skills to get around ancient cities/caves, to fight many battles constantly against high number of bad guys, or to simply out run a horde of zombies. Most video game protagonist have physically demanding jobs, and those within the age range of 20's through late 40's with lean, but not too bulky body build are likely to believably pull off their stunts. Besides the occasional exceptions, it's the developers choice of what body type they want and what they believe what will work best.
 

Zakarath

New member
Mar 23, 2009
1,244
0
0
Well, silly nazi hyperbole aside, the first thing you mention, the shininess, is pretty much due to because it looks fairly decent, and making the material more true-to-life is likely to either cost an infeasible amount of the artist's time or cost too much to render. And as mentioned above, creating more body types is much more expensive that taking bodies of the same build and modifying them slightly to make different characters. Even in Big-budget games like, say, Mass Effect, you have only a couple different bodies--if that--for each species. Pas that, the way characters are differentiated is their face, their texture, and their clothes. This isn't because BioWare are building a world populated only by perfect ubermensch; it's because that's all they can manage to create even on a significant budget. To claim that there's some secret agenda behind it is quite frankly paranoid.
 

skywolfblue

New member
Jul 17, 2011
1,510
0
0
briankoontz said:
Cleansing is fascist, and games which feature global cleansing in order to "save the world" can hardly be distinguished from the Nazi project of - global cleansing in order to save the world.
Wiping out Aliens is now Fascist?
Wiping out Zombies is Fascist?
Wiping out is Fascist?

There is a world of difference between "Killing another race because you don't like their beards" and "Wiping out an evil race of hellspawn zombies".

briankoontz said:
Since 80% of mainstream games feature killing as the primary form of gameplay, and this killing is based on the ideology of cleansing, and cleansing is fascist, this raises the question of what the value is of having gamers engaging in fascist ideology in virtual space on a regular basis, particularly when that engagement is deemed successful when the fascist project is successful - when the world is cleansed, for all the monsters to be killed.
No, most modern games have no racial "cleansing" ideology at all.
And more to the point, I haven't seen any games recently that make it your prerogative as the thin movie-star hero to go and wipe out the whole race of fat people.

Predominately featuring idealistic characters, is a long long way from a true racial cleansing.